Vitamin I dangers

[colorado_rob]

I think I'm detecting a bit of bragging in your tone. Sure, you've maintained a fit and toned body for many years. Some of us didn't, and are trying to make up for it. You also have a high ability to tolerate pain. Some of us have less of one. If you'd like me to tell you that I'm a wimp compared with your superior ability to deal with the world without chemical assistance, fine, you win.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

Isn't it funny how opposite our views can be? PF says something to the effect that keep you body fit and in shape and you don't need NSAIDs. Well, that great if that works. For some of us, by actually staying in shape, we have basically worn out our bodies (joints, etc) over the many decades and 10's of thousands of miles of running and hiking (not including "regular life" wear and tear) and if it were NOT for Vitamin I and the like, we would become sedentary and finally go to pot.

I envy anyone, especially when around 60 or more years old that can still hike/climb/whatever pain free, but I pity anyone who chooses to hike with pain simply out of some idealistic nonsense fueled these days by pseudo-science and the sensationalistic media. I also have nothing but scorn for anyone who expresses an opinion on a subject they have absolutely no experience in personally. Sigh.

And thanks again for adding some sane words to this otherwise fairly r silly discussion, Wulfgang.

[BirdBrain]

I find myself in an unusual position of wanting to defend PF. Of all the positions, I would think mine is the least defensible. I do not exercise enough, push myself too much while hiking, and end up in pain. PF has maintained his body and positioned himself better. Yes, he brags a bit. I likely would too. CR makes valid points too. An aggressive lifestyle will result in some damage. That is where I am. I am wearing out and fully intent to continue that path. Had I been more like PF, I likely would not have so much wear.

[Pedaling Fool]

My point being that most people mindlessly take these pills on the slightest bit of discomfort. We all know what swelling feels like, but not all pain is a result of swelling; my knee problems I discussed above is just one example of that. However, I'm willing to bet that many people would erroneously conclude (given the same symptoms) that they were suffering from inflammation, because we here that term so much; they would also erroneously conclude that they were having joint pain.


There is absolutely no hyperbole in what I said. There are plenty of people that I've hiked with that see these pills as a required part of hiking. I've even run and cycled with those who believe they are a required part of their kit for those activities.


I call BS, but that's not to say that I agree with the OP in this thread. I'm simply stating that many people turn to these pills rather than seeking other remedies to what ails them. Here is a good article on that and I'm in 100% agreement with.

I too, would love to simply take a pill, but life ain't that easy.



http://news.yahoo.com/exercise-extra...110000286.html

Excerpt:


And if we break our behavior down even further, physical activity has one of the biggest impacts on our overall health. The science is clear: Every system of the body benefits when a person exercises. A daily dose of physical activity is highly effective for preventing and treating many of our most prevalent chronic diseases, including coronary heart disease, hypertension, heart failure, obesity, depression and diabetes.

The bottom line is that physical activity is very ( very) good for our health. In fact, people who are regular exercisers can expect to live an average of seven years longer than their physically inactive friends.


So why are physicians, regardless of their specialty, not prescribing exercise to their patients? An initiative called Exercise is Medicine® that focuses on encouraging health care providers to include physical activity when designing treatment plans for their patients is trying to change this.


A key component of Exercise is Medicine is to have all health care providers assess their patients' physical activity at every visit. The Exercise is Medicine initiative aims to have physical activity recorded as a vital sign during patient visits and to encourage able patients to meet the physical activity guidelines. The goal is that inactive patients should be given exercise counseling or an exercise prescription to either a health or fitness professional or program.


Unfortunately, research published in the Journal of Physical Activity and Health reveals that more than 50 percent of the physicians trained in the U.S. in 2013 received no formal education in physical activity, and they are likely not prepared to help their patients with their exercise plan.


In his Huffines Presentation in 2013, Dr. Bob Sallis stated that exercise is a wonder drug. If it was listed in the Physician's Desk Reference (the largest compendium of drugs), it would be the most powerful drug currently available. And it would be malpractice not to prescribe it. These are powerful words that make a lot of sense.


