3% vs. 20%

[Dogwood]

Ideally we can reach a point where Another K feels good about climbing Big K.

I say we kidnap, blindfold him, and drop him off in BSP with a park map, stack of LNT copies, pile of mattocks and Macleod's, multiple work gloves, megaphone, WAG BAG, and bottle of champanya, no alcohol of course.

[Another Kevin]

Ideally we can reach a point where Another K feels good about climbing Big K.

I say we kidnap, blindfold him, and drop him off in BSP with a park map, stack of LNT copies, pile of mattocks and Macleod's, multiple work gloves, megaphone, WAG BAG, and bottle of champanya, no alcohol of course.

Now I'm feeling bad again about phoning up a trail boss and giving my apologies for this weekend.

My knee is feeling a lot better, but humping gardening tools up 1600 feet of elevation might be pushing things, considering that I was using a cane and a knee brace for about three weeks and just ditched them a couple of days ago. They're doing vegetation control, some heavy blowdown removal, and waterbar maintenance on the Giant Ledge trail in the Catskills, so the tools would likely be shovel, loppers, saw and maybe a mattock, Pulaski, or rock lever. If I went, I'd feel compelled to do my part with the crew and wind up doing a Proverbs 16:18. It's really a struggle to convince myself that it would be foolish pride to go, not sloth to stay home.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/08/0...r-thru-hikers/

[Wyoming]

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/08/0...r-thru-hikers/

Good article.

[egilbe]

Its a real problem.

[Another Kevin]

Its a real problem.

Which specific problem have you chosen that picture to illustrate?

I see a large number of people in the photograph. Is that the problem to which you allude? If you expect to find solitude on a fine summer day, you will surely not find it atop a famous mountain that has a nontechnical approach unless extremely strict controls are put in place to exclude the public from it. I suspect that even without the A-T, BSP has enough visitors to gather quite a crowd on the summit of Katahdin, unless we assume that virtually all of the visitors who aspire to climb the mountain arrive via the Trail.

About a third of the people in the photograph appear to be treading, sitting or lying on non-durable surfaces. I say 'appear' because the perspective for many of them does not let me distinguish vegetation from rock amid the vegetation. There are only about half a dozen that I could say are definitely doing so. Is that the problem to which you allude? If so, the best solution might be to initiate a 'summit steward' program for public education. Were I a faster climber, or were a campsite somewhere near the treeline provided for such a steward, I might be tempted to volunteer for such duty occasionally. Alas, I am not a fast climber, so if I were expected to ascend from Katahdin Stream or Chimney Pond in time to instruct the hikers, it simply wouldn't happen safely. But I imagine that faster hikers than I, well schooled in LNT, could be recruited.

The behaviour of those shown in the picture appears otherwise unremarkable. They are resting after the ascent, conversing amongst themselves, photographing, snacking and writing in journals. One small group appears posed for a picture at the sign, and another group appear to be awaiting their turn for the picture. Is there obvious misbehaviour that I'm missing?

Some of the people appear to be congregating in groups that are beyond BSP's 12-person limit. It is far from clear to me that they are actually associated, rather than being people who met by chance on the mountain. I am unaware of a rule that requires strangers to maintain a minimum separation among their parties. If there is such a rule, little is being done to publicize it, other than apparently citing Jurek for violating it - if indeed his excessively large group was composed, as he claims, of well-wishers who attached themselves to his entourage.

Nobody appears to be littering, and there is little evidence of strewn debris. Nobody appears to be consuming alcohol or illicit drugs, with the possible exception of one or two who may be smoking, and another one or two with containers of liquid in their hands. The individuals in question may just be eating, smoking tobacco, or rehydrating themselves; I cannot see anything in the picture to inform me one way or the other.

Stating that 'there is a problem' calls upon your readers to solve the problem. What would you have us do? I'll state my own position yet again.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'll assume that you mean that the sheer number of people is the problem. If that's the case, I've already committed to avoiding Katahdin and urging others to do the same. I will go no farther at this point. The incoherent message from BSPA is still sufficiently unclear that it is not yet time to ask my representatives in Congress to support legislation to abandon the northern terminus. (For one thing, it is not clear to me that the enabling legislation requires the trail to be open to all comers. It could be that the northern terminus should remain at Katahdin even if the circumstances allow few to visit it.)

If that is indeed your belief, you should be as explicit as I am. If there is not enough Katahdin to go around, then call at least upon non-Mainers to stay away. Don't just hint at it. I won't demand that you stay away yourself; you are a Mainer, and perhaps entitled to it - it was gifted to the people of Maine. But make your position clear. Handwringing about "too many people" does nothing without coming forward and saying that people who might otherwise wish to visit must be denied the chance to do so, and opening the discussion of who ought to be turned away.

If people who would wish to visit must be turned away, then I shall voluntarily step aside. I have nothing to bring that would justify taking another's opportunity away.

[BirdBrain]

Does it really matter Rick? There are issues which need to be corrected.

I am not going to read this thread in its entirety. I think Sly nails it. What does it matter what the number is? Let me answer the question as a nay sayer: Because BSP is lying to inflate a problem so they can kick out us people because they hate us. Here is reality. The average person that visits that park by percentage is much more likely to respect the rules of the park. Those visitors come from all over the planet. It is the ones that walk in that by percentage create a larger nuisance. Our focus should be on us and the nuisance we create, rather than focusing on red herring nuances.

