72 miles in 2 days - my attempt

[Just Bill]

"Onewho is unused to long marches may get along pretty well the first day, but onthe second morning it will seem as if he could not drag one foot after theother." Horace Kephart

simple as that I think, from the fella who helped found the park you tried to cross too.

back to back long days, as Malto mentioned, is probably what you were missing.

keep at it, sounds like a great trip

[dudeijuststarted]

dude you didn't get shunned, you asked one question in that forum: "Is this goal unreasonable?" You should have asked what you wanted to ask, i.e. "How could I have trained better for this?"

People took time to respond to you and some told you their opinion that it was unreasonable, but their reasons why weren't satisfactory to you. Don't be a jerk.

[shelb]

As your injury/pain indicates and as many posters advised, you upped your activity a bit too much beyond your training level. This is way too common - for A.T. hikers, runners, and many others.

I decided to do a Tri-athanlon this summer. My first time on the bike, I rode 15 miles - after a day with a 8 mile run, figuring I could just push myself and get it done. I have spent a week in pain - WEIRD PAIN!!! I only have pain if I am on my feet or I am sitting. If I run, I do not have pain! I am pretty sure I pushed it way too much. ..

I may be wrong; however, I believe that you need to do a few things before stretching your physical limits:
- do a practice run if possible
~If not possible, do close to it, or realize you will not be able to sustain this activity more than one day (even so, you will hurt after that day!
~If you plan on multiple days, you need to go beyond the minimum you will demand on the shortest day. Do this AT LEAST two times prior to the test,

Biggest thing:
As you get older, chill - find ways to get around your physical restrictions. ~Good Luck!!!

Shelly

[AO2134]

Don't worry about others trying to measure YOUR ability and enjoyment of a hike by THEIR small measuring sticks man.

I have nothing to add as I top out at about 23-25 mpd, and that is on a easy section. I can't imagine doing that many miles in the smokies, but I wanted to support your attempts in trying it. You are not subject to my limitations or the limitations of what I imagine could be possible or enjoyable.

[illabelle]

I've learned a lot from reading comments about your attempt. I had planned that on a hike this fall through the HMW we would do 20 miles followed by 24 the next day over some of the flattest terrain. Problem is, the most we've ever done is 20, and that was once, and it took a long time. I no longer wonder whether we can do it. I know better than to try. It ain't worth the pain. We'll go at the pace that we can sustain over the distance.

[Malto]

Let me give you a couple other thoughts as you move from 20 mile days into the higher ranges.
1) Fueling becomes more important. What works for 20 may not work for 30 and beyond.
2) Hydration and Electolytes. Again, as you push the mileage limited you will likely find that you need a better strategy.
3) Chafing and blisters. This may also come in to play at some point even if you had zero issues at 20.
4) Recovery. I believe this is likely the most important and hardest to master. While I don't believe this played much of a role in your issues on day 2, it may have showed up later that day. My four goals for recovery: energy, protein, hydration and nutrition. Basically you need to give your body all the tools it needs to do maximum repair over night. Master 1 & 2 above and it will make the task easier.
5) Mental. This was your big win from your hike. How you view a certain distance mentally, say a 30 or 40 mile day, will greatly impact your chances of success. Prior to doing my first 30+ mile day I thought only the immortals like Skurka or Williamson could do distances like that. After many years of doing that distance and more on a regular basis I mentally view a 30 mile day as a relatively easy day. It changes your whole outlook. In your case, having done 37, you have broken the mental barrier and expanded the world of the possible.
6) Logistics. Little things during the day add up. Dogwood mention this above, people doing the high mileage aren't walking particularly fast, they are walking very consistently steady. As I did many of my training hikes prior to my PCT thru, I used to keep track on the time that I was stopped. It became a game to see how little time I would stop during the day. This contrasts with my earlier hiking where I would take regular breaks, which I believe are somewhat counter-productive.

Hope your recovery goes well. Sounds like you have been bitten by the bug. I suspect you will soon learn that there are many cool trips that you can now do in a limited timeframe.