So why has the medical community neglected this information? Partly because it's easier to prescribe a pill or surgery. We are a prescription nation. According to researchers at the Mayo Clinic and Olmsted Medical Center, almost 70 percent of Americans take at least one prescription drug -- costing us $374 billion in 2014.


It's time for our health care providers to start prescribing exercise as a drug. In fact, regular exercise is likely the single best prescription people of all ages could take for a huge host of health benefits. Simple stated, exercise is medicine. And we all need to adopt this mantra, because our health depends on it.

I need no defending. This is a public forum where we all come to share our views on given subjects; I've been around long enough to know that there will always be disagreement. That doesn't bother me.

I simply share my experiences, knowing some will find it useful, others not so useful and others will find it completely wrongheaded and stupid. That is life.

I'm no athlete, but I have found that working out the body is recuperative if done properly, in that you don't over do it (for the most part, but we all over do it occasionally).

However, I guess most people don't see that, because when they go for a run for the first time it hurts, it hurts really bad, but you can over come that (at least most of us can). If you can't or don't want to, that's alright by me. No hard feelings -- I'm just sharing my experiences.

I quote my previous post only to reemphasize that article on the great feeling that exercise provides the mind/body, but you must break thru a very painful period, which can range anywhere from sheer boredom of working out, to great pains that come from your workouts.

It's the stuff of the mind I don't get much into, because I don't know how to say it without sounding like a total freak, but maybe that's what's missing from my posts, which is mostly about the physical.

[BirdBrain]

I need no defending. This is a public forum where we all come to share our views on given subjects; I've been around long enough to know that there will always be disagreement. That doesn't bother me.

I simply share my experiences, knowing some will find it useful, others not so useful and others will find it completely wrongheaded and stupid. That is life.

I'm no athlete, but I have found that working out the body is recuperative if done properly, in that you don't over do it (for the most part, but we all over do it occasionally).

However, I guess most people don't see that, because when they go for a run for the first time it hurts, it hurts really bad, but you can over come that (at least most of us can). If you can't or don't want to, that's alright by me. No hard feelings -- I'm just sharing my experiences.

I quote my previous post only to reemphasize that article on the great feeling that exercise provides the mind/body, but you must break thru a very painful period, which can range anywhere from sheer boredom of working out, to great pains that come from your workouts.

It's the stuff of the mind I don't get much into, because I don't know how to say it without sounding like a total freak, but maybe that's what's missing from my posts, which is mostly about the physical.

Since you don't care what people say (positive or negative), allow me to explain a reason people react as they do. You make valid points about how to maintain a body. You make absurd assumptions. You made one about me. I cut through the crap and commented on the valid statements. Allow me to explain.

I speak of my leg in the abstract often. I do not give many specifics because people would miss the intent. However, since I crossed that line in another thread, I will a bit more here as well. I am likely going to edit both posts later today to just dots. I am uncomfortable speaking of this stuff in detail.

In July of 1980, I was involved in a motorcycle accident that forever changed my right leg. I will give just enough detail to make my point... no more. I had a quack for a doctor that prompted me to not go back. My leg turned black from my hip to my toes. It took about a month before the swelling and bruising dropped to the point that I was willing to try therapy. I did my own. By then, I was fighting atrophy. It would take about 30 minutes to bend my leg and another 10 to straighten it. You have no clue what pain is unless you have faced such a thing. Over the weeks, I increased the reps. Soon, I could hobble by tossing my leg into joint as I "walked". Before I could walk, I was swimming. Prior to the accident, I was running a 7 mile hilly loop daily in just under 50 minutes. I have never ran a race. I have zero interest. It was for me. As soon as I could, I was hobble running. I got back up to the distance and time. The leg eventually won. I still act like an idiot and try to run every year. My cardio is fine. The pain is too much. Every step I take, I am reminded of that accident. This leg has carried me over the 48 4000' hills of NH and 60 of the New England 67. It has carried me from Katahdin to the Long Trail. There are times that the pain is so great that I feel like puking or passing out. You speak of the pain of running. I doubt seriously that you know what pain is.

