What are all these entry/exit Permit Strategies About?

[Puppy]

I'm confused about the John Muir Trail permits.

I've read that there are different permits for different 'entry and exit' points....and some are easier to get then others. And some are about impossible.

Why is this? Are some of the start and ending places a LOT better or something? Or are they the 'official' trail heads? Or are those the places that day hikers want?

Is it easier on ones that start at an 'approach trail' or something?

Thanks

[colorado_rob]

The "why is this" about the near impossibility of some permits is simply because of the very high popularity of the trail, and it starts in a ridiculously busy national park (Yosemite), if going southbound. I don't think starting at Happy Isles (the northern terminus of the trail) is "better" at all, except that it is one end. I much, much preferred my NOBO trek of the JMT, and highly recommend this to folks personally, but this advice will soon be crushed on here because of the immediate high-altitude aspects of going Northbound, and/or because folks everywhere tend to follow the herd. The permits NOBO are much easier to get and there are plenty of remedies for this altitude thing though, if in fact you're actually interested in doing the JMT, which some say, myself included, is the single most gorgeous trail in the USA.

Two other ways of mitigating the permit thing: do a flip-flop, starting both times at Bishop, kinda close to the middle. The other, actually recommended way by myself is to do the JMT much later in the year, like starting mid/late September. Fantastic weather in the Sierra's that time of year. Sure, there is a chance you'll get a dusting of snow, but probably no more than that. Permits are probably still tough going SOBO, but easier than in the mid/late summer.

[Dogwood]

Not everyone's JMT hike is the same. So many JMT hike variations it's inconceivable to me to try to analyze and explain them all even IF I adequately could.

The most popular JMT TH is Happy Isles TH in OFTEN BUSY Yosemite Valley in Yosemite NP. there's a HUGE amount of competition for JMT permits starting from this TH heading Southbound. Avoid a JMT itinerary that heads south from that starting TH is the first step in cutting down on JMT permit competition.

You are so very correct(I really like your 'approach trail' analysis) that a JMT hike CAN be looked at as having an 'approach trail' aspect to it making getting a permit for a hike that includes the JMT but is NOT entirely about the JMT less competitive to obtain. I like what you're suggesting. Maybe, it's because I've done exactly what your implying on several permits for my own JMT hikes. I like how you're thinking!

As far as what's "better" that can mean many different things. I will say FWIW it's the Sierra....HARD to go wrong scenically on a infinite number of hikes.

My advice, consider doing a Sierra hike involving the JMT but expanding to incorporate other trails/routes in that hike...just as how you defined an AT hike incorporating the "Approach Trail."

IF AT hikers did this more often, AND WERE ENCOURAGED MORE OFTEN, TO RECOGNIZE THE AT AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED, AS A COMPLEX OF INTERCONNECTED TRAILS, RATHER THAN A TRAIL THAT exists between Springer Mt and Mt Katahdin some issues such as thru-hiker bubbles, concentrated environmental impact, permits/AT permit changes(they are a coming!), etc could potentially more easily be addressed! Might result in hikers having a wider range of experiences and acquiring of a wider range of outdoor skill sets too!

[Dogwood]

The "why is this" about the near impossibility of some permits is simply because of the very high popularity of the trail, and it starts in a ridiculously busy national park (Yosemite), if going southbound. I don't think starting at Happy Isles (the northern terminus of the trail) is "better" at all, except that it is one end. I much, much preferred my NOBO trek of the JMT, and highly recommend this to folks personally, but this advice will soon be crushed on here because of the immediate high-altitude aspects of going Northbound, and/or because folks everywhere tend to follow the herd. The permits NOBO are much easier to get and there are plenty of remedies for this altitude thing though, if in fact you're actually interested in doing the JMT, which some say, myself included, is the single most gorgeous trail in the USA.

Two other ways of mitigating the permit thing: do a flip-flop, starting both times at Bishop, kinda close to the middle. The other, actually recommended way by myself is to do the JMT much later in the year, like starting mid/late September. Fantastic weather in the Sierra's that time of year. Sure, there is a chance you'll get a dusting of snow, but probably no more than that. Permits are probably still tough going SOBO, but easier than in the mid/late summer.

Another forward thinking poster. Like it all Colorado Rob.

What I like about CR's post is that it seeks solutions for an alternative JMT experience. Lucky Man and Saltysack who had recent JMT experiences, as discussed on other JMT threads, were of a similar solution oriented mindset. Coffee did something similar. All these folks took personal responsibility for THEIR HIKES by being wiling to find remedies rather than following the herd! *THIS is what the AT hiking community is critically currently in need of...! Approaching THEIR hikes BY THINKING ABOUT THEM FROM OUTSIDE OF THE BOX BY TAKING GREATER PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR HIKES!