[Traillium]

+1 for Malto's wisdom — and that of the many other experienced LD Hiker's here! I'm learning so much. Thanks!


Bruce Traillium

[Starchild]

Your body will allow you to do certain things for a while beyond it's limits, such as your one day hike of 37 miles. Then it goes into repair mode, which includes a way of discouraging you from doing that again for the repair process. While you may have just sprained, it sounds more like a overuse injury, of that's the case you went too far into your red zone and it is currently beyond your ability (sorry).

If you want to do it, and could push through the night (no stops), and can go slower you might be able to pull this off in two days/no sleep (or short naps), that would prevent recovery mode from knocking you on your ass till you made it thru. Don't know how you would be the next day, but there you go.

[Stevep311]

I've learned a lot from reading comments about your attempt. I had planned that on a hike this fall through the HMW we would do 20 miles followed by 24 the next day over some of the flattest terrain. Problem is, the most we've ever done is 20, and that was once, and it took a long time. I no longer wonder whether we can do it. I know better than to try. It ain't worth the pain. We'll go at the pace that we can sustain over the distance.

The last thing I want is for my experience to limit anyone else. Now, that being said, if it improves your upcoming hiking experience then that is fantastic and it makes my idea to post about this all worth it! Thank you.

[Stevep311]

Your body will allow you to do certain things for a while beyond it's limits, such as your one day hike of 37 miles. Then it goes into repair mode, which includes a way of discouraging you from doing that again for the repair process. While you may have just sprained, it sounds more like a overuse injury, of that's the case you went too far into your red zone and it is currently beyond your ability (sorry).

If you want to do it, and could push through the night (no stops), and can go slower you might be able to pull this off in two days/no sleep (or short naps), that would prevent recovery mode from knocking you on your ass till you made it thru. Don't know how you would be the next day, but there you go.

Funny thing is around 9PM of the first night I had the same thought you mention of continuing on without sleep. The rationale for it was that I had a sense that I might not be able to continue after going to sleep for 7 hours. Of course that thought lasted about a half second before I came to my senses. Admittedly I started to get pretty "wobbly" around mile 34ish--thank God for trekking poles cause I've never relied on them more! I knew I was beginning to risk serious injury if I hadn't stopped as planned.

[Stevep311]

Let me give you a couple other thoughts as you move from 20 mile days into the higher ranges.
1) Fueling becomes more important. What works for 20 may not work for 30 and beyond.
2) Hydration and Electolytes. Again, as you push the mileage limited you will likely find that you need a better strategy.
3) Chafing and blisters. This may also come in to play at some point even if you had zero issues at 20.
4) Recovery. I believe this is likely the most important and hardest to master. While I don't believe this played much of a role in your issues on day 2, it may have showed up later that day. My four goals for recovery: energy, protein, hydration and nutrition. Basically you need to give your body all the tools it needs to do maximum repair over night. Master 1 & 2 above and it will make the task easier.
5) Mental. This was your big win from your hike. How you view a certain distance mentally, say a 30 or 40 mile day, will greatly impact your chances of success. Prior to doing my first 30+ mile day I thought only the immortals like Skurka or Williamson could do distances like that. After many years of doing that distance and more on a regular basis I mentally view a 30 mile day as a relatively easy day. It changes your whole outlook. In your case, having done 37, you have broken the mental barrier and expanded the world of the possible.
6) Logistics. Little things during the day add up. Dogwood mention this above, people doing the high mileage aren't walking particularly fast, they are walking very consistently steady. As I did many of my training hikes prior to my PCT thru, I used to keep track on the time that I was stopped. It became a game to see how little time I would stop during the day. This contrasts with my earlier hiking where I would take regular breaks, which I believe are somewhat counter-productive.

Hope your recovery goes well. Sounds like you have been bitten by the bug. I suspect you will soon learn that there are many cool trips that you can now do in a limited timeframe.