I say all this to make a simple point. You have no clue what the other guy is facing. I am certain there are many that face greater obstacles than I do. Your points of the benefits of exercise are valid. Stick to them and stop the ignorant assumptions about other people. I do not exercise as I should. There is a reason for that. I do exercise. I think I am doing pretty good. I have listened to AK as he describes his progress. He (and the many other people like him) deserve praise, not "do like me idiot" type statements. You have no clue what the other guy is facing. Stop assuming all is because you are superior in body and routine.

I tried to defend your valid points. Perhaps you are happier now that I did not ignore what irks others.

[Pedaling Fool]

I am mostly with you on this one too. Of course there are many other ways to get proper exercise without putting such stresses on the body that make vitamin I so popular. I love hiking for the hills. That choice means pain for me. I choose the pleasure of hiking and am willing to subject my body to the abuses of the pain and damages of vitamin I as a trade off. I know I am doing damage. I do it willingly. I have one life. Some will die healthy and some will die happy. I plan on burning out, not saving my oil in a rotting cask. Again, I am mostly with you.

Since you don't care what people say (positive or negative), allow me to explain a reason people react as they do. You make valid points about how to maintain a body. You make absurd assumptions. You made one about me. I cut through the crap and commented on the valid statements. Allow me to explain.

I speak of my leg in the abstract often. I do not give many specifics because people would miss the intent. However, since I crossed that line in another thread, I will a bit more here as well. I am likely going to edit both posts later today to just dots. I am uncomfortable speaking of this stuff in detail.

In July of 1980, I was involved in a motorcycle accident that forever changed my right leg. I will give just enough detail to make my point... no more. I had a quack for a doctor that prompted me to not go back. My leg turned black from my hip to my toes. It took about a month before the swelling and bruising dropped to the point that I was willing to try therapy. I did my own. By then, I was fighting atrophy. It would take about 30 minutes to bend my leg and another 10 to straighten it. You have no clue what pain is unless you have faced such a thing. Over the weeks, I increased the reps. Soon, I could hobble by tossing my leg into joint as I "walked". Before I could walk, I was swimming. Prior to the accident, I was running a 7 mile hilly loop daily in just under 50 minutes. I have never ran a race. I have zero interest. It was for me. As soon as I could, I was hobble running. I got back up to the distance and time. The leg eventually won. I still act like an idiot and try to run every year. My cardio is fine. The pain is too much. Every step I take, I am reminded of that accident. This leg has carried me over the 48 4000' hills of NH and 60 of the New England 67. It has carried me from Katahdin to the Long Trail. There are times that the pain is so great that I feel like puking or passing out. You speak of the pain of running. I doubt seriously that you know what pain is.

I say all this to make a simple point. You have no clue what the other guy is facing. I am certain there are many that face greater obstacles than I do. Your points of the benefits of exercise are valid. Stick to them and stop the ignorant assumptions about other people. I do not exercise as I should. There is a reason for that. I do exercise. I think I am doing pretty good. I have listened to AK as he describes his progress. He (and the many other people like him) deserve praise, not "do like me idiot" type statements. You have no clue what the other guy is facing. Stop assuming all is because you are superior in body and routine.

I tried to defend your valid points. Perhaps you are happier now that I did not ignore what irks others.

Fine, then you're one of those people I mentioned in my previous post when I said, “I simply share my experiences, knowing some will find it useful, others not so useful and others will find it completely wrongheaded and stupid. That is life.”.


I didn't know you had that medical history when I responded to your post (quoted above), not that I totally agree with your approach, but I won't comment on your situation anymore, since I have neither the time, nor inclination to get involved...as I said this is a public forum, period – nothing more. It's a place to share experiences, not provide counseling.


