Grand Canyon Rim to Rim

[MomOfFive]

I am hoping to go with my husband and our 5 kids to hike Rim to Rim on the kids' Spring Break this coming March (2016). I made a miscalculation on the day I could request a backcountry permit and now I find myself behind the eight ball. The South Kaibab and Bright Angel trails are mostly booked so I am looking at alternative routes. However, I am having a really hard time finding the trails that connect together to get me from Rim to Rim. The backcountry permit office suggested I try Hermit (their recommended route for us), South Bass, New Hance or Tanner. On my backcountry permit request form, I have to list which campsites I will be using. Can anyone help me? So far, the only thing I THINK I can decipher is that I can take the Hermit Trail, stay at Boucher Creek the first night, Hermit Creek the second and come out at Hermit's Rest at the end of the trip. And, before this becomes a topic of concern, I hiked 9 days on the AT with 4 of my kids and no husband this summer, so our ability is not in question.

[colorado_rob]

I assume you mean rim to rim to rim, as the North rim access will not be open in March. So, you have to start and finish at the south rim, whichever series of trails you figure out. Are you saying Cottonwood Camp is booked? that one usually doesn't fill in March.

Still, fantastic time to be going, but expect some old snow on the North rim, but usually not too bad by about mid-March. Usually only the top mile or two will be snow packed.

[colorado_rob]

when I said north rim access is closed, I was referring to car access only. It opens in mid may.

[WingedMonkey]

Hermit trail is a favorite and I often recommend it to others.

However....It is not maintained and is somewhat rugged. How experienced is your family?

[HooKooDooKu]

With little hiking experience, my kids had no problem doing the South Kaibab to Bright Angle camp ground, and then the full length of Bright Angle the next day.

With your experience, can you make it down South Kaibab and up to Cottonwood in one day? Spend two nights at Cottonwood (going from Cottonwood to the North rim the 2nd day and back) and then from Cottonwood to South rim the 3rd day.

[CarlZ993]

I'll be there for Spring Break again this year w/ the Scouts (15th trip). I'd go down Hermit Trl instead of Boucher (really nasty) or Tanner (tough as well). Just take the shuttle bus or drive your car to the TH (your permit will give you the gate code to do this; normally closed & locked). Either stay @ Hermit Creek (7.6M) or Monument Creek (8.7M) the first night. I'd opt for Monument Creek. From there, you take Tonto Trl to Indian Gardens (10.7M). Don't count on water (either non-existent, nasty, or radioactive). From Indian Gardens, you decide whether or not you wish to hike out the following day (24M & 3,000' elev gain in 4.6M) or hike down to Bright Angel Camp/Phantom Ranch (~4.6M). From there, it is a long haul up to the S. Rim on either the Bright Angel Trail (thru Indian Gardens again) or S. Kaibab Trl.

Good luck in your permit process. Don't delay. They fill up REALLY fast!

[Shutterbug]

I am hoping to go with my husband and our 5 kids to hike Rim to Rim on the kids' Spring Break this coming March (2016). I made a miscalculation on the day I could request a backcountry permit and now I find myself behind the eight ball. The South Kaibab and Bright Angel trails are mostly booked so I am looking at alternative routes. However, I am having a really hard time finding the trails that connect together to get me from Rim to Rim. The backcountry permit office suggested I try Hermit (their recommended route for us), South Bass, New Hance or Tanner. On my backcountry permit request form, I have to list which campsites I will be using. Can anyone help me? So far, the only thing I THINK I can decipher is that I can take the Hermit Trail, stay at Boucher Creek the first night, Hermit Creek the second and come out at Hermit's Rest at the end of the trip. And, before this becomes a topic of concern, I hiked 9 days on the AT with 4 of my kids and no husband this summer, so our ability is not in question.

I will be pleased to respond to your questions; however, I first need to understand what you want to do.

You said that Bright Angel and South Kaibab Trails are booked. The permits are not for trails, they are for backcountry camps. I assume that you mean that Indian Garden and Bright Angel Campgrounds are booked.

As others have said, there is no access to the North Rim that early in the year, so a Rim to Rim in March isn't practical.

Even when Bright Angel Campgroung is full one can usually get a permit to camp near the Clear Creek Trail two miles east of Phantom Ranch. It has been my experience that Clear Creek has openings. Consider doing a hike to Clear Creek as a substitute for the Rim to Rim. Hike down the South Kaibab to the Clear Creek Trail the first day. Camp 2 miles from Phantom Ranch. On day two, hike to Clear Creek. When you are ready, hike back to the campsite near Phantom Ranch, then hike out on the Bright Angel Trail.

