"Trail magic"

[John B]

Interesting that the issue seems to be increasingly controversial:

http://www.outsideonline.com/2096001/you-want-fries

[Sarcasm the elf]

I don't have much against hiker feeds, but if you tell me you're doing "trail magic" there had better be a magician present when I get there.

[egilbe]

Someone on here asked where the bubble was so he could put on a hiker feed. He recieved a chorus of boo's and suggested he spend his money and time investing in trail maintenance.

[Lone Wolf]

Someone on here asked where the bubble was so he could put on a hiker feed. He recieved a chorus of boo's and suggested he spend his money and time investing in trail maintenance.

exactly. why feed folks on vacation that have food and money?

[egilbe]

Thats just it. They are ​on vacation. Its not like they are homeless.

[MyFeetHurt]

exactly. why feed folks on vacation that have food and money?

For me personally, when I hiked I was really floored by the 'trail magic', or 'hiker feeds', I ran across while on the Trail. It was amazing to me then to have complete strangers wanting to play a small role in my hike. I gratefully accepted it, had great conversations with awesome people while enjoying the much-welcomed grub, and each time went back into the Woods feeling better. Those kinds of feelings stuck with me after my hike, so the next year I set up my own feed for hikers, knowing how it always felt for me and hoping it would make the new hikers feel the same. And in that trip we fed some great people and shot the **** about hiking and the Trail. Everyone had a blast.

I remember seeking out WhiteBlaze prior to my feed that year, looking for tips on where to set up, and being really surprised that I got so many negative responses. And reading that article (and others like it), and hearing many of the arguments about the prevalence of these things now and how it needs to be curbed in some way, I can understand some of their points. Though I do fail to see how maybe 10-15 days of getting a free lunch or breakfast puts much of a dent into the 'Wilderness Experience' when you're spending around 180 days sleeping in the Woods. I hardly feel like I missed out on the nature of the Trail by sharing a burger with someone every now and then.

I do agree Trail Maintenance is more important than feeding some hikers, but there's no denying the way the feeds, or 'trail magic', make both the giver and receiver feel. And I see no harm in spreading happiness wherever you can these days.

[MuddyWaters]

Its because its increasingly ...common. Its showing up other places too.

Thanks to social media, and the type person that uses it.

Anywhere theres a popular trail, and road access, theres seems to be someone that wants to feed vacationing hikers to feel connected.

Even people out for a short hikes. A couple weeks.

Some facebook dumbass wanted to get a party together on the JMT with likeminded fools.

The wrong kinds of people are hiking everywhere. Its too easy with an online support group to answer every question and encourage them.
These people hike for social aspects, not wilderness experience. Same reason many people want to do trail magic, social aspect. Buy some friends for a day.

[DLP]

I passed a large group on June 24th heading into the backcountry. The group included several hikers plus 2 horses and 3 mules taking hundreds of pounds of food, paper plates and cooking equipment for a 4 day spaghetti hiker feed. They were headed out to Vidette Meadow on the PCT/JMT, in Kings Canyon.

The meadow is 13 miles from the road in the middle of a National Park. I get that the PTC and JMT are no longer "wilderness" and this meadow is no longer "in the middle of nowhere". But a feeding station set up in a National Park meadow and miles from any road just seems so... sacra-religious. It made me really sad. It was the last day of a PERFECT trip and was a real bummer.

We walked several miles thru a horrific amount of horse/mule poop deposited on the trail by these "trail angels". There are a large number of bears in that area and it made me wonder about the impact this might have on wildlife.

Only good thing to come out of it was that I was compelled to make a donation to our county food bank when I got home.

Also, if people in CA or NV want to cook for people, look at the Tahoe Rim Trail Assn website: https://www.tahoerimtrail.org/index....kcountry-camps

"We need volunteers for 2016!We have a job for everyone at our Backcountry Camps. For these camps to be a success we need trail builders/maintainers as well as camp kitchen volunteers!"

[Malto]

I passed a large group on June 24th heading into the backcountry. The group included several hikers plus 2 horses and 3 mules taking hundreds of pounds of food, paper plates and cooking equipment for a 4 day spaghetti hiker feed. They were headed out to Vidette Meadow on the PCT/JMT, in Kings Canyon.

