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  1. #1
    Registered User Onemorehill's Avatar
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    Default Aarn Pack Users: What do you think of your pack?

    I'm getting ready to place an order for an Aarn Featherlite Freedom pack. I've had my eye on these packs for about 10 years. Too bad you can't buy one in the States anymore. Before I have one shipped from NZ, I thought I should ask: What do you think of your pack? Do you love it? Or not?

  2. #2

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    There's probably a very good reason that no other manufacturer seems to be making packs with front pouches that are supposed to hold heavier items than the main pack (it seems that it would uncomfortable, especially for women). Personally, I'd like a professional fitting for a unique design such as this, something you're not going to get mail ordered from NZ. I'd look into some of the many options available in the US, where you can be fit correctly and get warranty service backed by a local dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    There's probably a very good reason that no other manufacturer seems to be making packs with front pouches that are supposed to hold heavier items than the main pack
    Or just because of IP reasons?

    The pack make sense to me. Weight isen't everything. The distribution of the weight seem to be of most importance.

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    First of all to Offshore there are lots of packs which are utilizing front pockets which serve to provide counterbalancing. Note how many folks you see today that have shoulder strap pouches with water bottles in them. Most of the ultra trail runners use this technique. I have had them installed on my Zpacks cuben fiber pack just for this purpose. The ones on the Aarn pack work really well as they have stays in them that rest on the hip belt.

    Onemorehill: I own the Aarn Featherlight Freedom. I have about 700 miles on it and 500 miles of the AZT. The claims by Aarn that it balances by using the front pockets for holding water bottles and other heavy items are accurate in my opinion. When under up to about a 35lb pack load I was able to put enough weight in the front pockets to result in having no weight on the shoulders at all (that is there was a gap between the top of my shoulder and the strap one could fit their hand into. Beyond 35lbs one would start holding some of the weight on the shoulders. Yes the balancing which is intended to move ones center of gravity towards the natural place does work. When wearing this pack and having it packed per instructions one does stand much straighter than a typical packer.

    Some negatives. The pack is fairly heavy by pack standards for the typical thru hiker. But the weights as listed on the web site seem to be accurate so I just wanted to make sure you know that the name Featherlight is marketing as the medium pack with waterproof inserts is about 3.5 lbs. The pack is BIG and runs probably close to 70 liters.

    I bought this pack due to having had a badly broken back and feel that it was a good choice and it performed as advertised. I have switched to a much more ultra light gear setup as I found that getting the weight off my shoulders with the Aarn pack was not sufficient to stop the back pain. So now I am carrying a gear setup which is oriented towards cuben fiber products and stripping out less than essential gear (it seems to be working) and am now 5+ lbs below where I was and will be another 2 lbs down when I can justify the cost. But once again I note that I have adapted my new pack to the same balancing being used in the Aarn pack by mounting water bottles to the shoulder straps.

  5. #5
    Registered User Onemorehill's Avatar
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    Thank you, Wyoming, for your detailed comments. They are very helpful. On the Aarn website, the small Featherlite Freedom, which is the size that would fit me, is listed at 62 L, total, including the balance pockets. Is yours a small or a large? (There is no medium listed.) If yours is a large, then 70 L matches what the site says. I am waiting until I have the majority of my other gear gathered up so I can confirm or refute my estimate that 62 L would be a reasonable size. It seems that 60-65 L is a size used by many thruhikers who aren't in the ultralite category.

    I do day hikes of 8 to 11 miles 4 days a week right now, for exercise, carrying a small pack with about 15-20 pounds of stuff in it. I find that I really dislike having all of the weight on my back, even with the hip belt well adjusted and little or no weight on my shoulders. Sometimes I even wear another little pack "backwards" on my front, just to be able to walk in a more natural upright position. Thus my long interest in the Aarn packs.

    Oslohiker, what are "IP reasons"?

    Offshore,
    I agree that a professional fitting would be excellent.