Malto, thank you for taking the time! Your points are all well taken and all of them had a huge part during my hike. Regarding recovery, I wonder if I should have done some more research into natural anti-inflammatory foods. I take a fair amount of Advil but I really would have preferred an alternative. BTW, I was very concerned about blisters as I've had serious issues in the past. This hike I switched to Altra trail runners and Injinji toe socks which kept me blister free. Your comments about the mental part are very true. I am tough on myself and normally I would be pretty down for "failing", however, knocking out 37.5 in a day was a big mental win!

[rafe]

I've learned a lot from reading comments about your attempt. I had planned that on a hike this fall through the HMW we would do 20 miles followed by 24 the next day over some of the flattest terrain. Problem is, the most we've ever done is 20, and that was once, and it took a long time. I no longer wonder whether we can do it. I know better than to try. It ain't worth the pain. We'll go at the pace that we can sustain over the distance.

So many factors to consider: motivation, preparedness, weather, trail conditions, good rest the night before... and just sheer luck, or lack thereof. I'm a wuss (as previously stated) but I managed about 15 miles per day in the HMW. Last time was in 2010. Not sure if I could do that today.

I've never done two consecutive 20s. Personal best was 41 miles in two days in SNP. (21 followed by 19.) Nine years ago....

I'm all for people pushing their limits. But listen to your body when it pushes back. Kudos to Stevep (the OP) for doing that.

[illabelle]

So many factors to consider: motivation, preparedness, weather, trail conditions, good rest the night before... and just sheer luck, or lack thereof. I'm a wuss (as previously stated) but I managed about 15 miles per day in the HMW. Last time was in 2010. Not sure if I could do that today.

I've never done two consecutive 20s. Personal best was 41 miles in two days in SNP. (21 followed by 19.) Nine years ago....

I'm all for people pushing their limits. But listen to your body when it pushes back. Kudos to Stevep (the OP) for doing that.

I'm glad we did the one 20-mile day (Wise Shelter in GHP north to Partnership). It tells us that if we get in a situation where we have to put in those miles, it can be done. It's not like our feet will fall off, or we'll have a stroke or something. It was a mental barrier that we needed to cross that makes those 17-mile and 18-mile days less intimidating.

My motivation for planning a 20 and a 24 in the HMW was simply to reduce our time on trail (limited number of vacation days...). I've read of so many people getting through the HMW in 6 or 8 days - or less, but that seems too ambitious for us. I've added a day to the trip so we can take our time and enjoy the experience (10 days including Katahdin and Gulf Hagas, plus 2 days travel).

I think it's better for us to push our limits somewhere closer to home. I have to admit it's inspiring to read what others can accomplish! It would be interesting to stand in Malto's feet for a little while, feel the strength of the tendons and ligaments, the hardness of the callouses, the eagerness to leap up the hill.

[CamelMan]

Congratulations on your big day, Steve. (Something like that is currently just in my dreams.) I hope your recovery goes well and you have many more.

[One Half]

I have trained endurance athletes. You violated a lot of "principles" of sound training. I have never trained an endurance hiker for high mileage but the principles still apply.

First you need a good base. Preferably on terrain similar to what you will attempt and doing the same activity. A first time marathoner should start with a 6 month base of consistent training by running 5-6 days per week at base mileage daily and weekly totals. If I have that I can tell a person how long it should take them to train for their first marathon as long as they don't twist an ankle or some other unforeseen injury. I have trained people who and to me because they never get to marathon day because they could have prevented an injury that they ignored. I do a complete movement analysis on runners before training them for distance.

That being said, we extend their weekly training totals gradually. And adjust depending on how they recover. I'll try to explain simply here but if you look up marathon training for beginners you will get a sense of what I mean. Keep in mind though, they aren't attempting back to back marathon+ days.

Let's say the runners base is 6 days per week, roughly 5 miles per day. That's 30 miles per week. Maybe 1 or 2 days they only go 4 miles and on the weekend they actually do a 7 mile day. And they have been at this level for 2 months. That would be a dream client.

