So that's what we are calling these endless debates now.Originally Posted by Mags
i am usually more interested in the post-hike brews
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln
Ya think? (Big grin.)
Thanks Garlic. I imagine you are eating well on those back-country trips. I bet Mags makes a mean freezer bag lasagna.
“Every path but your own is the path of fate. Keep on your own track, then.” Thoreau.
Well, that does mean you actually have to out and hike. Something people seem hesitant to do pre-trip.(And perusing REI on weekends does not count as a hike...
Paul "Mags" Magnanti
http://pmags.com
Twitter: @pmagsco
Facebook: pmagsblog
The true harvest of my life is intangible...a little stardust caught,a portion of the rainbow I have clutched -Thoreau
I took this thread to heart, I did 6 days in Connecticut on the A.T. because of it , I liked it, didn't get nearly as many miles as I wanted, but I totally enjoyed it. And I'm sure it will be nicer with more people, I only saw a handful of SOBO. I still intend to hike next year. Glad I came across this thread, I needed a shakedown hike.
+1 -This is the very reason I like to hike at all, whether it be a few hours on a Saturday, all weekend long or whatever. Why would anyone chose to spend the most valuable commodity in life... TIME... in the woods and not even really look at the woods? Every time I go, no matter where it is, I am in absolute AWE of the beauty of it. It's artwork that cannot be replicated. It's a gift. It was all built for us, for our enjoyment and resource. My eyes feast upon it... and my husband just needs me to come on so we can get to the next point on the map. Just different strokes I guess.
" Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. "
+1 All That above!!! It's like asking advice on parenting. What a swarming mess of ideas and theories, each being right and each being wrong depending on the person speaking and the person listening. It's so much FUN!!!!!No matter what you do, someone will think it is wrong. There are those that say just do it and learn as you go. There are those that say that you should, to the best of your ability, be prepared for every foreseeable possibility. And there are a million opinions in between. If pressed, many will call your view stupid or arrogant if it differs from their view. It is truly an amazing process to behold. I have seen people I have great respect for argue polar opposite views. I have seen them say such blunt and insulting things about what the other guy is doing. HYOH has its place. Find out who you are and apply it to this adventure. You are not going to change who you are.
I am the type of person who tests most everything. When I have not used my table saw in a while, I run a test cut before I start cutting the real thing. If I am going to do any touch up painting in the house, I paint a sample to see how it will match before I paint the real thing. I check the door on the way out of the house to see if it is locked. I apply this mentality to my walks. It follows a pattern of who I am.
In the spring, I check out all my gear. During the winter, I have pondered things that could be improved. Sometimes those "improvements" are gear. Sometimes they are methods. I check things as best I can at home. I test things on a shakedown. I test myself on a shakedown. I injure myself in my day to day life. If you have an active life, you probably get a few bumps too. There is something on my body that is healing most of the time. The shakedown is the time to find out if I am ready or if my gear is ready or if my "improvements" are worthy. The trail is humbling. I would rather be humbled on a 3 day walk than a 30 day walk.
None of this is a superior plan. It is reflective of who I am. I think it is a better plan. I can and have argued that it is a better plan. I have had people that I have great respect for shoot holes in my methods. They do so because of who they are. They think it is because their methods are superior. Sometimes that might be the case. Many people find a way to succeed doing thing vastly different from the other guy. Many people think my endless testing and checking and planning is an unreasonable way to do things. I think their difficulties along the trail are a result of their lack of planning. They think such things are unavoidable and that you can plan so much that you don't go. It goes on and on.
I am not sure if any of this makes sense. I would advise people to live with themselves. You are who you are. Do the best you can, knowing who you are. For some, even that concept requires too much thinking. Had to put my dig in.That is the normal way we debate here.
" Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. "
I would say, yes.
1. to get in condition for the "conditions" I could reasonably expect because I ask.
2. if I have new equipment, I try it on an easy hike where I can see how well it works out without putting myself or the rest of my gear at risk.
For example, I can expect windy conditions.
Is the "windshirt" worthy? I have a jacket.
Is this tarp or tent easy enough to set up in windy conditions? If I practice more, will set up be easy enough?
3. if I am out-of-shape for any reason.
4. I also like to work with new food or new recipes on a shakedown hike, before a longer hike or a more remote location hike.
I use to run marathons and ultras and individuals wanting to give them a try would ask me what was the hardest part of the whole process and I would honestly say, getting to the starting line. You don't really fail if you get to the starting line and attempt the event. I would rather attempt and fail then have sat at home and kept saying, next year until I was 80. Yes, preparation almost always equals success so do everything possible so you can succeed and of course get to that starting line.
I thank all who contributed to this thread.
