GSMNP permits

[r2davis65]

I'm headed up in a few weeks to section hike the Smokies from Fontana to Davenport. I have my permit with "reservations" at designated shelters along the trail. This will be my first experience with park permit system. I assume the shelters are still a first come basis although the permit has me "reserved?" Any information would be appreciated. My plan is to get through the park in six days.

[TNhiker]

sounds like you are just doing the Smokys section and not 50 miles before and 50 miles after (smoky's definition of a thruhiker).....

if so-----yes, you have a reserved spot in a shelter...........

bunk space in a shelter is first come first served-------meaning claim your spot when you get into a shelter...........


(slightly) more info


https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/manag...endium-all.pdf

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[r2davis65]

Yes, section hiking. I've gradually worked my way up from Springer. I assume if you arrive to a full shelter, you politely ask for your reserved space or pitch a tent.

[Greenlight]

Mmmmm...just did this a few weeks ago, and reserved Mount Collins shelter. If you paid for shelter spots, and you have your permit with you, the number of allotted shelter spaces on the permit belong to you for that night. A person who purchased the thru-hiker permit can stay in the shelter if there are spaces available (non-reserved). Thru hikers who come upon a packed shelter are allowed to camp at established campsites within GSMNP.

Here's the reality. If you bought a permit and the shelter you reserved is full, you can be polite and ask people to vacate the number of spots shown on your permit. If they ignore you, you can be a butthead and demand that they vacate. *Nobody wants to be that guy, but you have that right*

There is also a "no hammock" rule in GSMNP. I don't think it is enforced unless you were to hang your hammock across the trail.

It was cold and windy when I was there, and no ridge runners were there. The shelter was full, but the occupants made room for my son and I on the top sleeping platform. It was snug and there were snorers, but we stayed in the shelter as we said we would.

There were also campers all around the shelter who weren't thru hikers. I'm sure there were hammockers all thru the park, too. As long as they're getting their money for the shelter permits, I don't think they care too much about who sleeps where. Well, officially they do. And I'm sure they'd defend it in an open discussion, because that's how laws and regulations work. Laws are only enforced to the extent that there are lawmen present to issue citations. My take was that they only issue citations to those who become obnoxious, etc.

I'm headed up in a few weeks to section hike the Smokies from Fontana to Davenport. I have my permit with "reservations" at designated shelters along the trail. This will be my first experience with park permit system. I assume the shelters are still a first come basis although the permit has me "reserved?" Any information would be appreciated. My plan is to get through the park in six days.

[illabelle]

To embellish just a little on what TNhiker said...
In theory you've reserved a spot at each shelter on your itinerary. In practice, there's a bit more to it. There are sometimes uniformed people at the shelters without reservations, or there may be thru-hikers who have a more flexible itinerary and are not required to reserve space in individual shelters. The rule states that thru-hikers (and only thru-hikers) can tent, but can only do so if the shelter is full. When you show up, if the shelter is full, a thru-hiker is supposed to go set up their tent and give you their space. But if you arrive after they've already settled in and all the best tent spots are taken, they won't be happy.

Edit: Greenlight said it better.

[r2davis65]

Thanks. I understand. Show up early and get a spot.

[TNhiker]

There is also a "no hammock" rule in GSMNP. I don't think it is enforced unless you were to hang your hammock across the trail.

both of those statements are incorrect...

hammocks cannot be hung using the shelter-----nor can they be used to sleep outside the shelter when full...

but, thru hikers can use a hammock---in trees----if the shelter is full........

also, other backcountry sites in the park allows for hanging in trees...

and yes, they have been handing out tickets if you dont hang in a proper spot.......

[Greenlight]

TNhiker,

Thanks! I was going by the information I got from a couple of phone conversations with the backcountry office at GSMNP regarding the hammocks. They told me no hammocks in the shelters. She also told me "no hammocks anywhere in the park" but she must have been directing that at me, a non-thru hiker. Good catch.

Edit: BTW, how much is a citation?

both of those statements are incorrect...

hammocks cannot be hung using the shelter-----nor can they be used to sleep outside the shelter when full...

but, thru hikers can use a hammock---in trees----if the shelter is full........

also, other backcountry sites in the park allows for hanging in trees...

and yes, they have been handing out tickets if you dont hang in a proper spot.......

[TNhiker]

Edit: BTW, how much is a citation?

dont know----never had one......


but, i can take a guess----i think they start at 50 bucks and works it way up...........just a guess though......

[TNhiker]

from this page.

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-regs.htm


here's how the park words it......


8. Hammocks may only be used within designated backcountry campsites. They may not be used inside shelters and may not be attached to shelters in any way.

[MtDoraDave]

Greenlight said:
...I don't think they care about who sleeps where...
.
I disagree. I think they are truly trying to preserve as much of the natural aspect of the trail as possible. If people were allowed to camp/ tent wherever they wanted, there'd be cleared out spots everywhere the trail has a wide spot, covered with litter and cleared of fallen wood used for fire.
.
At the shelters, who sleeps where - I don't think they are very concerned about that.

[Greenlight]

I should have specified "who sleeps where" meaning in the shelters, at an established campsites, or hanging from the trees in or near either of those. Thanks for catching my vague thought.

Greenlight said:
...I don't think they care about who sleeps where...
.
I disagree. I think they are truly trying to preserve as much of the natural aspect of the trail as possible. If people were allowed to camp/ tent wherever they wanted, there'd be cleared out spots everywhere the trail has a wide spot, covered with litter and cleared of fallen wood used for fire.
.
At the shelters, who sleeps where - I don't think they are very concerned about that.

[RockDoc]

The rules are a bit of a joke. Many hikers immediately put up their tent as soon as they get to the shelter, mid-afternoon. This is way before the shelter is full, and many are not thru-hikers.

We followed the rules and were a little surprised at how little others cared about the rules. Never saw a ranger either.

[TNhiker]

And one can thank all those rule breakers for being the reason the park instituted a new reservation system a few years ago...

it simple math--what happens when people break rules? They add more rules......

[mhamby]

I went through SMNP the third week in April. Saw 2 ridge runners and 1 ranger. All were really nice, helpful folks. One RR asked if I had a permit, the other RR and the Ranger actually checked them. The RR at my last shelter required everyone to stay in the shelter. There were two groups of two hikers who were headed there (based on thruhiker conversations with these groups along the way). The RR asked for 4 volunteers to vacate the shelter and the rest of us stayed put. The RR enforced the rules but was very flexible when it came to who tented and who stayed.


The sites with no "enforcement" contact were pretty much free-for-alls. As mentioned earlier in this thread, tents were erected early in the day and most shelters were not full... except for the one with all the "recent bear activity signs" ! This one was full to capacity.

[magneto]

It's just a damn shame, what the trail has become.


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[Theosus]

I spoke with some thru-hikers last week that said they weren't even enforcing the rules about staying in the shelter because of a norovirus outbreak. As long as you were in the area around the shelter you were okay. This was in Erwin, TN - so these people had a bit of time to get north of the park, they may be back to enforcing the rules as written.

[peakbagger]

When I went through the park about 10 years ago there was little or no enforcement visible. The biggest issue was clueless folks underestimating the distance between shelters so they ended up at the wrong shelter and that tended to cascade for the rest of their trip. There is one shelter south of Newfound Gap that is fairly accessible from the road to the Mt Mitchell tower, we had an evening uniformed park service employee show up to check permits.