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  1. #1
    Registered User Cadenza's Avatar
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    Default Arc'teryx Customer Service

    Recently, I had an experience with the folks at Arc'teryx that deserves to be told.

    I have three different Arc'teryx Gore-tex rain jackets. Theta AR, Alpha SV, and Alpha AR.
    The "Theta AR" is the oldest. I've had it for about 15 years. It has always been my favorite.

    A year or so ago I noticed that the bonded hem at the bottom was starting to come apart. Then the draw cord at the waist also started delamination. Realizing it would only continue to get worse, I contacted Arc'teryx about having it repaired.
    The instructions on their website stated that I must first submit a form, describe the problem, upload a picture of the garment/problem, and get a repair authorization code.

    I submitted the following photos:





    A couple days later I received by email a "Repair Authorization Code."
    Also I was instructed to wash and dry the garment like normal, warm water, tumble dry, etc.
    When I pulled the jacket out of the dryer I was shocked! Both cords had completely delaminated and were hopelessly tangled into an impossible mess! I spent maybe 45 minutes trying to untangle the draw cords. The channel at the waist was frayed and tangled in the mix.

    I typed up a short letter explaining that at the time of authorization request the jacket looked as the submitted photo, and after washing and drying (per their instructions) it had turned into the tangled web of the condition they were receiving. I boxed the jacket up with the letter. Authorization code on outside of box and referenced in the letter. I then dropped it off with UPS.

    About a week later I received an email to confirm that they had received the package. A few days later, an email advised that the garment was being evaluated. After a few more days an email update stated that jacket was being repaired. About 10 days later another email indicating that repairs were completed. A few more days, an email that the jacket was being returned to me. Yada, yada, yada. About a week later it arrived at my door.

    I have to say, Arc'teryx was FANTASTIC about keeping me informed every step of the way. The whole process took about a month.

    Now it was time to open the box. I expected that they had probably put a new waist band channel and cord and probably rebonded the bottom hem.

    Above and beyond the call of duty!!!! Not only were all seams re-bonded and laminated,....They had rebuilt the entire jacket! Every zipper was replaced with new waterproof zips. Even the hood was rebuilt.
    It was still "MY" jacket,....in the sense that the original fabric was retained. But they had completely deconstructed and rebuilt it from the ground up.

    Now, the best part........IT WAS ALL ABSOLUTELY FREE.
    Not once was there ever any mention of any cost.

    ***

    I have been recommending Arc'teryx products to people for years,....with the caveat that they are "hideously expensive."
    Lots of companies offer guarantees and warranties. Few deliver like my experience with Arc.
    If something is guaranteed for life, and the company stands behind the product, then the price is not so hideous.
    Last edited by Cadenza; 09-08-2015 at 16:43.

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    That's great to hear. I'm awaiting my first Arc'teryx jacket...the Atom LT Hoody.
    Last edited by ChrisJackson; 09-07-2015 at 20:43.
    hikers gonna hike

  3. #3
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    And that's the difference between high end gear and high quality customer service that some often ignore when opting for CHEAP gear instead!

    I have three Arc'teryx pieces, all jackets, two all weather rain jackets and one climbing hybrid jacket. GREAT reliable - not one trip and done - jackets worth every penny when absolute bomber reliability on overseas or remote adventures is of paramount importance. Nice collection of jackets Cadenza.

  4. #4

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    Arc'teryx isn't all that special. Just about all quality manufacturers have a lifetime warranty, but I'd never even consider sending something back after 15 years of use - I'd honestly be embarrassed. It's unreasonable to expect an article of clothing to last longer than most people keep a vehicle. It seems like a waste of time and money for them to have rebuilt the entire jacket rather than just replacing it with a current model, although they may have done this to avoid encouraging people to use an item beyond its useful life, cry foul over what is arguably normal wear and tear, and turn it in for a new one. (This is exactly what caused REI to revise their return policy.) I think they were sending you a message. I'd always thought Arc'teryx was overpriced, even in the world of premium outdoor gear, now I know why.
    Last edited by Offshore; 09-08-2015 at 11:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Arc'teryx isn't all that special. Just about all quality manufacturers have a lifetime warranty, but I'd never even consider sending something back after 15 years of use - I'd honestly be embarrassed. It's unreasonable to expect an article of clothing to last longer than most people keep a vehicle. It seems like a waste of time and money for them to have "rebuilt" the entire jacket rather than just replacing it with a current model, although they may have done this to avoid encouraging people to use an item for a decade and a half, cry foul over what is arguably normal wear and tear given the age of the garment, and turn it in for a new one. (This is exactly what caused REI to revise their return policy.) I'd always thought Arc'teryx was overpriced, even in the world of premium outdoor gear, now I know why.
    Darn Tough told me to try and wear out their socks and I sure did. Do I feel guilty about six pairs that Ive worn literally every single day of life for the last four years now, and trying to get em replaced? Nope. Because they offered it to me.