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    Onemorehill

    Yes mine is the Large which is 57L plus pockets. It was bigger than I needed but my torso length was not right for the small. I am carrying a 60 L pack now and it seems plenty big enough .. I start the PCT with it in a couple of weeks and it was an excellent size for the last 300 miles of the AZT. A lot of the size issue is the bulk of the gear one is carrying of course.

    FYI the Aarn pack is built bomb proof. I have gotten the impression over time that in New Zealand the hiking is very rugged in general and they have emphasized real durability - which most thru hikers could care less about anymore.. it is built like one of the heavy Gregory packs.

  7. #7
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Howdy neighbor,

    I have used an Aarn Peak Aspiration for approximately 8 years. I bought it after a series of back injuries in order to help with the whole spine angle and weight issues associated with traditional packs. Dealing with Aarn in NZ isn't an issue. I had a minor sewing issue with the shoulder straps and Devi Benson (Aarn Tate's partner) shipped me a new set promptly. They aren't exactly a cottage industry, but they aren't real big either.

    The pluses:
    1) Innovative design and suspension that really does works as advertised. It redistributes weight when packed as recommended, typically with water and heavier items in front pockets. The way the shoulder straps work is also very innovative in that they keep the pack balanced better when climbing in uneven terrain as the pack doesn't shift around. You will definitely walk more upright with this pack. This I think is it's key advantage, especially for people with back/disk problems, as it significantly reduces the degree of flexion required to balance a traditional pack.
    2) Front pockets are great for keeping water, camera, glasses, maps, snacks, phone , umbrella, etc, handy. The pockets do not block your vision or interfere with hiking.
    3) Frame (internal) and suspension are adjustable. The aluminum stay(s) in the main pack can be bent to fit the curve of your spine, the front pocket stays can also be bent as desired to fit one's anatomy and provide clearance (they do not contact your chest/torso when in use). The shoulder strap attachment point is movable/adjustable. The hip belt is very adjustable. It takes a bit of time and is easier with the help of another person to fit it properly - getting the aluminum back stay bent to your spine curve, hipbelt position/angle, etc.
    4) Durable, quality fabrics and materials, mostly Cordura type in wear areas, well sewn. This isn't a pack that will wear out from a few rock scrapes.
    5) Waterproof (absolutely waterproof), roll top liners can be used or not depending upon weather expectations. Saves a little weight on section hikes if you know there won't be any rain.

    The minuses:
    1) Somewhat heavier than many more traditional packs in the same volume range. My Peak Aspiration is 45 liters plus 12 liters for the front pockets and weighs just over 4 lbs. It can't compete weight wise with many of the the UL frameless packs at ≤ 2 lbs., but it obviously can carry heavier loads more comfortably, on par with frame type internal packs.
    2) It is more difficult/complicated to put on and less so to take off than a traditional pack due to the front pockets. But you tend not to take it off as often as you can keep a lot of stuff handy in the front pockets. There is a bit of a learning curve picking it up and putting it on with a full load in the front pockets. It takes a little practice to get it down.
    3) You get weird looks sometimes from other hikers.

    For an overnight hike, with minimal total load of gear/food/water (under 15 lbs and under 25 liters volume total), I generally don't take it anymore, opting for a much lighter frameless day pack. My back is in much better health though than it was 8 years ago though. But anytime I'm carrying 20+ lbs and bulkier gear, I think the extra weight of the suspension system and pack is more than offset by the carrying comfort. This really is a comfortable pack.

    Hope this helps.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  8. #8
    Registered User Onemorehill's Avatar
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    4eyedbuzzard, thank you for giving me your plusses and minuses. They track exactly with the debate that has been going on in my head since I first learned about Aarn packs 10 years ago. Alas, at that time, you could buy them in the U.S. I kind of wish I had gone ahead and purchased one. But it's hard to spring for an expensive item you *hope* to use for a goal that is 10 years away from achievement.