[meat803]

It is comical that much of any blame gets placed upon thru hikers. Go to White Cap Mountain and see how much trash or destruction of wildlife you find. The most disgusting and damaged parts of the AT are in areas that are easily accessible to tourist, day hikers, and overnighters. If you believe this 3/20% BS then you obviously have never thru hiked.

[Uncle Joe]

I just don't have much respect for BSP. I imagine the issue is being inflated for press. They watched Jurek open a bottle of champaign then quickly summoned some righteous indignation AFTER the fact, if the reports are true.

[squeezebox]

Some reports say that Jurek was notified before hand. Everyone knows places like Baxter have rules you need to find out about. Jurek was wrong.
Baxter picked on Jurek to inflate the press? Yes! and to a very effective degree. It's not about personal profit of any kind. It's about keeping Baxter as a wilderness.

[rafe]

I just don't have much respect for BSP. I imagine the issue is being inflated for press. They watched Jurek open a bottle of champaign then quickly summoned some righteous indignation AFTER the fact, if the reports are true.

Scott flashed his champagne-popping to 160,000 followers on Facebook. I suspect that's what triggered the reaction from Bissell.

[Googan]

to keep people employed

[George]

the fix for most of the issues already exists: the local hostel runs daily schelduled shuttles in/out of the park -but only in the prime time (sept/ Oct) - a little bit of expansion / publicizing and remote (outside BSP - like Millinocket ) parking coordination would be the simple cure for distance as well as day hikers - anything other than scheduled transport is difficult as cell service is poor in all of Maine

[gregpphoto]

Can I ask why it seems that people think drugs and alcohol are ONLY consumed by thru hikers? Ive spent little to no time on the AT itself but have hiked and backpacked all over the nation including the northeast where lean-tos are prevalent and it seems like everyone consumes drugs and alcohol, not just thru hikers.

[BirdBrain]

Can I ask why it seems that people think drugs and alcohol are ONLY consumed by thru hikers? Ive spent little to no time on the AT itself but have hiked and backpacked all over the nation including the northeast where lean-tos are prevalent and it seems like everyone consumes drugs and alcohol, not just thru hikers.

The consumption of drugs or alcohol is not the issue. It is where it is done is the issue. You are correct in your observation. Thru's are not Martians. They represent a cross section of society. However that observation is irrelevant. I grew up hunting, trapping, and digging clams. Those facts are as irrelevant as are the choices I make about drugs and alcohol. They only become relevant when I do them in a place where it is not allowed. I am a libertarian when it comes to what someone does with their body on their property. However, if they want to do that stuff in a place that they ought to have some respect, I am no longer all about their freedom. A church is not a place to see a strip tease. BSP is not a place to have a party. People can abuse themselves any way they want. Have at it. I don't care. People just need to have a clue. There are some places they should not be doing those things. Thru's are just people. However, some thru's think every place belongs to them. It is that minority that create the inaccurate observations like most thru's being druggies and drunks.

[gregpphoto]

The consumption of drugs or alcohol is not the issue. It is where it is done is the issue... I am a libertarian when it comes to what someone does with their body on their property. However, if they want to do that stuff in a place that they ought to have some respect, I am no longer all about their freedom. A church is not a place to see a strip tease. BSP is not a place to have a party.

You know, they do serve wine in church

Really, couldnt agree more about the church analogy. I love how Abbey especially wrote about that. Its why I cant stand what National Parks have become (or always were, I guess). RVs do not belong in nature. Burger stands and movie theaters (looking at you, Yosemite Valley), do not belong in in nature. But to your point, perhaps the real issue isnt where, but how? I consume weed on just about every hike I go on, and beer often as well, but I never in a way that will negatively impact my fellow hikers, aka, well off trail, or at my own camp, not in a shelter. I always respect quiet hour, always pack out my cans of course, etc. Basically I am following all the principles of LNT, except for following the law of the land itself (not for long, but pot is still illegal).

[BirdBrain]

You know, they do serve wine in church

Really, couldnt agree more about the church analogy. I love how Abbey especially wrote about that. Its why I cant stand what National Parks have become (or always were, I guess). RVs do not belong in nature. Burger stands and movie theaters (looking at you, Yosemite Valley), do not belong in in nature. But to your point, perhaps the real issue isnt where, but how? I consume weed on just about every hike I go on, and beer often as well, but I never in a way that will negatively impact my fellow hikers, aka, well off trail, or at my own camp, not in a shelter. I always respect quiet hour, always pack out my cans of course, etc. Basically I am following all the principles of LNT, except for following the law of the land itself (not for long, but pot is still illegal).

Have you been to Baxter? It isn't perfect. However, it is closer to perfect then a bunch of parks. As to the weed. I smoked from age 12 to 19. I have shared a bunch of camps with pot smokers. Pretty common on the trail. Pretty common in the real world. I was raised by change smokers. Smoking of any kind does not get me worked up. I don't do either, but feel alcohol is 10 times the drug pot ever thought of being. But again, such social issues are not the problem. From reading your posts, on the surface, it appears you are not the problem either.

[gregpphoto]

Have you been to Baxter? It isn't perfect. However, it is closer to perfect then a bunch of parks. As to the weed. I smoked from age 12 to 19. I have shared a bunch of camps with pot smokers. Pretty common on the trail. Pretty common in the real world. I was raised by change smokers. Smoking of any kind does not get me worked up. I don't do either, but feel alcohol is 10 times the drug pot ever thought of being. But again, such social issues are not the problem. From reading your posts, on the surface, it appears you are not the problem either.

God I hope Im not! I try to be a working part of the solution, preaching the message of LNT like a Johnny Appleseed, but dirtier and more homeless.