The point is, that some WILL find my experiences useful, that's why I share.


P.S. Still no hard feelings

[BirdBrain]

Fine, then you're one of those people I mentioned in my previous post when I said, “I simply share my experiences, knowing some will find it useful, others not so useful and others will find it completely wrongheaded and stupid. That is life.”.


I didn't know you had that medical history when I responded to your post (quoted above), not that I totally agree with your approach, but I won't comment on your situation anymore, since I have neither the time, nor inclination to get involved...as I said this is a public forum, period – nothing more. It's a place to share experiences, not provide counseling.


The point is, that some WILL find my experiences useful, that's why I share.


P.S. Still no hard feelings

P.S. I still find your advice valid and valuable.

[rocketsocks]

Me too, and motivating.

[orthofingers]

[QUOTE=Pedaling Fool;1992885]You always hear how NSAIDs reduce inflammation. I don't know what that means. What inflames? What does an inflamed joint feel like?

I believe Galen, the Greek physician, described inflammation a few thousand years ago:

Tumor (swelling), Rubor (redness), Calor (heat), Dolor (pain) and the last one is loss of function but I don't know how to spell it in Greek.
,

[Hikinfool]

This thread has gotten a bit crazy. I try to keep it simple. I'm aware of the medical literature and it has been noted in the thread. I try to keep things simple. I take ibuprofen while at home. I take it on the trail; that's it.

[AlyontheAT2016]

I take 3 or 4 ibuprofen a month for period cramps, otherwise I'm crippled. I've never taken ibuprofen for foot, leg, or muscle pain. No reason to mask a sign that I need to rest or take it a little easier for a day.

[Cotton Terry]

Interesting. I take 2-3 200mg tablets of Advil every evening for shoulder pain so I can get to sleep.

[MuddyWaters]

You know you're doing damage when you hike? Why is that?

Probably because you don't exercise during your non-hiking time.

You seem to be saying that it's natural to wear down the body during a hike – it's not.

Ive hiked 35 miles with severe ITB and tendonitis, only by use of painkillers, to get to a good stopping point to get off trail.

All it takes is a minor tweak to change gait or muscle patterns / compwnsation and result in tendonitis, even in well trained people.

Ive hiked similar with a lower leg stress fracture as well. Same reason...Im not a pu$$y that will ask for rescue due to a little discomfort as long as I dont think im doing severe long term damage. Once you realize you CAN make it decent distance with injuries.....it is very liberating.... You stop worrying and carrying useless stuff. You do however, carry more ibuprofen. 0.5 oz goes a long way.

When you need painkillers, you need them.


Some need them all the time due to degenerative conditions. No amount of training replaces aged knee cartilage, bone spurs, etc.

[Another Kevin]

[QUOTE=orthofingers;2049346]

You always hear how NSAIDs reduce inflammation. I don't know what that means. What inflames? What does an inflamed joint feel like?

I believe Galen, the Greek physician, described inflammation a few thousand years ago:

Tumor (swelling), Rubor (redness), Calor (heat), Dolor (pain) and the last one is loss of function but I don't know how to spell it in Greek.
,

Galen, while Greek, lived in Roman times and the only surviving versions of many of his works are in Latin or Arabic. Rubor,, tumor, calor, dolor, and functio læsa are all Latin words.

[DuneElliot]

I take 3 or 4 ibuprofen a month for period cramps, otherwise I'm crippled. I've never taken ibuprofen for foot, leg, or muscle pain. No reason to mask a sign that I need to rest or take it a little easier for a day.

Ditto. Or for headaches...those are one thing I can't function through.

I broke my back a few years ago but can't take any of the pain meds that might work on the occasion when I need them. I find a couple of beers actually does better to reduce the pain than any OTC or prescription pain med...and is far better for you. In small amounts, beer is actually good for you.