    I have emailed back and forth with Devi Benson on some questions, and I am blown away by the thoroughness and speed of her responses. The videos on the website about how to fit the packs are quite thorough and make it seem like I can fit the pack myself, with help from a friend for the back stay. There are so many fine-tuning adjustments provided that it seems very doable if one is not in a hurry.

    My biggest concern has been the weight of the pack. But, try as I might, I just haven't been able to talk myself into the idea that the same weight of gear packed into a lighter pack that has to be carried on only my back is going to be more comfortable for me than that weight of gear in a heavier pack that is balanced over my center of gravity. I think it might possibly be the best "extra" two pounds I could have. :-) I guess I could count those two extra pack pounds as my "luxury item" for the trail. Ha!

    I am going to be a section hiker, God willing, but my sections will be long ones of 400-600 miles and about 6 to 8 weeks at a pop, rather than lots of shorter trips. If I lived closer to the AT--what a luxury!--it might be a different story.

    Thank you again for your evaluation of the pack.

  9. #9
    Registered User Onemorehill's Avatar
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    Wyoming, thank you for the further information about the robustness of the pack. Best wishes for your upcoming PCT hike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onemorehill View Post

    Oslohiker, what are "IP reasons"?
    Intellectual property

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
    FYI the Aarn pack is built bomb proof. I have gotten the impression over time that in New Zealand the hiking is very rugged in general and they have emphasized real durability - which most thru hikers could care less about anymore.. it is built like one of the heavy Gregory packs.
    As I understand Arn also make cuben fiber versions also:

    http://www.aarnpacks.com/#!cuben-fibre-packs/c21wd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
    First of all to Offshore there are lots of packs which are utilizing front pockets which serve to provide counterbalancing. Note how many folks you see today that have shoulder strap pouches with water bottles in them. Most of the ultra trail runners use this technique. I have had them installed on my Zpacks cuben fiber pack just for this purpose. The ones on the Aarn pack work really well as they have stays in them that rest on the hip belt.
    Depends on what you mean by "lots". Look at all the manufacturers (big and small) and you'll see its a minority. (You even said you had to have them installed on your Zpacks pack - apparently it wasn't designed as one of the lots of packs you referred to.) Furthermore, a couple of water bottle pockets are hardly the same as those ridiculous bags on the front of the Aarn - a water bottle is an accessory while the Aarn design calls for the heaviest items (not accessories) to be carried on the front straps - hence the stays. That design just looks overengineered to solve a non-problem. No wonder Aarn didn't make it even as a niche product in the US market. Sort of like driving a Peugeot when they were still in the US market - you'll be one of the few, but the car basically sucks.

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    What I am seeing here is people that are trying to carry heavier loads with back problems are finding the Aarn packs helpful, but as people go lighter, and or their back problems calm down, the benefits seem to not justify continued use. In none of these discussions did I hear anyone discuss extensive experience with high quality, more traditional packs and then suggest that the Aarn actually solved specific problems they previously had.

    For what it's worth, I have plenty of both lower and upper back issues. And, the Gregory Baltoro, (an excellent and more traditional pack) is the most amazingly comfortable and supportive pack I've ever carried when my back is acting up and I'm carrying a heavy load. I have actually strapped a Baltoro pack on to help me move and help my back calm down when it went out on me once. It worked better than my back belt!

    I'd like to ask those people that have used the Aarn packs in the past, and use them less or no longer now, was weight really the only reason to switch back to more traditional packs?
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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    Registered User Onemorehill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oslohiker View Post
    As I understand Arn also make cuben fiber versions also:

    http://www.aarnpacks.com/#!cuben-fibre-packs/c21wd
    Those look SWEET!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    That design just looks overengineered to solve a non-problem.
    For me it looks like you use less energy for transporting the same weight or more. As I said, low weight is not everything when it comes to covering long distances. It is the energy use.
    Another benefits as I se it, is the direct access to more stuff without having to take of the pack. Looking more straight forward is also better.

