John Muir vs McCandless

[egilbe]

Not idolizing him. Im just saying as far as outlook on life at the same age, Chris and John were soul brothers. Who knows what may have happened if McCandless had lived? Who knows what may have happened if Muir had died at that age.

An awful lot of holier than thou judging going on in this thread.

[mtntopper]

Why did Chris leave home anyway?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Not idolizing him. Im just saying as far as outlook on life at the same age, Chris and John were soul brothers. Who knows what may have happened if McCandless had lived? Who knows what may have happened if Muir had died at that age.

An awful lot of holier than thou judging going on in this thread.

That cuts both ways. The reality is that we will never know. Because one of them had not just the luck, but also the behavior to survive. And one didn't.

Lots of people explore wilderness areas. And of all those who do survive, due to a combination of luck and chosen behavior, few rise to the level of life achievement of John Muir.

[magic_game03]

Some people need some education into Muir. I don't know much about McCandless, except what is written about him in a book. Muir on the other hand rivaled Leonardo da Vinci. First, he was genius. He was an outstanding writer and editor, a gifted inventor, a masterful leader in business and industry, he could recite the entire new testament, and is most historically known for recognizing that the Yosemite valley (Ahwahnee) was created by glaciers (even though he was challenged by professional geologist that thought otherwise and dismissed his theory); just to name a few of Muir's qualities.

Though Muir is often considered an aimless nomadic adventurer, that label is somewhat of an insult to his character.


P.S. In his later years Muir did put out his own eye with a timing mechanism that he himself had created. He writes that he leaned forward and let the ocular fluid run into the palm of his hand. Any body who puts out their own eye and watches the fluid run into the palm of their hand (instead of running off to mommy) is a bad-azz in my book.


P.S.S. Does anybody remember a AT trail nomad named Crazy Horse who put his own eye out while bungie cording gear to his back pack?

[MuddyWaters]

An awful lot of holier than thou judging going on in this thread.

An intelligent person would make sure they knew the necessary skills and knowledge to have a reasonable chance of thriving, not only surviving.

McCandless lacked that sense.

I do feel free to judge. Im not stupid enough to make his series of mistakes.

[adamkrz]

What if McCandless lived in the 1880's and Muir lived in modern times - No judgement from me, Personally I would have liked to meet them both.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Some people need some education into Muir. I don't know much about McCandless, except what is written about him in a book. Muir on the other hand rivaled Leonardo da Vinci. First, he was genius. He was an outstanding writer and editor, a gifted inventor, a masterful leader in business and industry, he could recite the entire new testament, and is most historically known for recognizing that the Yosemite valley (Ahwahnee) was created by glaciers (even though he was challenged by professional geologist that thought otherwise and dismissed his theory); just to name a few of Muir's qualities.

Well, I'd argue that rote memorization isn't necessarily the trappings of genius, per se - Muir's ability to recite the NT was beaten into him by his father. In that sense, both he and McCandless shared at least one experience, that of child abuse (according to McCandless' sister). Muir was however, quite innovative and a valued employee - when he chose to work.

[magic_game03]

First, I'd respond with the notion that Muir worked every day of his life. I have heard of Muir traveling (which is often hard work in itself) but I have never read of Muir taking a vacation, never! I would also say that many of us remember things when they are relevant and recent, he could recite the NT through out his life. He was employed in his younger years, but he also was owner and manager of different businesses later in life.

Remember, Muir lived into his 80's and accomplished much beyond the ramblings of his early twenties, which is what most people know of him.

[bobp]

Really stupid choices in hindsight, but who hasnt made those choices when they were young? Random chance killed McCandless. Nothing more, nothing less. "There, but for the grace of God, go I". There is truth to that.

No, there isn't truth to that. There are people who simply wouldn't make those choices, ever. They might make different stupid choices in different domains, but they would not require the grace of God to avoid doing what McCandless did. Not all stupid choices are equal, and obviously, the ones with fatal consequences count more. Some people are inherently better at risk management and recognition than others, and they become surgeons, pilots, and members of the bomb squad.