[MomOfFive]

Is it possible to camp at the North Rim in March? Or is that closed until May 15 as well? We are open to Cottonwood in one day. I didn't realize it had higher availability but that makes sense since most don't go to the North Rim in March.


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[colorado_rob]

Is it possible to camp at the North Rim in March? Or is that closed until May 15 as well? We are open to Cottonwood in one day. I didn't realize it had higher availability but that makes sense since most don't go to the North Rim in March.


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I doubt if you can camp on the NR in March, sorry! HooKooDooKu's itinerary might work for you. Expanding: Leave early to avoid crowds and Mules, hike down the Kaibab trail to river, about 2.5-3 hours, relax a bit at Phantom Ranch, then up to Cottonwood camp, about 3 more hours, 7 miles, relatively gentle grade. Camp the night, next day do a spectacular roundtrip to the North rim and back, about 14 miles, with daypacks, of course, camp another night at Cottonwood. Next day hike all the way out via the Bright Angel trail. It really isn't that bad. 2+ hours down to Phantom, rest up, then 3-4 hours to Indian gardens, have another nice rest there. Finally, 3-4 hours to the South Rim. I've done this more times than I can count (15+?).

Of course all of this hiking is on the two most popular trails, but you should avoid most of the crowds except for your final hike out up the Bright Angel trail. The North BA trail (from Phantom to the North Rim) is simply spectacular, especially above CW camp. Of course the entire corridor is amazing, you can't go wrong in the Grand Canyon. Just booked our early April R-R-R trip.... 14 years running.... well, these days only walking....

[Odd Man Out]

...Even when Bright Angel Campgroung is full one can usually get a permit to camp near the Clear Creek Trail two miles east of Phantom Ranch. It has been my experience that Clear Creek has openings. Consider doing a hike to Clear Creek as a substitute for the Rim to Rim. Hike down the South Kaibab to the Clear Creek Trail the first day. Camp 2 miles from Phantom Ranch. On day two, hike to Clear Creek. When you are ready, hike back to the campsite near Phantom Ranch, then hike out on the Bright Angel Trail.

I didn't realize that at-large camping was allowed in the Clear Creek use area. At what point are you allowed to camp? I haven't been able to find a good map of the use areas on-line. Could Horn Creek or Cremation also be used to break up this hike in or out? I too have been planning a GC hike but not gotten there yet and always looking for options. I worry however that these sites are all require dry camping (not by water) off the corridor trails. The conventional wisdom is that corridor trails are best for GC beginners (which would also include me). I wonder if that would advice would also apply to the OP?

[Coffee]

Winter camping is permitted at the North Rim campground with a wilderness permit. I've never done it myself. But the North Rim campground is one of my favorite developed campgrounds anywhere.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cg-nr.htm

[Wil]

Clear Creek Trail is a great suggestion. The times mentioned here from South Rim to Cottonwood are for very fast hikers and it would be a shame to race through such a wonderful place. There is going to be ice and snow on the trail from Cottonwood to the North Rim.

If I were committed to try a Rim to Rim to Rim (and with permits for Bright Angel Camp & Indian Garden out of the picture) I would do SRim to Clear Creek Trail (2 mils up & in) for day 1. Backtrack down to NKaibab Trail & to Cottonwood Camp day 2 (with a stopover at Ribbons Falls on the way). A day trip attempt for the NRim & back to Cottonwood for day 3 (and even turning back from near the top is still a wonderful trip). Either a long march out back to SRim or better yet a break night (if you've got time) back up to the same spot on Clear Creek, or at Horn Creek near Indian Garden, or in Use Area AP9 on Utah Flats above Phantom Ranch (which would also be an alternative to a Clear Creek permit on the way in).

[Wil]

Cremation, mentioned above, was never a great resource for this kind of RRR and is now less so with some camping area gerrymandering and campsite destruction by the Kops.

[MomOfFive]

Guys, thanks so much. This is great info. I can't wait to call the Backcountry Permit office tomorrow and see if this will work. Keep the ideas coming!


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[Shutterbug]

Winter camping is permitted at the North Rim campground with a wilderness permit. I've never done it myself. But the North Rim campground is one of my favorite developed campgrounds anywhere.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cg-nr.htm

The problem with the North Rim isn't so much a permit. It is the ice on the trail. In March, the trail from Roaring Springs to the North Rim is covered with ice (depending on the year.). Four years ago, during the last week of March, I was caught in a significant snow storm on the Bright Angel Trail. Those attempting to make it north of Cottonwood Camp on the North Kaibab had to turn back.

[Shutterbug]

I didn't realize that at-large camping was allowed in the Clear Creek use area. At what point are you allowed to camp? ...