    Americans use mostly Americans stuff. Here in Norway we pick the best stuff from all over the world. We don't use the arn pack much, but better garments and other other stuff. Here we especially use first layer meshed merino wool with superior quality. Patagonia Merino Air is a bad copy of that. If you need extremely high quality of something, Germany almost always got it (You said peogeot, think merchedes, bmw and audi).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oslohiker View Post
    . . . Americans use mostly Americans stuff. . .
    No. We use mostly Chinese stuff.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  17. #17
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "lots". Look at all the manufacturers (big and small) and you'll see its a minority. (You even said you had to have them installed on your Zpacks pack - apparently it wasn't designed as one of the lots of packs you referred to.) Furthermore, a couple of water bottle pockets are hardly the same as those ridiculous bags on the front of the Aarn - a water bottle is an accessory while the Aarn design calls for the heaviest items (not accessories) to be carried on the front straps - hence the stays. That design just looks overengineered to solve a non-problem. No wonder Aarn didn't make it even as a niche product in the US market. Sort of like driving a Peugeot when they were still in the US market - you'll be one of the few, but the car basically sucks.
    Regarding your comments: The front packs are hardly ridiculous. While you may categorize water bottles as accessories, the water they contain is likely the heaviest and most dense single item weight carried by a hiker. Also they do not hang from the shoulder straps, aluminum stays transfer the weight largely to the hipbelt. Other items that are often carried in the front packs, like gorp/food, fuel, cameras, phones, guides/maps, GPS, headlamps, etc, are also typically amongst the most heavy and/or dense items that hikers carry. As i noted in my reply to the OP, it is more complicated to put the pack on, but you take it off a lot less as many items can be conveniently carried in the front pockets. It's a compromise in this area.

    The U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on innovative technology. Since you used an automotive analogy, perhaps you should revisit where technology such as three point seat belts, antilock brakes, and other similar items first appeared. I seem to remember a lot of my fellow Americans stating they'd never be caught dead wearing a seat belt or driving a car with a computer controlled braking system. 8~/ Sometimes cultures are very resistant to anything they view as different, even if it may be an improvement. And then there is the Intellectual Property/Patent situation. US manufacturers would have to come up with design that accomplishes the same thing by a different concept. And as long as people are buying what they currently offer, it probably just doesn't make financial sense for them to do so.

    I get that YOU don't particularly like the concept, but your negative comments appear to be based upon absolutely ZERO actual experience with the product.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    What I am seeing here is people that are trying to carry heavier loads with back problems are finding the Aarn packs helpful, but as people go lighter, and or their back problems calm down, the benefits seem to not justify continued use. In none of these discussions did I hear anyone discuss extensive experience with high quality, more traditional packs and then suggest that the Aarn actually solved specific problems they previously had.

    For what it's worth, I have plenty of both lower and upper back issues. And, the Gregory Baltoro, (an excellent and more traditional pack) is the most amazingly comfortable and supportive pack I've ever carried when my back is acting up and I'm carrying a heavy load. I have actually strapped a Baltoro pack on to help me move and help my back calm down when it went out on me once. It worked better than my back belt!

    I'd like to ask those people that have used the Aarn packs in the past, and use them less or no longer now, was weight really the only reason to switch back to more traditional packs?
    I'm glad you love your Gregory pack. They make a good product. But packs are a very individual item. What one person finds comfortable and serviceable another doesn't. We all have different needs and preferences, and even then they change based upon conditions and over time.