    Pretty sweet they fixed your rig for free! Perhaps I should rethink my views on Arc'Fairy and Patagucci (they do a similar thing). But still, the initial price is so steep. Osprey does the same thing for packs as Arc does, and they start at half the price.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpphoto View Post
    Darn Tough told me to try and wear out their socks and I sure did. Do I feel guilty about six pairs that Ive worn literally every single day of life for the last four years now, and trying to get em replaced? Nope. Because they offered it to me.

    Pretty sweet they fixed your rig for free! Perhaps I should rethink my views on Arc'Fairy and Patagucci (they do a similar thing). But still, the initial price is so steep. Osprey does the same thing for packs as Arc does, and they start at half the price.
    If they make the offer, then its up to you to take them up on it or not. Everyone can decide for themselves what is and what is not reasonable behavior. They start with a decent product and make the guarantee more as a marketing move than anything else, knowing a very small percentage of customers will wear the item out and a small percentage of those who do will ask for a replacement. If it gets to be too much where the cost of repair/replacement outweighs the marketing and reputation benefit, the policy will change. It happened with Costco with electronics and more recently REI.
    Last edited by Offshore; 09-08-2015 at 11:35.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Arc'teryx isn't all that special. Just about all quality manufacturers have a lifetime warranty, but I'd never even consider sending something back after 15 years of use - I'd honestly be embarrassed. It's unreasonable to expect an article of clothing to last longer than most people keep a vehicle. .
    I just went to their website and saw their prices. I wouldn't have a problem. For the price it would cost you to buy one of their rain jackets you could buy several mid grade ones or a few dozen walmart quality ones. Built into their prices is the idea if they have to provide you with three rain jackets at that price, they still make plenty of money.
    Love people and use things; never the reverse.

    Mt. Katahdin would be a lot quicker to climb if its darn access trail didn't start all the way down in Georgia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Arc'teryx isn't all that special. Just about all quality manufacturers have a lifetime warranty, but I'd never even consider sending something back after 15 years of use - I'd honestly be embarrassed. It's unreasonable to expect an article of clothing to last longer than most people keep a vehicle. It seems like a waste of time and money for them to have rebuilt the entire jacket rather than just replacing it with a current model, although they may have done this to avoid encouraging people to use an item beyond its useful life, cry foul over what is arguably normal wear and tear, and turn it in for a new one. (This is exactly what caused REI to revise their return policy.) I think they were sending you a message. I'd always thought Arc'teryx was overpriced, even in the world of premium outdoor gear, now I know why.
    You may be missing some points. First, Arc'teryx gear has LONG useful lives many yrs beyond some of the itsy bitsy UL or shabbily built sometimes pricey in its own right outdoor gear. It's bomber gear. It's designed and built by those that live adventure in often extreme and/or abrasive places, useful for, but well beyond, adventure in the sense of fringe UL hiking/thru-hiking on established maintained trails! It's gear for when extreme needs are involved but I find equally useful employing at other times.

    Arc/teryx is a company based in Vancouver British Columbia Canada that designs and builds highly functional highest quality long term reliable gear for adventuring with no compromises. I 100% agree with Arc'teryx when they state their paramount design process goals are quality, durability, and absolute reliability. This they take much pride in. IMHO, Arc'teryx goes beyond being just another run of the mill quality gear manufacturer with a return policy. In short, they are not designing throw away in a short time gear! It's also why some S&R teams, Rangers, LEOs, professional guides, mountaineers, remote back country stationed/working personnel, combat professionals, etc have chosen Arc'teryx products.