[rocketsocks]

No, there isn't truth to that. There are people who simply wouldn't make those choices, ever. They might make different stupid choices in different domains, but they would not require the grace of God to avoid doing what McCandless did. Not all stupid choices are equal, and obviously, the ones with fatal consequences count more. Some people are inherently better at risk management and recognition than others, and they become surgeons, pilots, and members of the bomb squad.

Not all hold those positions, isn't it interesting that anyone living today has had the good fortune to have each successive generation go through life without dying prior to procreation in a plane crash, blowing themeselves up, or being eatin by wild animals. Stuff happens, McCandles screwed up and it cost him his life.

[shelb]

Why did Chris leave home anyway?

Several reasons:

-He was tired of the materialistic life around him. (Parents focusing on only money and careers)
-He wanted to live life simply and not conform (Influence of Emerson, Thoreau, London, and others)
-He needed to cut ties with his family due to the anguish they caused him (parents pitting him against each other as they fought, a dad who had two families, and many - many other issues: see "The Wild Truth" by Corrine McCandless, a book released in the last few years written by his sister.

[mtntopper]

Several reasons:

-He was tired of the materialistic life around him. (Parents focusing on only money and careers)
-He wanted to live life simply and not conform (Influence of Emerson, Thoreau, London, and others)
-He needed to cut ties with his family due to the anguish they caused him (parents pitting him against each other as they fought, a dad who had two families, and many - many other issues: see "The Wild Truth" by Corrine McCandless, a book released in the last few years written by his sister.

Thanks for the info.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Why did Chris leave home anyway?

Several reasons:

-He was tired of the materialistic life around him. (Parents focusing on only money and careers)
-He wanted to live life simply and not conform (Influence of Emerson, Thoreau, London, and others)
-He needed to cut ties with his family due to the anguish they caused him (parents pitting him against each other as they fought, a dad who had two families, and many - many other issues: see "The Wild Truth" by Corrine McCandless, a book released in the last few years written by his sister.

From an interview with Corrine McCandless regarding family anguish being a reason for his behavior: "But to answer the crux of your question: People ask me all the time if I blame Walt and Billie for Chris’s death. I don’t. Chris made certain decisions and placed himself in that perilous situation. He also accepted responsibility for his mistakes, and accepted his fate bravely at the end. I do, however, hold Walt and Billie accountable for Chris’s disappearance and for us not knowing where he was. That was absolutely related to his feeling a need to escape and disconnect." http://www.outsideonline.com/1927741...ris-mccandless

[cmoulder]

Not that it matters one whit what any of us thinks, but I am one of those who takes a harsher view of McCandless and his series of poor choices. The word "poor" is objective because those choices led to his death.

One thing that leads me to believe he wasn't that bright is the whole river-crossing episode. In that same situation, I am pretty darn sure that I would have scoured the river bank quite a distance in either direction to find out if there were other possible ways to get to the other side. But by then his thinking processes might have been severely compromised by starvation, so who knows?

However, had he somehow survived by the skin of his teeth, the whole experience might have led to an epiphany that changed the course of his life. He might have turned out to be a great conservationist, explorer, lecturer, artist and/or father. Or maybe working at a hardware store. Very few of us could have predicted at age 20 where we actually end up at 60.

[Uriah]

Stupidity killed McCandless. Hes not someone to idolize

I think a better comparison (or contrast) than Muir and McCandless would be between McCandless and Everett Ruess. Both young, naive, brave, ambitious, idealistic, adventurous and talented, they possessed the same spirit that so many humans seem to be lacking. I'll never find fault for the way McCandless lived, or even how he died, since death isn't just some untold abstraction we can judge others for, as if it's not coming to a theatre near us someday. Instead, I look for what he stood for, what he was striving for, and am happy knowing there are others out there like this. It's all interpretation, I suppose.