[MuddyWaters]

Here is the problem:



More hikers than permits in the traditional SOBO way from yosemite, so people are now using other permit possibilities to access the JMT in other ways. Between 2011 and 2015, JMT hikers starting in Yosemite DOUBLED.

Dont worry, in short time these will all be completely unnavailable as well, because of the power of social media.

Unlike the ATC, the Forest Service and National Parks in California actually care about user experience and impacts.

The Sierra is awesome. The JMT is only a small part of it. There are trails all over it.

There is no "JMT permit" . Once you access the wilderness of the Sierra from a trailhead, you can go wherever you want, with a couple of restrictions:

Cannot exit wilderness and re-enter. There are some resupply exceptions, if its less than 24 hrs.
In Yosemite where you can camp the first night is restricted, and backtracking is prohibited to control traffic flow.
Yosemite also limits Donahue pass exits now for JMT access to limit impact.

The Whitney zone is restricted due to extremely high demand and use.

All the other options discussed, are ways for people to access the JMT, and hike most of it, with some kind of permit that is easier to get than starting in Yosemite.

[Puppy]

So... if I understand correctly - it sounds like the permits are actually to help prevent 'big bubbles' at certain trailheads/beginning points.....and as long as you are flexible and start a little further back (20 miles for example) everything is so much easier?

[Puppy]

Two other ways of mitigating the permit thing: do a flip-flop, starting both times at Bishop, kinda close to the middle. The other, actually recommended way by myself is to do the JMT much later in the year, like starting mid/late September. Fantastic weather in the Sierra's that time of year. Sure, there is a chance you'll get a dusting of snow, but probably no more than that. Permits are probably still tough going SOBO, but easier than in the mid/late summer.

That's great news because I was thinking about September!

[MuddyWaters]

So... if I understand correctly - it sounds like the permits are actually to help prevent 'big bubbles' at certain trailheads/beginning points.....and as long as you are flexible and start a little further back (20 miles for example) everything is so much easier?

Permits are to limit impact and protect user experience.

There are a few ways to finagle other hikes on jmt. They have drawbacks .
For instance the southern half requires a 110 mile stretch without resupply. You can resupply by hiking out, or horse packer though. Most are carrying 10 days food in large bearcan, and adding a couple more for a farther south start nobo isnt easy without resorting to resupply due to bear can size. That adds days or $$$.

[colorado_rob]

That's great news because I was thinking about September!

Cool, easily best time to hike the JMT, IMHO. Of course, no guarantees on weather any time of year, but your odds are good.

BTW: the southern half, no matter which way you're going, does indeed require either a big load of food or a hired resupply. We simply carried 8 days worth and made that work both times we did the southern half (one NOBO, one SOBO). When I do it again, I'll probably do two things: overall go slower and hire a resupply over Kearsage pass. Something like a few hundred dollars for up to a few hikers worth of food brought to the Kearsage pass jct for you.

[HooKooDooKu]

If you are looking to hike SOBO out of Yosemite, you need to read this:http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/jmtfaq.htm
Quite simply, you have 4 choices of trailheads and you exit Donahue Pass. One thing that is confusing is that two of what they call trail heads are actually the same trail head with the only difference being do you camp the 1st night in the Little Yosemite Valley area or beyond.
But given the recent increase in interest in the JMT, most permit requests out of Yosemite are getting denied because they limit it to only 45 people starting per day (with the bulk of those starting in Toulumne Meadows, so it is really tough to start at Happy Isles, the start of the JMT).

[HooKooDooKu]

Duplicate (need a delete button)

[MuddyWaters]

While Yosemite is a spectacular place.....due to dayhikers, trail runners, etc the JMT in Yosemite doesnt feel like wilderness. It has a very "front country" feel to it, even miles from trailheads.

The real JMT, starts at Donahue pass when you leave Yosemite.

You can see Yosemite with dayhikes any time. Your not missing anything by skipping Yosemite on the JMT.

[hikehunter]

I did a section of the trail back in 1988. There was no permit stuff then. We did check in at the Ranger Station and told them about our 10 day hike, the rangers were very laid back and thanked us for letting them know we were going to be out on the trail. They told us that they had no information on the water sources where we were going as no on had been in that srea yet that season. There was little to no interest by the rangers back then.

[Turk6177]

I took my chances and bussed into Yosemite from Mammoth Lakes. I was planning on staying in the backpacker campground and lining up at the ranger's office at O'Dark:30 to try to get a walk up permit. When I got off the bus, I went into the ranger station just to see if there were any permits. The ranger asked me, "You want to start today?" I really wasn't prepared to start hiking that day, so I asked if there was anything tomorrow. The ranger said, no problem and issued me my permit. I spent the night in backpacker campground without having to wait in line as I had planned. I started hiking out of Happy Isles that very next day. This was in mid-August 2014. I had heard some rumors that they were doing away with walk up permits (they used to save something like 45% of the permits for walk up permits per day) so I am not sure if this is still a viable option.