I’m 66. I’ve day-hiked probably way more than 1000 miles, but I’ve only slept on the ground a few times. I’ve read eight books on the AT experience and I’ve watched too many YouTube videos. I made the decision to tackle the AT late last fall when I had little chance of doing a local long distance shakedown hike (without deep snow). But, I’m still game for attempting a thru-hike starting in late March. With my age, I don’t have the luxury of waiting too many more years to acquire more experience. I’m currently doing frequent training hikes by carrying a heavy pack up and down different mountain pass highways near home (Lake Tahoe).
Will I wimp-out? I don’t believe so. I wouldn’t be attempting this if I were not very convinced that I could complete the challenge. Baring unforeseen catastrophe or a failure of leg linkage, I plan on making it to Maine. If I don’t, will I be disappointed? Of course. Will I regret making the attempt? Most definitely not.
“I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.” — Lucille Ball
I think the idea that one shouldn't thru-hike the AT without a great deal of experience shows how removed from nature (read: spoiled) we are. I'm not saying one shouldn't be prepared, but it should only require so much preparation to go for a walk -- albeit a VERY long walk. This was once how one traveled, with much more than 30 lbs in tow. It would be foolish to take a thru-hike on without the right knowledge of equipment, water supply, etc., but I don't think it's necessary to do a handful of 100-milers unless your goal is to make 100% sure you're going to enjoy it, but for some people that isn't necessary.
Romanticism definitely plays a role (especially when a hiker movie is released). I think non-hikers who thru-hike the AT are looking for the adventure, and are willing to risk hating it. If I spent a year preparing for all the adventures I've been on, I never would have gotten to the actual adventures. I'm more of a weekend backpacker and day hiker who has wanted to do a long distance hike since before I knew what the Appalachian Trail was. The reason I'm specifically going this year is because I am dying for six months away from computers and phones and nonsense tv, and I can't think of a better way for someone who enjoys hiking to do that. Granted, I am doing test hikes with different pack weights, equipment, footwear, as well as some cold weather tests, but this is just to enhance my experience by avoiding as many mishaps as possible (some will happen anyway). But I won't pick on those who just decide to do it for the adventure with no experience -- it takes a lot of courage to do so and lots of couch potatoes have made it to Maine.
Shakedowns are not necessary.
Wont make much difference.
Ample places to swap out gear in first several weeks on trail
Learn as you go, has worked for many people, even if more expensive.
But...adjusting expectations, and fixing foot and gear issues ahead of time isnt worthless, it makes your time on trail more enjoyable.
Cheryl Strayed did the PCT with no experience at all. And she lived to write a book; help adapt a film,and become rich from it.
Not for everyone. I'm in training and currently at the start of it. I live at sea level and that's been tough, let alone tackling hills and mountains in the training hikes ahead. However, for family and financial reasons, I can't do a thru-hike for four years. If I'm not up to it by then, the money I saved for it will go to a certain charity.
Then again, there's that gentleman with weight issues who is biking across America, and started with no conditioning. (I too have weight to lose, @50pounds, and won't do a thru-hike until my excess poundage is off. My PCP says I don't have health issues with this, but I'll be backpack, tent etc.in tow, no need for excess, forgive the pun, baggage.)
www/facebook.com/fatguyacrossamerica
Your thoughts, please on weight loss before a shakedown hike?
(You may have seen the article about him last summer or fall in the NYT.)
why not incorporate the shakedown hike as part of the weight loss program? No one says you need to do 20 plus miles. Do 5, 6, or 7 miles days and enjoy the experience.
One of my most important lessons learned on the trail is that the body is very, very efficient at using calories, but you gotta build up that efficiency. Problem is that our bodies lose that efficiency, because we mostly sit around, thereby the body breaks down, and we keep stuffing (and stuffing...) our faces with food -- so no reason to be efficient.
We've all heard the mantra: We eat too much..., that's a very true statement, but many don't understand just how much we all overeat.
A thru-hike is one of those activities that virtually everyone loses weight, not so much because we are walking all day (not down-playing the importance of that...), rather because we are forced to ration our food, because we don't carry that much food, since it's heavy. We are all burning way more calories than we are taking in, something that is very hard to do when you have unlimited access to food, despite how much you workout. BTW, that fatguyacrossamerica will find it tough to lose weight, he would have lost it much faster on a thru-hike, because on a bike he has food all around him. Not saying he won't lose weight, he kind of has to, since he's so heavy, but I'd be really interested in what his daily diet consists of...
You want to lose weight, you gotta cut way back on your intake, period. Forget all the advice that says you gotta eat so many calories per day; your calorie intake depends on your activity. Today is my rest day from working out, all I did was yard work. I ate no breakfast/lunch and my dinner consists of yams, soup and garlic bread. Not exactly 2,000 calories.
Yes you will feel hungry and there will be times you feel a little light-headed (if working out on an empty stomach), but work thru it and your body will learn how to feed off your fat stores, instead of waiting for the easier fuel source (whatever you stuff into your face).