    Regarding weight, I have lightened up my equipment a lot over the past 8 years - and obviously this will help with any pack in regards to comfort. I often don't need the volume of the one Aarn pack I own (45 + 12 liters), and for overnights will often just use a smaller traditional day pack - mostly because I already own it. My next pack will probably be a smaller, lighter Aarnpack, a Marathon Magic model which is basically "day pack" size which will be perfect for short weekend hikes . After suffering three lumbar disk injuries at multiple levels, severe enough to cause temporary paralysis of my left leg at times, from 2003 through 2007 I was unable to hike at all for most of those years. To more specifically address your question I simply couldn't carry a 25 to 30 lb load in the pack I had. I didn't want to quit hiking forever, so I gave the Aarn a try. It worked for me. FWIW, my Orthopedist and my physical therapist also liked the way the Aarn pack worked vs. traditional packs as it significantly reduces the amount of having to lean forward to balance the load in a traditional pack.

    I would also submit that the Aarn suspension system, WITHOUT the front packs attached (which is an option), is still a good suspension system - better in many ways than that employed by most pack traditional makers. The way the shoulder straps pivot when reaching or climbing allows the pack to remain centered on the spine, rather than tilting towards either side. The result is improved lateral balance. You would probably have to actually wear and use one to understand, but the concept is explained on their website http://www.aarnpacks.com/#!bio2/c1z6v .

    All pack designs are compromises. Center of gravity and organization in internals vs externals is a typical debate. Light weight vs carrying capacity and durability in internals is often discussed, as is framesheet/stay vs frameless . And there's also price to consider. Aarn produces a product that addresses the front vs back center of gravity issue. By doing so, it uses front pockets that are unusual compared to traditional packs, and by design incorporates a bit more weight in materials to accomplish that. We know that center of gravity is an issue in all packs because we learn (at least most of us have) to try to keep heavier items as close to our backs (spine) as possible even in a traditional pack. It's simple physics - you want to minimize the distance (lever arm) of any weight pulling you over backwards as the further back the weight, the more you must bend forward to counterbalance that weight, which also adds a pulling load on the shoulders.

    FWIW, most of us who have used Aarn packs are pretty happy with the way they work and would buy another one.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    . . . I get that YOU don't particularly like the concept, but your negative comments appear to be based upon absolutely ZERO actual experience with the product. . .
    Almost exactly. Except, I actually like the concept. I do have "absolutely ZERO actual experience with the product."

    The idea sounds great. So does communism. Therefore, I question good ideas, especially if they add complexity to a simpler (albeit imperfect) working system. Until the last post, nobody that posted personal experience with the Aarn packs presented any real personal experience with high quality traditional packs to compare with and evaluate the efficacy of the Aarn in comparison to a more traditional system. Also, it appears that most, not all, of the Aarn users have gone back to using more traditional packs with lighter loads, without explaining why, although they liked the "good idea" of the Aarn, they regressed back to more traditional suspension instead of buying another, smaller and lighter Aarn.

    4eyedbuzzard, thank you for your detailed reply to the uncertainty I posted earlier.

    FWIW, I don't use a Gregory pack any more. I rarely, if ever, carry more than 35 lbs (even in winter) and so I don't want the complexity and weight of a Gregory Baltoro. I use smaller lighter packs that carry lighter weight just fine with much less complexity and weight.

    So, we get back to the core of the question at hand: Are the benefits of the Aarn packs really a net advantage when one is carrying say, sub 30 lb loads?

    I'm guessing, from your comments, that you think they are. I'm questioning their value for me if my sub 30 lb packs are light enough that I don't notice myself bending over when carrying them and I rarely bother to take them off when resting, because, they are not uncomfortable as is.
    Maybe the convenience of the large front pockets are worth the complexity, even if the change in load distribution is not.

    Just trying to get away from the hype of the good idea and drilling down to the efficacy of its implementation.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  19. #19

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    Both Wyoming and 4eyedbuzzard have experience and I have nothing to add except to post this picture of hammocker Medicine Man on a trip with me---with him wearing an Aarn pack---first and last time I've seen one in real world conditions.


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    Tipi, What are those staffs. Is your friend preparing for some spear hunting?
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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