I would start by slowly increasing that long run and making sure they have an easier day the 2 days following it. I also throw in some tempo runs and hills and other things. And the long run is for distance only, not speed. Total overall mileage increase each week would be max 10% but likely closer to 5% depending on how large those percentages become real numbers. Also, every 3-5 weeks we will cycle back a little by dropping the mileage on the long run. The other runs during the week are also increasing in length based on what the client can get done since most of my clients were people with full time jobs and family also and thus unable to devote every spare minute to preparing.

So as others have pointed out, you can't expect that being able to do a 20 today means you can do a 20 tomorrow. I would suggest that you do what you can during the week and then try to use the weekends to do back to back days, increasing gradually each weekend as your body is able. Perhaps you can do a 20+15 and that's it right now. I would work on bringing up that 15. When it gets closer or even exceeds the 20, I would then add more to the first day, say a 22 and then a 18 the following day and see how that works out for you. And then progress from there.

It's important to make a plan and make sure you have recovery built into the plan. And even when you are feeling great on the plan, don't push it by going further. I have seen more runners screw up their marathons by pushing out a couple extra miles 5 weeks out from marathon day because "they felt great" and ignored their coach.

I hope that helps. It's hard to post much from my phone so I hope I didn't leave too large a gap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stevep311]

FWIW, I just remembered that I took a screen shot of my Fitbit at the end of my first day. It's never 100% accurate but it's close. Thought ya'll would get a kick out of it....

GSMNP day 1.PNG

[rafe]

FWIW, I just remembered that I took a screen shot of my Fitbit at the end of my first day. It's never 100% accurate but it's close. Thought ya'll would get a kick out of it....

GSMNP day 1.PNG

A rough calculation says that a thru hiker takes about 35,000 steps a day. If those numbers are right you did three days' worth in one go.
But didn't you say you did, like 36 miles or something? That would seem to be a big error.

[Stevep311]

A rough calculation says that a thru hiker takes about 35,000 steps a day. If those numbers are right you did three days' worth in one go.
But didn't you say you did, like 36 miles or something? That would seem to be a big error.

If I count everything exactly it was 38.4....this is per AWOL's guidebook. So the miles on the Fitbit are definitely wrong. It doesn't have a GPS so I believe it bases mileage off of your steps and many steps that day were shorter than my average stride, especially the uphill ones.

[The Solemates]

i can hike 20 mile days. 30 mile days are not for me. big difference.

well 20 mile days arent really for me either unless Im thru hiking

[Pedaling Fool]

The good news is that there is a substitute. You don't necessarily need to do weeks worth of long day hikes, rather just consistently work out (shorter duration) developing the frame. It's much like putting money in the bank (the only difference is you can't do large deposits all at once on the body – unfortunately). Below are two interesting articles that talks about the similarities of running and your personal bank account.


I'm assuming you don't have access to good trails in Atlanta, so hiking every day is probably not an option, that's definitely the case with me, down here in Florida. However, that's why I focus so much on running, because running and hiking (in the mountains) is a very similar activity in a bio-mechanical sense, at least in my experience; running is much more a similar activity to hiking in the mountains than hiking on flatland.

In other words, if you live on flat, ground running is the superior activity to best keep your hiking legs than to simply walk. Even if you live in a moderately hilly area, you'd benefit more from running those hills than simply walking them and it would take a lot less training time. A good measure of improvement is how much you can do day after day without pain, but you also have to make sure you are getting rest and recuperation.


In you OP you stated that you've been running 3-6 miles every day for 3-months. That's good, but you don't want to simply run the basic same distance every day, when you do that you create a routine and the body is very good at adapting to routines, but then you go hike all day and you're out of your routine and the body wasn't really prepared – the body is lazy that way; however, that's not to say what you did isn't impressive, it was a very impressive accomplishment.


You really want to mix things up, including long runs and speed work, tempo runs, running hills....And don't forget the weights. You don't have to spend a lot of time, just consistency and keep your work mixed up.


Very interesting article: http://running.competitor.com/2014/0...ver-time_41858


And another one:
http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/miles-in-the-bank




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