Proper terminology

[gumby]

Hello all of you Whiteblazers,

Let me start off with this. I have received quite a bit of information from this site for my upcoming thru in a few years and I plan on keeping up with WB happenings as much as I have been. I hope this thread will not diminsh your feeling to me.

I have one problem, I am not a Christian, I do not harbor any bad feelings to those that are, as a matter of fact I don't care what religion you are. What I am is Wiccan (also referred to as Pagan), we Wiccans refer to ourselves as Witches. Yes, men are witches also. We belive in only good, we don't sacrifice animals nor do we believe in Satan or Heaven or Hell. We do believe in reincarnation. We have several rules or Laws that we follow.
The law of return means that you will receive what you give, if you are bad then bad thigs will happen, etc. Much akin to Karma.
We also believe in nature and more than one diety. Our creator is the Goddess.
Our major law is the Wiccan rede, "an ye harm none, do as you will". Simply stated you can do as please as long as it does not hurt anything.
A good web site for more info is: http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm

There are 82 threads on WB that use the term Christian when someone has given something to someone in a chartiable fashion. I give to charities and I gave to Miss Janet even though I haven't even met her yet.

There are many non-christians out there that might take offense to this. Jews, Bhuddists, Muslims to name a few. All I ask is that you take time to think about how much your words will affect people.

Not all non-christians are bad, just like all christians are not all good.

Think about it, if you wish to make this a religous battle so be it, I will not participate though. These are my feelings and I wish to remain friends with each and every one of you.

Thanks
Gumby

[MisterSweetie]

Not all non-christians are bad, just like all christians are not all good.

Ha, how many times did I have to read that to assure myself of what you meant. Not that it matters to me, I just didn't want to read you wrong.

[the goat]

so you consider the use of the word "Christian" as inciting a religious battle?

i haven't been able to find on this site where anyone said "all non-christians are bad".

am i missing something

[gumby]

so you consider the use of the word "Christian" as inciting a religious battle?

i haven't been able to find on this site where anyone said "all non-christians are bad".

am i missing something

No Goat, I just have read enough threads where someone take things the wrong way and starts a battle of wits, Take for example the thread about SGT Rock, MOST everyone was giving their support no matter of their personal feelings of the Iraq situation. Some did put their personal views that were not warranted.

No one said that "all non-Christians were bad", however some threads seem to sound that only christians were charitable.

and no you are not missing something. As a matter of fact I extremely enjoys your thread and your replies.

Gumby

[Lilred]

I'm not sure what the problem is either. This is not a christian site and whatever religion you practice is your business. Was something said to you inparticular regarding your religion? I'm not sure what made you feel you had to explain yourself, but as far as I'm concerned, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Some of my best friends are in the wiccan religion.....and I'm a christian. The trail is a great leveler. Don't worry about it.

[gumby]

I'm not sure what the problem is either. This is not a christian site and whatever religion you practice is your business. Was something said to you inparticular regarding your religion? I'm not sure what made you feel you had to explain yourself, but as far as I'm concerned, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Some of my best friends are in the wiccan religion.....and I'm a christian. The trail is a great leveler. Don't worry about it.

You are right, I have a sister-in-law that was living with us because she couldn't hold down a job and abused the hospitality we afforded to her. I even went to the extreme to put all my Wiccan items away so as not to upset her. She is a very Bible oriented person (if it isn't in the Bible it didn't happen), and my wife and I went out of our way to accomadate her.
Well, she never understood me nor my way of life, nor did she even try to understand it. We spent over 6 months with her giving use so much sh** that I reached my boiling point. She took so much advantage of us that we will have a very small Christmas because she used up all of our savings to help support her and her son.

I guess today that I felt that I needed to let off some steam.

Let me say this, If I upset someone I apoligize and that is from the heart.

Gumby

[QHShowoman]

Hmmm. Interesting post. I am not a christian. I am not really anything as far as the spectrum of organized religion goes. With that said, I don't take offense to the term "christian charity" (not that I actually use the term) because I always assumed that the term was being used colloquially, and not literally ... but maybe that's where the problem lies.

To play devil's advocate (I apologize in advance if this term offends any satanists out there), if I were a christian and felt that something I did constituted good "christian charity," I suppose it might be offensive to me to NOT be able to refer to it as such for fear of whom I might offend. For example, should I not decorate my house for christmas because it might offend my jewish neighbors?

The bottom line is, everyone has different boundaries when it comes to what offends them and while I think it is reasonable to urge WB members to think carefully about the terminology they use, its nearly impossible not to offend SOMEONE here if you are an active member. As much as I'd like to think that this is a place where anyone feels welcome, sadly its not ... and the reasons why extend far beyond the use of the term "christian charity."

Heck, it is beyond me why some folks here seem to not be able to understand that this is a DISCUSSION forum ... meaning that it should be okay for folks to disagree with their points of view without suffering the wrath of their personal attacks or inflammatory comments.

At any rate, if that term offends you Gumby, I'll do my best not to use it ... it shouldn't be hard for me.

[Lone Wolf]

Way too much PC BS in the world today.

[kyhipo]

well gumby i was a terrible alcoholic just couldnt drink at all and yes I am a lay minister now but people use the word christian in a broad term,when in fact no one has the right to treat others bad,I went thru a very simular situation with my sister recently,after being verbally attacked and attacked on my beliefs I just had to cut it off,so bottom line mean people stink ky

[Tha Wookie]

Way too much PC BS in the world today.

Yeah, what ever happened to the good 'ole days when we could offend anyone we wanted without reprimand?