    It's not unheard of to get 15 yrs use out of a decently constructed and maintained Arc'teryx jacket. It's obvious by Cadenza's pics he's taken care of his jackets. That repaired jacket before it was repaired obviously had more yrs of useful service beyond the cord seam opening up and tangled/disintegrating cord issue. I think Arc'teryx Customer Service knew this jacket was NOT worn out beyond reasonable repair by Cadenza submitting some good pics of the jacket and issues in question. I wouldn't be surprised to learn Cadenza shared with Customer Service the number of gear pieces he has from Arc'teryx. I would think it points to Cadenza as a loyal Arc'teryx customer and conscientious maintainer of his Arc'teryx jackets and the long term functional reliability of Arc'teryx gear.

    Arc'teryx Warranty as it pertains to Cadenza's seam and cord issues:
    What is and isn't covered under the Warranty Policy? Defects in materials or workmanship are covered for the practical lifetime of the product. Material refers to zippers, buckles and fabrics. Workmanship refers to seams, seam tape and construction. Damage due to wear and tears such as rips, tears, abrasion or UV degradation, misuse or neglect is not covered under our warranty policy but may be repairable for a fee.
    What does 'practical Lifetime of the product' mean? We build our products to last over extended periods of use, but nothing lasts indefinitely. Materials will deteriorate and fade over time and moving parts will wear out. We will cover your product under our warranty policy until such a time that we have deemed the product to be worn out beyond reasonable repair. If the product is showing the signs of its age—for instance, the material has become thin or faded, there are rips and tears, the zippers no longer catch, the cuffs are fraying, or the soles are worn—we will take this into consideration when assessing your product for a warranty request. All gear will suffer from differing degrees of wear-and-tear, depending upon the user. Equipment used by an outdoor guide for 150 days a year will by comparison, degrade faster than gear used by a weekend skier. By taking care of your equipment you will ensure a longer lifetime for your gear. We recommend that you visit our Product Care page for more information on how to wash and care for your equipment. Use your judgment when assessing whether your product is likely to be covered under our warranty policy. It may simply be time to replace your product, and we hope that Arc'teryx will have the opportunity to provide you with superior quality products and service in the future.

    It would seem plane to me both Arc'teryx and Cadenza lived up to what was expected of themselves which is quite pleasant to witness both from a gear company and outdoor enthusiast. Cadenza aptly demonstrates a valid customer service under warranty issue according to Arc'teryx's WELL COMMUNICATED Warranty Policy and how to wisely go about submitting a warranty claim. Cadenza, by all that he shared, amply demonstrates he was NOT abusing a Return Policy. This is not the same as what happened at REI as REI has related it!

    Good for Cadenza. And, good for Arc'teryx by not just marketing a bunch of yakkety yak or covering their arses with ridgid inflexible lame arse in the name of profit Return Policy changes as other companies have but standing behind what it designs and manufactures obviously living up to EXACTLY what it claims!
    I have to agree with Cadenza, "I have been recommending Arc'teryx products to people for years,....with the caveat that they are "hideously expensive."
    Lots of companies offer guarantees and waranties. Few deliver like my experience with Arc.
    If something is guaranteed for life, and the company stands behind the product, then the price is not so hideous."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaTouron View Post
    I just went to their website and saw their prices. I wouldn't have a problem. For the price it would cost you to buy one of their rain jackets you could buy several mid grade ones or a few dozen walmart quality ones. Built into their prices is the idea if they have to provide you with three rain jackets at that price, they still make plenty of money.
    That's a good example of the differences between buying and properly caring for a jacket manufactured by who knows under whom's design(probably ripped off from some other company that invested R&D dollars and that actually LIVE AND BREATHE what they design and manufacture) and with short cut mass manufacturing cheapest labor guidelines built in who knows where(I can guess with some accuracy China) verse buying a Arc'teryx jacket where all that can be followed through the design and manufacturing process. Needless, to say but also points to the differences in follow up long term HIGH QUALITY CUSTOMER SERVICE where professional communication is a matter of habit verse whatever you might get at WallyWorld. Last of all it points to whether ONE CHOOSES to foster OR NOT a U.S. throw away consumer culture!

  10. #10
    Registered User Cadenza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpphoto View Post
    Osprey does the same thing for packs as Arc does, and they start at half the price.

    I have had 3 Osprey packs. Sold one of them, still have two.
    I also have 3 Arc'teryx packs. Believe me, there is no comparison!

    From design, to materials, to construction.....the Osprey at half the price is less than half the pack of an Arc'.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadenza View Post
    I have had 3 Osprey packs. Sold one of them, still have two.
    I also have 3 Arc'teryx packs. Believe me, there is no comparison!