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014...-machine_31034
Excerpt:
The following is Sindballe’s personal account of how he attempted to make his body into a fat-burning machine, thereby giving his body the most efficient and limitless fuel available to him. It was originally seen in the Nov/Dec 2010 issue of Inside Triathlon magazine.
A good friend of mine once finished a six-hour ride in the mountains on nothing but pure water. No gels, no energy drinks—just water. And he was not out on a Sunday ride—he was hammering, riding hard on the ascents and flying down the descents. Can you do that? Or are you already thinking of how many gels and bars you would need to drag along for the ride?
While research over the last 10 years has improved our understanding of fatigue and the interplay of metabolism, heat and fluids—as well as the role our brains play in all of this—there is still a general consensus that the size of our carbohydrate stores and the rate at which we can derive energy from fat play a significant role in endurance. And while most triathletes are well versed on the carbohydrate side of this equation—how to stock and replenish glycogen stores before, during and after workouts—few understand how to tap into their ability to use fat for fuel.
When we are very fit, our glycogen stores can fuel a six-hour hard ride in the mountains, similar to the one my friend took. But after the ride, the glycogen tank is almost empty. In comparison, even a rail thin triathlete stores enough fat to fuel five Ironmans in a row.
Fat is an almost unlimited resource, but it comes with two problems: The human brain is a sugar lover, and the rate at which fat is burned for fuel is too slow to support a hard, fast Ironman effort. In other words, your body fuels itself with a combination of glycogen and fat (and a little protein), with fat being the source of fuel that lasts but which cannot be tapped quickly enough to keep you moving fast.
The problem of your brain loving sugar can be solved by taking in enough carbohydrates during exercise. And the fat burning problem can be abated by teaching your body to use fat at a faster rate—thus staving off the depletion of the glycogen tank and allowing you to go faster longer. (Once the glycogen is gone, your body can only tap into its fat for fuel, thus forcing you to slow down or bonk.)
The easiest way to improve your ability to oxidize fat—turn fat into energy—is to train for long hours on the trails or in the saddle at a relatively slow pace. Generally, you don’t want to go much faster than your Ironman pace if you’re trying to stimulate your fat oxidation capabilities. While most athletes are well aware of this, there are several diet and training tricks out there that claim to increase the quality of the training stimulus these rides and runs provide. I have researched and tried most of these tricks myself while I was an Ironman pro and now have an understanding of what does and doesn’t work.
Read more at http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014...cZILHxCehC5.99
I'm all for shakedown hikes, but that is my style. I'd even do a couple of shakedown hikes again if I were anticipating ten or more days of hiking because I haven't done as much backpacking as I once did. Speaking for myself, after a couple of months of living in "civilized society" I lose my trail smarts, trail balance, sense of what to pack and what not to pack. I even lose my efficiency at setting up camp, lose some skill at camp cookery. Shakedown hikes, especially those in inclement weather can save myself much trouble on subsequent hikes. I sure as heck would do shakedown hikes in preparation for a long distance hiking journey. And if I were traveling with a significant other we'd be out there sharpening our skills and getting used to each other's "trail style" for many weeks before departure on the "big trip."
If anyone would like to read a great long distance hiker's defense of shakedown hikes I'd refer you to Ray Jardine's book, "Beyond Backpacking." But I have to say I admire other types of folks who just shoulder a pack, strap on some boots and set out on a hiking odyssey. Sometimes they don't get very far down the trail before there are serious health consequences, or shin splints, or debilitating blistered feet, but there are those who overcome the inevitable learning curve and have outcomes that are really satisfying for themselves. There are enough of us who have leant newbies sleeping bags, or given them food when they were famished to give a stern warning to those entering the backcountry alone and without proper preparation---it would be better if you'd study up on the basic nuts and bolts of long distance hiking so that you don't blow out your knees or lower g.i. or try to cross a shallow waterfall and get yourself in real trouble. For all these reasons can you tell i am one for shakedown cruises. Even better, if you are a greenhorn is to find a hiking club or an outfitter or some experienced person who knows is way around in the woods and learn what it is you'll need to know before setting out into the wilds. My three cents.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." — John Muir on expedition planning
Love the quote! … but that's not my style …
Bruce Traillium
There are certain threads that rub me the wrong way. This is one of them.
Is Mags advice solid and stable advice? Yes. Should it be required? absolutely not.
Should hikers have to like views to go on a hike? No.
Should hikers have to have the right gear? No.
Make the miles? No.
Be in shape? No.
Have the right footwear? No.
Talk on forums? No.
Eat the right food? No.
Do they even have to like LD hiking? No.
Could all this make it easier? Yes, but certainly not required to participate.
HYOH keeps me in check. It helps me to stop judging other people and their methods of hiking. It helps me to stay on the ground instead of thinking my way is the best way and putting my way on my self-built pedestal. Good advice is good advice, but it is just that advice. The moment we put rules and restrictions on who can or who can't get on a national trail based on prerequisites, we are all doomed.
just my .02, YMMV, HYOH
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