Camping is allowed two miles from the North Kaibab Trail. Most people camp in a flat area south of the Clear Creek Trail at the two mile marker (large cairns on both sides of the trail), or camp at Clear Creek.

[colorado_rob]

The problem with the North Rim isn't so much a permit. It is the ice on the trail. In March, the trail from Roaring Springs to the North Rim is covered with ice (depending on the year.). Four years ago, during the last week of March, I was caught in a significant snow storm on the Bright Angel Trail. Those attempting to make it north of Cottonwood Camp on the North Kaibab had to turn back.

A rare year. I was there the first weekend of April myself. Not so much ice as packed snow, with a tad of ice. I've been doing this stretch for 14 years straight and that was a banner year for snow. Most years should be zero problem, just some packed stuff above the Supai tunnel, easily navigable.

[Shutterbug]

I am hoping to go with my husband and our 5 kids to hike Rim to Rim on the kids' Spring Break this coming March (2016). I made a miscalculation on the day I could request a backcountry permit and now I find myself behind the eight ball. The South Kaibab and Bright Angel trails are mostly booked so I am looking at alternative routes. However, I am having a really hard time finding the trails that connect together to get me from Rim to Rim. The backcountry permit office suggested I try Hermit (their recommended route for us), South Bass, New Hance or Tanner. On my backcountry permit request form, I have to list which campsites I will be using. Can anyone help me? So far, the only thing I THINK I can decipher is that I can take the Hermit Trail, stay at Boucher Creek the first night, Hermit Creek the second and come out at Hermit's Rest at the end of the trip. And, before this becomes a topic of concern, I hiked 9 days on the AT with 4 of my kids and no husband this summer, so our ability is not in question.

One more comment -- the size of your family limits the campsites available to you. Parties with 6 or less have access to most campsites. Parties of 7 to 11 must use "group sites." Perhaps you could talk the Rangers into not counting one of your children -- it is worth a try. Ask the Ranger, "What is the worst thing that will happen if I get caught with 7 on a six person permit?"

[Shutterbug]

A rare year. I was there the first weekend of April myself. Not so much ice as packed snow, with a tad of ice. I've been doing this stretch for 14 years straight and that was a banner year for snow. Most years should be zero problem, just some packed stuff above the Supai tunnel, easily navigable.

Colorado Rob, when is your hike in 2016? I have a permit for Easter week. My wife and I enjoy attending the Easter Sunrise Service at the Grand Canyon, then hiking into the Canyon.

I agree with you that in most years an experienced hiker can do a rim to rim to rim in March, but I question trying to do it with 5 kids as a first hike in the Grand Canyon. For first-time hikers in the Grand Canyon, I recommend a day hike to Indian Garden. Jumping into a rim to rim to rim as one's first Grand Canyon is risky.

[Dogwood]

Individual and group situations are always in question! What part of the AT did your 4 kids and you do? What time of the yr was it? What was your group's avg daily mileage? How many hrs of the day on that 9 day trip were actually spent on the move?/how many hrs doing other non-hiking things? How did your family and YOU deal with the group logistics on that AT trip ie; on avg how fast does your family get moving in the morn(WHEN it's below freezing?), ages of kids, EVER been to GCNP previously? are you aware of water conditions at that time of the yr? How much time have you allotted for your GCNP trip? Seems you haven't done much research so far. Have you apprised yourself of the typical avg weather in March on NOT ONLY the N. Rim but also the S. Rim? Being from central Fla you need to be aware nights will be below freezing at BOTH the N and S Rims. Fairly certain snow and ice will be on the ground at the N. Rim in the vicinity of the N Kaibab TH. It is not unheard of for ice and/or snow to some degree to exist at the S. Rim in March. Patches of ice, maybe snow linger in shady areas at the rims and to some degree on the trails into April which slows travel especially needed with 5 children in tow on possibly steep trail. No services or motor vehicle access will be open at the N.Rim so as it's been said it's a rim to rim to rim excursion you're looking at.

Unless you and you're family, which includes 5 children, I'm assuming all/mostly adolescents, that's a 7 person party, are exceptionally above the avg in that family situation, I would not advise doing much more than 12 mile days going down to the river from the S. Rim and certainly not heading back up. What others do is one thing and you would be best to consider your situation in all your planning rather than what is appropriate for others. I agree with Shutterbug and would advise it to the OP: "... in most years an experienced hiker can do a rim to rim to rim in March, but I question trying to do it with 5 kids as a first hike in the Grand Canyon. For first-time hikers in the Grand Canyon, I recommend..." something else in March.

I'm also glad to see that Shutterbug brought up the group size situation and regs.