Capilene Vs Merino

[Cotton Terry]

For my 2016 thruhike, I'm planning on using the Under Armor Heat Gear short sleeve undershirt (which I'll wear all the time) with the Smartwool 250 midweight when needed. I still have on my gear list an REI fleece AND a Marmot Zeus down jacket. I know I don't need the fleece and the Zeus, but I can't decide which one to leave behind. I've rationalized the Zeus will be warmer, but the fleece better in wet conditions. Sorry for taking this off the topic of base layers. Suggestions?

[Tundracamper]

I had been thinking about "upgrading" to Merino but quickly changed my mind after trying on a mid weight IceBreaker top. I could not get it off fast enough it itched so bad.

Do all Merino brands have the same feel and wear - or might it be possible to find a non-itchy layer for myself? I have some synthetics that are quiet comfy.


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[Dogwood]

Maybe, there are individuals allergic in some degree to wool or are very sensitive but merino is an ultra fine thin long stranded wool that when knitted in loops has a extremely soft hand. Absolutely, through the processing and grading of merino wool it can affect it being itchy/itchier though through the addition of chemicals, dying, washing, shearing, spinning, knitting, looping, combing, etc



Ultra fine merino strands are longer and the sheath smoother compared to other types of lower grades of wool leaving it softer and in the proper knitting of merino buries the ends of the strands into the material that might make some itch. Cheaper lower grade wool is a shorter fiber and through the processing exposes more of the pointed ends and rougher scaled sheath to the touch.



I'm not a seamstress but I can say for sure different merino torso apparel next to my skin as a base layer can have a significantly different feel.



And again, some merino torso base layer apparel, like the Icebreaker, Ibex and Smartwool I listed, are rather form fitting or have slim athletic fits. Possibly a looser/roomier/less restrictive fitting ultrafine merino base layer could be the ticket to an itchless merino experience.



If you don't have an allergic reaction when wearing merino socks you probably are not allergic to merino. It's something in the processing that's causing the itch.

[Vegan Packer]

I like Capilene if it has the odor retardent added.

I think that Patagonia is now applying this treating to all models in the line.

[gbolt]

For my 2016 thruhike, I'm planning on using the Under Armor Heat Gear short sleeve undershirt (which I'll wear all the time) with the Smartwool 250 midweight when needed. I still have on my gear list an REI fleece AND a Marmot Zeus down jacket. I know I don't need the fleece and the Zeus, but I can't decide which one to leave behind. I've rationalized the Zeus will be warmer, but the fleece better in wet conditions. Sorry for taking this off the topic of base layers. Suggestions?

Not taking it off topic at all. I have heard good things about UA Heat Gear (through an athletic sport side); but beware that it often is too "hot" when used as a single layer for a thru hike. The Marmot Zeus is more of a non hiking camp outer layer for early starts. The REI fleece may still be needed for a hiking layer. I moved away from fleece to a Cap 4 Pro Zip because it was lighter weight for warmth ratio. Therefore, I don't really use a fleece mid layer. I do have a fleece vest that I think about but haven't used it in a shakedown hike as of yet. Your on the right path.

Dogwood... thanks for your responses. Very insightful and well thought out. It's now down to the Ibex Indie, if I can get the cost down...or an Icebreaker 150 long sleeve that is currently going for $44. The wash instructions were very interesting. However, I was under the impression that on a thru hike...most just threw everything into one load for washing and then drying. Maybe the reason that clothing only last one long hike trip. The last thing to decide is what size? I know if I want athletic fit then it's a Large. So I am thinking to be safe and give some room for error to go XL.

This is a great thread! It swayed me from Capiline to Merino for some appllications and hikes; while reinforcing my love of Polyester for some hikes and shirts.

[fastfoxengineering]

I use a melanzana microgrid hoody mostly. Not technical garment, the 100 wt weighs 11.5 oz, but super comfortable and i basically live in it for week at a time. The hood is awesome design, becomes balaclava. With a light fleece beanie under the hood, my head is good down to 30 F for sleeping with quilt.

You kinda sold me on one of these. After looking them up they look awesome. Whats even better is they don't have the technical clothing look. Nice when your just trying to blend in when in a town.

[Cotton Terry]

Whatever you use, it'll be light years better than what Earl Shaffer had and he made it. Don't forget to put sand in your boots to toughen up your feet.

[Connie]

Not all merino is equal.

My first experience was at a store that had several brands on one clothing sales rack.

I couldn't believe the difference in texture and softness.

I decided I wouldn't purchase merino unless I was in a store to touch the fabric.

I found Icebreaker merino half-zip in a Portland, OR outdoor store marked down. I purchased that one. Now I have an Icebreaker merino balaclava, as well. I find the Icebreaker I am interested in purchasing and watch for it to be marked down because I just can't bring myself to pay the full retail price.

I think you can't go wrong with Icebreaker brand for quality and for softness.

[Del Q]

I love Merino up top, switched to Cap 4 last hike for bottoms, happier. Much lighter, great gear.

[Tipi Walter]

Sorry for the delay and leaving this Thread as a Cohutta trip interrupted me.

Here's the Answer to my own question regarding Merino Vs Capilene---I went the capilene route and will be dispensing with my silk long sleeve baselayer and smartwool merino midlayers (holed and worn out anyway) and going with this:

** Patagonia large Lightweight crew long sleeve baselayer. (With North Face hiking t-shirt over this baselayer for general hiking and backpacking). Gotta have a stand-alone t-shirt for those warm days of backpacking.)
** Patagonia large Midweight crew long sleeve over baselayer.
** Patagonia x-large Thermal Weight zip-neck hoody over these two.