[Uncle Joe]

I did a section of the trail back in 1988. There was no permit stuff then. We did check in at the Ranger Station and told them about our 10 day hike, the rangers were very laid back and thanked us for letting them know we were going to be out on the trail. They told us that they had no information on the water sources where we were going as no on had been in that srea yet that season. There was little to no interest by the rangers back then.

Ah freedom. When we didn't have to be saved from ourselves.

[colorado_rob]

...
The real JMT, starts at Donahue pass when you leave Yosemite.

You can see Yosemite with dayhikes any time. Your not missing anything by skipping Yosemite on the JMT.

Or ENDS at Donahue pass... :-)
...
But yeah, certainly the very best of the JMT is not in Yosemite, but ya know, even with the crowds, I was glad to hike through yet another of our fantastic National Parks. I personally would not skip Yosemite. Cathedral lake and spire, Half dome area, etc, etc, gorgeous stuff. It is a tad less crowded on a weekday in September, and it sound like the OP will be ther in September, so if you must go SOBO (for some reason), if you do get a weekday permit, that would help.
...
We actually kinda liked finishing our NOBO in Yosemite with the throngs getting thicker and thicker in the last few miles before Happy Isles. Tourons are kinda fun to "make fun" of, their perfumes, footwear, etc. As in all long hikes, we were definitely ready to be off trail by then! Starting in the throngs of people as SOBOs have to do would be a whole different experience, kinda like lets get up and go and get the heck outta here....
...
By the way, we had no real crowds in Yosemite until we got to the half dome area, except briefly in the Tuolumne area. Then again, we were early October and it was still a weekday. We finished on a Saturday at HI, crowded but not ridiculously so in the Valley. This was all 2012, for reference.

[Trance]

Got my permit for June 15th 2016 from Happy Isles pass through --->

Took me three tries though!

[jimqpublic]

The Internet is killing the JMT!


Well not really but it is exposing more people to just how beautiful and achievable the trail is; also how to work the logistics of permit and supplies. I hiked it solo in 2008 then the northern 2/3 with family in 2013. Way more crowded on the latest trip. Both times I got a walk-up permit to depart from Happy Isles.


Here's the deal. As my wife said when we bailed in 2013- "I'm done with arbitrary goals set by someone else." The JMT isn't one trail. It is a bunch of trails linked together on a map. I would say anyone who hiked 200 miles from the high southern Sierra up to the Yosemite region or the reverse has had a similar experience and has experienced a broad swath of Muir's "Range of Light". With the popularity and overuse of the named trail it is an honorable thing to find alternatives.


All that said, I still vote for North to South. Not for scenery, or crowds, or even elevation. For resupply. The Northern half has 4 on-or-near trail resupply points. The Southern half has none.

[colorado_rob]

The Internet is killing the JMT!


Well not really but it is exposing more people to just how beautiful and achievable the trail is; also how to work the logistics of permit and supplies. I hiked it solo in 2008 then the northern 2/3 with family in 2013. Way more crowded on the latest trip. Both times I got a walk-up permit to depart from Happy Isles.


Here's the deal. As my wife said when we bailed in 2013- "I'm done with arbitrary goals set by someone else." The JMT isn't one trail. It is a bunch of trails linked together on a map. I would say anyone who hiked 200 miles from the high southern Sierra up to the Yosemite region or the reverse has had a similar experience and has experienced a broad swath of Muir's "Range of Light". With the popularity and overuse of the named trail it is an honorable thing to find alternatives.


All that said, I still vote for North to South. Not for scenery, or crowds, or even elevation. For resupply. The Northern half has 4 on-or-near trail resupply points. The Southern half has none.

Good points, except the last one... why does it matter which way you're going when you hike the southern half without resupply? I'm missing a point there...

We actually saw more people in 2009 than 2012, but we were late season in 2012, late September, my point being one can still enjoy reasonable solitude if one avoids summer on such trails.

That being said, I think I'll stick to alternates, like some version of the sierra high route, rather than repeat another jmt.

[tflaris]

I'm confused about the John Muir Trail permits.

I've read that there are different permits for different 'entry and exit' points....and some are easier to get then others. And some are about impossible.

Why is this? Are some of the start and ending places a LOT better or something? Or are they the 'official' trail heads? Or are those the places that day hikers want?

Is it easier on ones that start at an 'approach trail' or something?

Thanks

Elizabeth Wenk's book is worth it's weight in gold. I got a permit in my 3rd try and I live on the East Coast. Read and research. It's not the destination but the journey.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk