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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    In slavery times, groups of young white men, sons of the plantation owners , would patrol the roads at night on horseback looking for runaways . In the dialect of the times, these groups of patrollers were called the "paddy rollers" by the slaves.

    And now you know, where the term "paddy" in paddy wagon came from. In fact, the very act of policing and patrolling as we know it, started with policing the slaves. Which carries over into the historic distrust and fear of police black people still have today. Some things change slowly.


    Many people wont go 1/2 mile off the AT for a shelter, darn sure not a campsite.
    Sometimes I think trail clubs....just like to build new trail and change things


    The concept of the shelters IS to overuse them. Its called concentrated impact. You preserve other areas, by sacrificing some.
    Quote Originally Posted by excuses View Post
    ...On a side note, the term Paddy comes from the Irish. Paddy wagons were the police wagons who were mainly Irish in many towns in the late 1800's (and later).
    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    The police in the US evolved out of slave / minority patrollers, that were called Paddy rollers , long before the irish terminology came into being in the 20th century. As far back as 1704. The term paddy used for police patrols here predates any references to irish policemen or immigrants by about 150- 200 years.
    This is interesting, I too thought the term paddy had its origins in Irish police. If it did in fact come from slaves then what did the word paddy mean to the slaves, why would they call them paddy rollers?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Fool View Post
    This is interesting, I too thought the term paddy had its origins in Irish police. If it did in fact come from slaves then what did the word paddy mean to the slaves, why would they call them paddy rollers?
    the term patrollers was anglicized over time to be paddy rollers, who later became the police. Not everyone read or write, and pronunciation modified words commonly back then. Our dollar started out as the thaler. Some sounds are easier pronounced, and eventually words change.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 01-20-2016 at 08:17.

  3. #23

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    I know roads are always added instead of taken out, and I'm not sure what predates who as far as shelter construction vs roads but I'm pretty sure 99% of the time the road was there first. In this case I don't see what its not a standard rule that shelters are a minimum distance away from a road, say 1.5 miles? 2 miles?

    I think it would be a lot less appetizing to start a trail that doesn't have a premade safe house to bounce to every night.

    I don't know how you would enforce a permit system on the AT without creating some jobs or at least some ridge runners in the south. Perhaps a seasonal permit system? Feb 15th thru May 30th? (If you make it March 1st or 15th a lot more people would just start a day before the permit requirement and bypass it)

    In some aspects I feel like a hypocrite because I will use a shelter If its empty but if its got more the 1-2 other people in it? See ya I'm tenting
    Trail Miles: 3,715.9
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  4. #24
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    I've never understood the appeal of shelters in general and especially when they are crowded. Sounds like the shelters near the southern terminus should be torn down. Then there probably won't be much of a need for a permit system to reduce crowds.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    the term patrollers was anglicized over time to be paddy rollers, who later became the police. Not everyone read or write, and pronunciation modified words commonly back then. Our dollar started out as the thaler. Some sounds are easier pronounced, and eventually words change.
    Thalers were first produced in Germany and continental Europe. The translation into the English word dollar first appeared in Scotland in the 1500's. But there is a lot more to the history http://www.coinfacts.com/historical_...ver_dollar.htm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._States_dollar
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    I've never understood the appeal of shelters in general and especially when they are crowded. Sounds like the shelters near the southern terminus should be torn down. Then there probably won't be much of a need for a permit system to reduce crowds.
    Back in the day when canvas tents weighed 10 lbs+, and the trail was relatively uncrowded, shelters every 8 to 10 miles were an obvious improvement over carrying a tent. Sometimes they still are, especially in an ice or wind storm when large branches start breaking and falling out of trees.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    I've never understood the appeal of shelters in general and especially when they are crowded. Sounds like the shelters near the southern terminus should be torn down. Then there probably won't be much of a need for a permit system to reduce crowds.
    If you don't like shelters then don't use them. Some of you guys remind me of the guy living in a suburb complaining about urban sprawl. You seem to think that you are not part of the problem of the trail being crowded because you where there first like somehow those newbies don't have as much right to hike as you grizzled trail veterans. Lighten up.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    If you don't like shelters then don't use them. Some of you guys remind me of the guy living in a suburb complaining about urban sprawl. You seem to think that you are not part of the problem of the trail being crowded because you where there first like somehow those newbies don't have as much right to hike as you grizzled trail veterans. Lighten up.
    I don't and I won't. But I have every right to express my opinion just as you have the right to express yours.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    I don't and I won't. But I have every right to express my opinion just as you have the right to express yours.
    Yes we do have that right and I enjoy reading your posts.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    The police in the US evolved out of slave / minority patrollers, that were called Paddy rollers , long before the irish terminology came into being in the 20th century. As far back as 1704. The term paddy used for police patrols here predates any references to irish policemen or immigrants by about 150- 200 years.
    The first slaves were Irish.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-iri...e-slaves/31076
    Last edited by egilbe; 01-20-2016 at 10:42.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    If you don't like shelters then don't use them. Some of you guys remind me of the guy living in a suburb complaining about urban sprawl. You seem to think that you are not part of the problem of the trail being crowded because you where there first like somehow those newbies don't have as much right to hike as you grizzled trail veterans. Lighten up.
    Show me a newbie that respects the trail like these grizzled veterans, and ill show you respect for a newbie. There is nothing wrong with being new, there's something wrong with trashing mine, and your trail. Its our trail, and ignorance is no excuse for disrespecting our lands. It is black and white as to the difference between us leaving a footprint due to the intent of using the trail, and trashing it. If everyone packed out what they brought in, helped maintain fire pits, didn't "wack on live trees" and policed their campsite before leaving then the thru crowd would have a good reputation of financially contributing to the area and provided a tradition of heading north. Instead, regulars on the trail dread march, avoid the trail and volunteers and maintainers are overwhelmed with babysitting the trail during spring time. As Coffee said, you have your right and I have mine. And I'm expressing my right to be pissed at irresponsible whims to "go on an adventure", that ends in Neel Gap just to leave behind trash in GA for others to pickup.
    Trail Miles: 3,715.9
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  12. #32
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    I tend to agree with Gambit.....

    People abuse the trail from Springer - Neels in excess..... and that's where all of the people who are fair-weather hikers are starting daily. They watch their TV shows and read their books but have no idea about the harsh reality of days on end trail life... thus have little respect for the trail.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    In slavery times, groups of young white men, sons of the plantation owners , would patrol the roads at night on horseback looking for runaways . In the dialect of the times, these groups of patrollers were called the "paddy rollers" by the slaves.

    And now you know, where the term "paddy" in paddy wagon came from. In fact, the very act of policing and patrolling as we know it, started with policing the slaves. Which carries over into the historic distrust and fear of police black people still have today. Some things change slowly.


    Many people wont go 1/2 mile off the AT for a shelter, darn sure not a campsite.
    Sometimes I think trail clubs....just like to build new trail and change things


    The concept of the shelters IS to overuse them. Its called concentrated impact. You preserve other areas, by sacrificing some.
    While "paddy rollers" and "paddy wagon" both have "paddy" in the term, I don't think they are related in any other way, i.e. the term "paddy wagon" was not derived from the term "paddy roller".

  14. #34
    Registered User Cotton Terry's Avatar
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    I'm loving this thread. It's like a family Sunday dinner when I was a kid.

    BTW, during my short section hike through this area last year, I was surprised by the number of tent sites along the trail between Springer and Neel Gap. For my thruhike this year, I'm going to shy away from the shelters.

  15. #35
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    Why would anyone hike 1/2 mile off trail to camp when you can find wonderful, established sites hidden just off the trail?
    Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind.....Then Join In

  16. #36
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    In defense of the thru-hikers, I have spent a week out of the last three Aprils hiking south on the NC and Georgia portions of the AT. I have met hundreds of thru-hikers heading north many on their first 1-4 weeks on the trail.

    Yes, there is more garbage than normal. But I was also at a few shelters, the Rufus Morgan shelter in NC comes to mind, where there was not a spot of garbage anywhere. I even filmed it I was so impressed. And this was during the peak NOBO hiker bubble.

    For the most part from what I have observed, 95% of the thru-hikers out there are respectful in leaving no trace and behave as would be expected.

    But it is the 5% as always that mess things up for everyone else. They graffiti the shelters and leave heavy equipment and trash behind.

    The problem is, there will always be that 5%, no matter how much you try to restrict activity on the trail.

    Carl

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by cneill13 View Post
    In defense of the thru-hikers, I have spent a week out of the last three Aprils hiking south on the NC and Georgia portions of the AT. I have met hundreds of thru-hikers heading north many on their first 1-4 weeks on the trail.

    Yes, there is more garbage than normal. But I was also at a few shelters, the Rufus Morgan shelter in NC comes to mind, where there was not a spot of garbage anywhere. I even filmed it I was so impressed. And this was during the peak NOBO hiker bubble.

    For the most part from what I have observed, 95% of the thru-hikers out there are respectful in leaving no trace and behave as would be expected.

    But it is the 5% as always that mess things up for everyone else. They graffiti the shelters and leave heavy equipment and trash behind.

    The problem is, there will always be that 5%, no matter how much you try to restrict activity on the trail.

    Carl
    Wonderful,
    So only 50 out of 1000 folks are gunna trash the trail. That's just about enough to fill every shelter in Georgia. The point to all of this is how to educate the 5%, and not just deal with it.
    Trail Miles: 3,715.9
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    AT Map 1 Completion: 1818.9 Springer, GA - Franconia Notch, NH
    AT Map 2 Completion: 263.8 Gaps From GA - PA

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wornoutboots View Post
    Why would anyone hike 1/2 mile off trail to camp when you can find wonderful, established sites hidden just off the trail?
    The social aspect of the shelters seems to be a big draw. I sometimes stop at shelters to eat and talk to other hikers. It's nice to have a picnic table and sometimes there's already a fire going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    The point to all of this is how to educate the 5%, and not just deal with it.
    i'll say it again for 100th time, put caretakers at every shelter/campsite on the GA AT

  20. #40
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    You can be critical of the ATC but they have been preserving and managing the trail for over 90 years. I think they probably have a grasp of the problems and potential solutions. They do have a policy on shelters and camping adopted in 2007 and this action fits this policy. I have read they are to increase the number of caretakers and ridgerunners this year. To me it is sad that a bunch of adults need to have babysitters.
    More walking, less talking.

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