[Tinker]

I am a "Christian", yet most of my "brothers" call me a host of names because I don't believe that God can be, will be, or ever has been, a man.

I'm well read enough in scripture to give my opponents much to think about, but the problem is that many have made up their minds already.

I do not think that just because someone espouses a title that they necessarily represent other title holders accurately, since we all are individuals and don't even agree on the definitions of words many times.

I also believe that God's people are neither Christian nor Jewish, necessarily, but those, who live holy to the best of their abilities, because they LOVE God, using Jesus Christ (meaning "anointed", as in King) as their role model.

Yes, I understand all too well that being excluded is sometimes more painful than open oppositon.

There are many wonderful people who don't believe as I do, and I'm thankful for their lives and good deeds.

[Mags]

Yeah, what ever happened to the good 'ole days when we could offend anyone we wanted without reprimand?

They are both sides of the same coin. Extremism is seldom good.

Call me a "dumb wop" is very offensive. Getting offended at "Shark's Tale" because they portray Italian-Americans in a bad light is equally ludicrous. [1]

Taking it a little less specific, it is good to be sensitive to a person's feelings. However, it can be overdone. Striking the balance can be hard. That is why many people find it easier to be extremists.


[1] This actually happended! Some Italian-American groups wanted to boycott the movie.. Sheesh.

[Rain Man]

There are many non-christians out there that might take offense to this. Jews, Bhuddists, Muslims to name a few. All I ask is that you take time to think about how much your words will affect people.

Gumby,

Also, there are many Christians who might take offense to that, too.

This is an extremely difficult for many "Christians" to deal with, or even to understand, as it is so ingrained in them and our culture. So it might be enlightening for some that you bring it up. I hope so.

One interesting thing for "Christians" to ponder is that in Jesus' day, the folks with the most religiosity and orthodoxy and the most public protests of piety and the claims of supremelism (my god/sect is bigger and better than your god/sect) were the very folks who "didn't get it" then, either.

If there's a correlation between public self-pronouncements of religiosity and actual religiosity, then I believe it's more often than not a reverse correlation. Like you, I don't really need to hear folks publicly pat themselves on their own backs claiming their "Christian" status. After all, even the Gospels teach to act in secret, then God will reward openly.

Anyway, Gumby, I think there are lots of Christians who might silently agree with you.

RainMan

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[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Realize that there can be two ways to use the term "christian"

1) One who follows Christ, aka someone who professes christianity

2) Someone who acts like Christ, Jesus was all about helping people, so using the term christian and charitable are somewhat synonymous. In many ways this usage actually predated the first.

I agree that there are certainly Christians (#1) who aren't very Christian (#2).

However, getting too offended at usage #2 is kind of like me complimenting a friend on a particularly wise saying "That was very Zen" and him responding "I'm NOT a Buddhist!"

PS - I realize that the above example is probably not correct as I really haven't taken too much time to time to study Eastern religions

[phatfish]

It's important for all wiccans to know their roots. http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1...chartlarge.gif

[gumby]

It's important for all wiccans to know their roots. http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1...chartlarge.gif

Obvisously you do not know our roots, I did not offend anyone, however you graphic is very offensive to me. Nothing in that chart is actual, Wiccans are not Satanists.

However, if you meant it as a joke so be it.

gumby

[Mags]

Obvisously you do not know our roots, I did not offend anyone, however you graphic is very offensive to me. Nothing in that chart is actual, Wiccans are not Satanists.

However, if you meant it as a joke so be it.

gumby

The Landover Baptist site is a parody of extreme Christianity. I don't think sensible people associate gardernnig with Wiccan or new age Paganism.

I do not know you personally, so I am not directing this comment to you.

But, I've noticed that extreme Christians and extremist of non-Christian religions often lack a sense of humor.

There were some jokes about Kansas Evangelicals at a camp fire one night. We laughed. I then made a joke about Buddists with $500 prayer mats (found in Boulder) and I got some dirty looks. :-)

Kinda like Ann Coulter and Michael Moore. Similar style of humor. Both have big egos. Different political views.

[Alligator]

When I was younger I thought about becoming a Buddist, but it would have meant giving up my water bed.

Being a young man, the water bed won out .

[Just Jeff]

HAHAHAHA....I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that picture!! That's the funniest thing I've seen in about six months! I'm still laughing!

I understand what you mean about some people commonly associating "good" with "christian" and having a hard time understanding that things like spirituality, charity, integrity and morality can stand independently from the Bible. Just because some people can't divorce morlaty from religion doesn't make it true. Though I've seen some folks make that link here on WB, I give them the benefit of the doubt because it's only a quick blurb in a post - I know I've written things here, and when I read it later it had a different tone than I intended. As long as no one is outright offensive, just let it go, man. You only have to convince yourself.

As for hiding stuff in your own house...you're on your own there.

[Ender]

It's important for all wiccans to know their roots. http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1...chartlarge.gif

Dude, that's funny. I forwarded it to a few wiccan friends of mine (as well as all my other friends) and they loved it. Nice...

I'm not christian, as a matter of full disclosure. A few of my less than PC non-christian friends refer to acting "christian" in the negative, refering to some of Christianity's less than stellar historical gaffs (inquisition (what a show), crusades, Salem witch trials, etc...). Turning the phrase around at those more pestering sort who insist that their way is the best.

Me... I try to accept all. I have athiest friends, agnostic friends, wiccan friends, Catholic friends, Christian friends, Jewish friends, Muslim friends, Hindi friends... even have a friend in seminary. I also try to find the humor in everything, as taking life too seriously made me quite miserable for a number of years until I just learned to let go and enjoy. And anything I can't just let go I try to ignore... usually works.