    From design, to materials, to construction.....the Osprey at half the price is less than half the pack of an Arc'.
    I find that hard to believe. 420d nylon is 420d nylon. And triple stitched seams are triple stitched seams (or however many times these companies stitch a seam).

    The fact that you currently have four packs, 3 of which are Arcs, makes me think you just like spending money. For the rest of us, there are brands with every bit the quality product and customer service at a fraction of the price of Arc and Patty.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    You may be missing some points. First, Arc'teryx gear has LONG useful lives many yrs beyond some of the itsy bitsy UL or shabbily built sometimes pricey in its own right outdoor gear. It's bomber gear. It's designed and built by those that live adventure in often extreme and/or abrasive places, useful for, but well beyond, adventure in the sense of fringe UL hiking/thru-hiking on established maintained trails! It's gear for when extreme needs are involved but I find equally useful employing at other times.

    Arc/teryx is a company based in Vancouver British Columbia Canada that designs and builds highly functional highest quality long term reliable gear for adventuring with no compromises. I 100% agree with Arc'teryx when they state their paramount design process goals are quality, durability, and absolute reliability. This they take much pride in. IMHO, Arc'teryx goes beyond being just another run of the mill quality gear manufacturer with a return policy. In short, they are not designing throw away in a short time gear! It's also why some S&R teams, Rangers, LEOs, professional guides, mountaineers, remote back country stationed/working personnel, combat professionals, etc have chosen Arc'teryx products.

    It's not unheard of to get 15 yrs use out of a decently constructed and maintained Arc'teryx jacket. It's obvious by Cadenza's pics he's taken care of his jackets. That repaired jacket before it was repaired obviously had more yrs of useful service beyond the cord seam opening up and tangled/disintegrating cord issue. I think Arc'teryx Customer Service knew this jacket was NOT worn out beyond reasonable repair by Cadenza submitting some good pics of the jacket and issues in question. I wouldn't be surprised to learn Cadenza shared with Customer Service the number of gear pieces he has from Arc'teryx. I would think it points to Cadenza as a loyal Arc'teryx customer and conscientious maintainer of his Arc'teryx jackets and the long term functional reliability of Arc'teryx gear.

    Arc'teryx Warranty as it pertains to Cadenza's seam and cord issues:
    What is and isn't covered under the Warranty Policy? Defects in materials or workmanship are covered for the practical lifetime of the product. Material refers to zippers, buckles and fabrics. Workmanship refers to seams, seam tape and construction. Damage due to wear and tears such as rips, tears, abrasion or UV degradation, misuse or neglect is not covered under our warranty policy but may be repairable for a fee.
    What does 'practical Lifetime of the product' mean? We build our products to last over extended periods of use, but nothing lasts indefinitely. Materials will deteriorate and fade over time and moving parts will wear out. We will cover your product under our warranty policy until such a time that we have deemed the product to be worn out beyond reasonable repair. If the product is showing the signs of its age—for instance, the material has become thin or faded, there are rips and tears, the zippers no longer catch, the cuffs are fraying, or the soles are worn—we will take this into consideration when assessing your product for a warranty request. All gear will suffer from differing degrees of wear-and-tear, depending upon the user. Equipment used by an outdoor guide for 150 days a year will by comparison, degrade faster than gear used by a weekend skier. By taking care of your equipment you will ensure a longer lifetime for your gear. We recommend that you visit our Product Care page for more information on how to wash and care for your equipment. Use your judgment when assessing whether your product is likely to be covered under our warranty policy. It may simply be time to replace your product, and we hope that Arc'teryx will have the opportunity to provide you with superior quality products and service in the future.

    It would seem plane to me both Arc'teryx and Cadenza lived up to what was expected of themselves which is quite pleasant to witness both from a gear company and outdoor enthusiast. Cadenza aptly demonstrates a valid customer service under warranty issue according to Arc'teryx's WELL COMMUNICATED Warranty Policy and how to wisely go about submitting a warranty claim. Cadenza, by all that he shared, amply demonstrates he was NOT abusing a Return Policy. This is not the same as what happened at REI as REI has related it!

    Good for Cadenza. And, good for Arc'teryx by not just marketing a bunch of yakkety yak or covering their arses with ridgid inflexible lame arse in the name of profit Return Policy changes as other companies have but standing behind what it designs and manufactures obviously living up to EXACTLY what it claims!
    I have to agree with Cadenza, "I have been recommending Arc'teryx products to people for years,....with the caveat that they are "hideously expensive."
    Lots of companies offer guarantees and waranties. Few deliver like my experience with Arc.
    If something is guaranteed for life, and the company stands behind the product, then the price is not so hideous."
    TLDR - If you like Arc'teryx, then buy it. I'm sure you realize that they were owned by adidas through Salomon, though, so it's hardly an exclusive pedigree (I can see a Arc'teryx line of camp shoes for Spring '16 based on adidias "prison sandals" but at 35X the price...) Salomon is now owned by another holding company, and outsourced Arc'teryx production to the same countries (Vietnam, Laos, Bangladesh, etc.) as all the rest of the gear makers. I also see more Arc'teryx on hipsters in NYC in a day that I do in a week on the trail, so I suspect the brand is hitting its North Face phase.

    My main point is that using a jacket for 15 years and sending it back in tatters for a replacement is a bit much. I think
    Arc'teryx did a good job in subtley making this point to the OP by taking the time to remanufacture his jacket and not sending a new one.
    Last edited by Offshore; 09-08-2015 at 14:07.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    That's a good example of the differences between buying and properly caring for a jacket manufactured by who knows under whom's design(probably ripped off from some other company that invested R&D dollars and that actually LIVE AND BREATHE what they design and manufacture) and with short cut mass manufacturing cheapest labor guidelines built in who knows where(I can guess with some accuracy China) verse buying a Arc'teryx jacket where all that can be followed through the design and manufacturing process. Needless, to say but also points to the differences in follow up long term HIGH QUALITY CUSTOMER SERVICE where professional communication is a matter of habit verse whatever you might get at WallyWorld. Last of all it points to whether ONE CHOOSES to foster OR NOT a U.S. throw away consumer culture!
    I am not saying don't buy one of their jackets or that they are overpriced. Simply saying if I was to buy one of their rain jackets at their price with a lifetime warrentee, I would feel no guilt in having it be the last rain jacket I buy and if it needed repairing sending it back for a repair.
    Love people and use things; never the reverse.

    Mt. Katahdin would be a lot quicker to climb if its darn access trail didn't start all the way down in Georgia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    TLDR - If you like Arc'teryx, then buy it. I'm sure you realize that they were owned by adidas through Salomon, though, so it's hardly an exclusive pedigree (I can see a Arc'teryx line of camp shoes for Spring '16 based on adidias "prison sandals" but at 35X the price...) Salomon is now owned by another holding company, and outsourced Arc'teryx production to the same countries (Vietnam, Laos, Bangladesh, etc.) as all the rest of the gear makers. I also see more Arc'teryx on hipsters in NYC in a day that I do in a week on the trail, so I suspect the brand is hitting its North Face phase.

    My main point is that using a jacket for 15 years and sending it back in tatters for a replacement is a bit much. I think
    Arc'teryx did a good job in subtley making this point to the OP by taking the time to remanufacture his jacket and not sending a new one.
    Consolidation is very profitable no doubt. Since we're talking gear IMO TNF has raised the bar with a few of their newer lines. Glad to see that. TNF is hipster fashionable though. To some extent, but nowhere the level of TNF, Arc'teryx has experienced some outdoor fashionista wearing in town appeal. Damn, my one Arc/teryx soft-shell is so damn off the rack good looking with as new performance even after 6 yrs of mostly in town use I feel reluctant to submit it to climbing and mountaineering use.

    Seriously, look at Cadenza's photo of his yet to be repaired jacket. Even though it is 15 yrs old it certainly doesn't look from the pics to be in tatters.

    One of the reasons why you don't see many Arc'teryx jackets "on the trail"(I guess by that you mean the AT?) is certainly due to the up front cost. BUT AGAIN, MANY don't see the absolute need for such high levels of durability and reliability on something like the very non remote very non extreme AT.

    Outsourcing manufacturing as part of a companies global competiveness in the market place is not my main concern. It is when outsourcing to countries with largely unskilled labor manufacturing work forces are habitually sourced with shoddy cost cutting lower quality control manufacturing standards are the norm that I start taking greater notice as someone who relies on a high degree of reliable performance under extreme(i.e; non AT thru-hiking standards) conditions. No, I too would not take along even my lightest wt Arc'teryx jacket on a fair season UL AT hike/thru-hike. It's not necessary. When it is I'll grab an Arc'teryx jacket.

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    I see A LOT of shoddy manufacturing and construction coming out of China these days. That's not to say that all the Chinese work force is at that same level and outside employed by all companies. There is definitely some higher level manufacturing coming out of China too! However, for the most part, Wally World is not one of the companies I trust as being one of the companies regularly seeking out higher levels of manufacturing and construction skills as a norm.

  16. #16
    Registered User Cadenza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpphoto View Post
    I find that hard to believe. 420d nylon is 420d nylon. And triple stitched seams are triple stitched seams (or however many times these companies stitch a seam).

    The fact that you currently have four packs, 3 of which are Arcs, makes me think you just like spending money. For the rest of us, there are brands with every bit the quality product and customer service at a fraction of the price of Arc and Patty.


    Wow. When I posted the testimonial above it was simply trying to give a thumbs up to a company that has proven quality to me. I never imagined the haters and naysayers responses.
    But, people are entitled to their own opinions.

    420d is 420d may be true. But none of my Arc packs are 420d. Some materials used by Arc may be textiles that no one else has.
    Triple stitched seams aren't necessarily the same when you closely examine the types of threads and quality of stitching.
    The now discontinued Naos 85 is unlike anything Osprey ever dreamed of.

    I don't know where you came up with the number four. I actually have over a dozen packs, three of which are Arc'teryx, two Mystery Ranch, two original Dana Designs, a ULA Circuit, a couple of Ospreys, a Deuter, a Frost River,....etc. I have different packs for different types of trips. From fast and light weekends, to a week in the rain, to extended stay in harsh winter conditions. I'm also into old school classic camping with turn of the century technology,....thus the canvas Frost River Isle Royale.

    It doesn't mean I like spending money. It means I've accumulated different packs over many years. I have packs that are older than you are!
    My original Dana Design Terraplane still looks almost new and it is almost as old as you. I take care of my gear. In the case of the Terraplane, it doesn't quite fit me so I don't use it much. It fits my 25 year old son better and I will pass it down to him someday. It's practically a collector's item precisely because it is a well made classic.

    You and anyone else are welcome to 420d triple stitched cheap Chinese made gear. (I have some of that too!)
    I simply wanted to take the time to express my appreciation of a company that stood behind their product when I inquired about a repair. I might add that I was willing to pay for the repair but the subject never came up.
    Last edited by Cadenza; 09-09-2015 at 21:08.

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    I love me some Arcteryx. When gram weenies are throwing away their 10th set of frogg toggs, I'm just getting into the 10th year of using my Alpha SV jacket. It's even a giant step above my old Marmot Minima paclite goretex jacket which began developing holes after 2 years of use. A wasted $200 for the Marmot? Yup. Could've saved this cash for the Alpha purchase.

    The Alpha has saved my butt on dozens of cold wet winter trips and it's still going strong. Proshell gtx is where it's at---and the longevity bushwack factor is second to none. I.E., go offtrail into rhodo and brambles and you'll still have a rain jacket for more trips next year.


    I should become a male model for Arcteryx. Too cold? Too windy? Too much sleet? A 150 hour January rainstorm? Strap on the old Arc and you'll survive.

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    "I have different packs(kits, jacket, et) for different types of trips. From fast and light weekends, to a week in the rain, to extended stay in harsh winter conditions."

    Couldn't have said it better than Cadenza or Tipi. Different trips, different adventuring/backpacking activities/philosophies/locations where the trips involve extremes like mountaineering, climbing, above treeline exposed traverses, extreme adventuring, remote routes/trails, off season/non fair season/FOUL weather/highly mixed conditions, etc. may require greater or different kit considerations. Not everyone limits their adventures to maintained or frequently traveled highly sociable trails in fair weather with umpteen road crossings, regular pre layed out shelters, endless documentation/signage/blazing/written guides/etc, or with likely assistance close at hand nor does everyone wish to regularly splurge for gear that is prone to breaking down. Mind you all that comes from one with a typical UL mindset.

  19. #19
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    Awesome story. thanks for sharing.
    gotta love good service and warranty!

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    Registered User Cadenza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Proshell gtx is where it's at---

    I think this one snippet about sums it up.

    The word "armor" has been used, and it is an apt term. Blackberry briars that would shred a Paclite will slide off the N80p-X GORE-TEX® Pro 3L like a greased pig.

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