This system is lighter than merino and will dry much faster than my merinos. And while silk is comfortable against the skin, it gets moist with sweat and takes forever to dry (and feels clammy) whereas the capilene is better in this regard. Over all this crap is my Polartec 300 fleece jacket---and a down Parka in severe cold.

[Just Bill]

old dog, new tricks
I still like to use a Merino 1 (as opposed to the lightweight crew), but that's the only merino piece I'll buy again.
Seems to be about one season or so then retirement... I think you'll find the Capeline to last 2-4 times as long as Merino on the other layers and less likely to cut into your Amy's veggie burrito budget.

Might consider the Patagonia Nano-Puff in the late spring (when it goes on sale) to swap with your Fleece... Though you'll find that closer to a 200wt in warmth.
All the wet performance benefits of fleece with less bulk and weight... unless you're depending on the bulk so it can't compress- which fleece is still king (Though a MYOG Apex vest or jacket is close).

[Tipi Walter]

Fleece bulk is minor when I can stuff loose fleece down the inside recesses of my pack or wad it up and keep it under the top lid of the pack.

My Amy's veggie chili budget has taken a tough blow with the purchase of these new Patagonia layers: THEY AIN'T CHEAP! But heck, it's a rare upgrade with as you say a better longevity record.

And merino layers are heavy. Take forever to dry when clammy and/or wet. Will my Patagonia stink?? Merino never did. It feels like I'm back in my old polypropylene days of 1978.

[Just Bill]

I haven't had any stink issues with capeline in general... one or two of my Cap 1's get a little funky here and there... hence the Merino 1 remaining in the rotation.
That said, we do cloth diapers for the kiddos so every couple months I just do a load of them with ECO SPROUT.
http://www.amazon.com/Sprout-Laundry.../dp/B0066Y0VD0

Though still stuck with a desk job, thankfully I can mostly wear what I want to work so I wear all this stuff pretty well year round.

Generally speaking... March and October are inventory turn-overs for Patagonia.
The sales start as 30, 40, and 50% off finally for the big one. The risk being that with each sale they sell out of stuff and you may not get what you want.
But now that you know what you like, and what fits... just patiently sit in yer Hilleberg and watch for the sales. You can sign up on the website for notice, drool suitably over the new offerings in the catalouge, tear out the pages you are interested to remind you come sale time and tinder pile the rest. Some years I get stuff, other years I don't. I've probably got a good 20 pieces now over 5 years and all at least 40% off.

It can be annoying to wait 2 years to get that Cap 4 hoody, but yer a patient fella.
And when they are in stock, I buy an extra if I can.

As a result I have some pretty ugly colors of stuff and interesting outfits, but like me your natural good looks, long hair, and charm will likely carry you through any fashion mishaps that may occur if anyone stops gawking at yer pack long enough to notice. And thankfully the trend towards neon pig tongue, violent indigo sunrise and chartreuse sunset color schemes seems to have passed for a few years. We're back to turtle head browns, El Cap granites, and desert sand for a few cycles I think.

[redseal]

My wife just wrote a review on Woolx and their merino wool base layers. Both of us are amazed at how soft their products are! If curious to know more, here is the review she wrote: http://www.backpackingengineer.com/g...ht-collection/

[Tipi Walter]

My wife just wrote a review on Woolx and their merino wool base layers. Both of us are amazed at how soft their products are! If curious to know more, here is the review she wrote: http://www.backpackingengineer.com/g...ht-collection/

It's the common story with fine merino baselayers---people either love them or not. Clearly you guys love them. And I do too---who wouldn't love something so wonderful and soft and comfy? I burned all my new Patagonia capilene layers and will return to merino. JUST KIDDING!!

But yes, merino Ibex or Icebreakers or Smartwools are dang nice and comfortable---why so many backpackers love them. But as mentioned, they are heavy and when wet take forever to dry. The only merinos I'm taking out on my next trip are my leggings. Full report forthcoming, God willing and the creeks don't rise.

[shelb]

I do the opposite. I find merino much more comfortable against my skin than synthetic.

Agreed! Plus, I find any synthetics stink very quickly with me! I can't even wear a synthetic shirt to work (teacher) without it reeking of BO at the end of the day!!

[Cadenza]

number one choice: Merino
number two choice: Silk
number three choice: ....uhm,....NO!

After two days with synthetics I smell like an acre of goats.
AND IT DOESN'T WASH OUT.

[Dogwood]

Tipi Walter - "And merino layers are heavy. Take forever to dry when clammy and/or wet."

When you said this I thought of this thread here on WB about 2 yrs ago and on BPL. The merino layers aren't all that much heavier and don't take forever to dry comparably. I think you have to consider what was said on that WB thread and what BPL researched. FWIW, I don't see a 1/3 to 50% dry times to be the end all be all when making these comparisons. When I'm carrying two tees possibly a synthetic or a wool/synthetic blend AND a 100% merino dry times play less of a critical role in many of my hiking/weather situations. And, again it appears we're falling into mistakenly seeing things in apparel as a duality...either synthetic or wool...and that is not the case. For example there are blends and new treatments of both merino and synthetics.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/arch...p/t-98385.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...l#.VlPbhPmrSUl

[Jim Adams]

to me there is no comparison....the wool has it!

[Deacon]

Somehow it's just ok to wear wool wet. Not uncomfortable, IMHO.