The meadow is 13 miles from the road in the middle of a National Park. I get that the PTC and JMT are no longer "wilderness" and this meadow is no longer "in the middle of nowhere". But a feeding station set up in a National Park meadow and miles from any road just seems so... sacra-religious. It made me really sad. It was the last day of a PERFECT trip and was a real bummer.

We walked several miles thru a horrific amount of horse/mule poop deposited on the trail by these "trail angels". There are a large number of bears in that area and it made me wonder about the impact this might have on wildlife.

Only good thing to come out of it was that I was compelled to make a donation to our county food bank when I got home.

Also, if people in CA or NV want to cook for people, look at the Tahoe Rim Trail Assn website: https://www.tahoerimtrail.org/index....kcountry-camps

"We need volunteers for 2016!We have a job for everyone at our Backcountry Camps. For these camps to be a success we need trail builders/maintainers as well as camp kitchen volunteers!"

That is very sad. I wonder how they fit hundred of pounds of food into canisters. I know those bear boxes are usually full and you're right that area is an active bear area. Maybe Trauma and Pepper had it right by hiking the trail in the winter.

[Mags]

It is a shame that hiker feeds have co-opted the phrase "trail magic". Organized hiker feeds are just that..organized hiker feeds. Not unexpected and spontaneous act of kindness.

These hiker feeds are very similar to a runner's aid station in size, scope but with arguably more impact.

AT hiker feed...Hardrock 100 aid station:





Trail maintenance is far more helpful to hikers than serving burgers.

If someone truly wants to give back, consider wielding a Pulaski for the weekend. Magical.

I expect more clampdowns on these hiker feeds ,and other hiker aid stations, in the near future. It has already happened. And the regulation is well on its way. Runner aid stations need permits. I don't expect these organized hiker feeds to be any different as they get on the radar more and more.

I leave with a final photo of some additional trail magic...

[MyFeetHurt]

So, a question for those who hiked, when presented with a random hiker feed did you just pass it by? A simple "no thanks" and on your way, or did you castigate the feeders and tell them their time/energy would be better spent doing trail maintenance? I get that there comes a point when it becomes too much, and granted my hike was 10 years ago and I don't really have a clear grasp on just how cumbersome these feeds may have become over the last several years, but they were always happy events on my hike. There was never one that me and my fellow hikers passed up, and the folks putting them on were always really kind and fun to hang out with for the short time we got to. This whole uproar about these things just seems so bizarre when reading about it - the discussions online seem so far removed from what I actually experienced in the Woods.

[DLP]

MyFeetHurt, There are people who give out soda and hot dogs and fruit on the PCT at Carson Pass. There is a ranger station and bathrooms and a parking lot and it is right on hwy 88. I've heard that they give out hot dogs to thru hikers and section hikers and weekenders and pretty much anybody with a backpack. I actually don't have too much of a problem with this. Carson Pass is hardly "wilderness" or "backcountry".

I don't see how packing in 600 lbs of food and equipment for a "Thru Hiker Spaghetti Feed" on mules into meadows in Kings Canyon is the same. There were 30-40 PCT thru hikers going thru that area each day. Basically, the equivalent of a food truck was set up in the backcountry for a long weekend. I imagine that there could be 50-100 people eating in the meadow each day. People have told me that that section is one of the most beautiful on the whole JMT. I find it very sad that it was turned into a hiker feed.

My sister initially wanted to participate in Trail Angel "work". After talking about it (and walking 5 miles thru mule poo)... we decided that it would be better to spend retirement helping the PCTA un-do "trail magic" or doing trail work. http://www.pcta.org/2015/problem-wat...hes-pct-27677/

[Time Zone]

I have a slightly different take on it. I think it's a really nice gesture, well-intended. However, I think it's unfortunate and absurd to have such Trail Magic scheduled right near Springer Mountain, as at least one group did this spring (maybe it was the approach trail!). Seems to me it would mean a lot more to a hiker that's been out there for a few weeks at least, and hasn't had certain foods / treats in a long time. And as if it needs to be said: if it's overdone, it's not so magic. It's the rarity that preserves its value.

Leaving food in the woods to be found is just foolish and indicative of tone-deaf outdoor ethics.

Just my opinion.

[John B]

So, a question for those who hiked, when presented with a random hiker feed did you just pass it by?

My last hike, yes, I walked by and didn't take anything.

In regard to Mags suggestion, if any KY or southern Ohio hikers would like to do trail magic, please consider helping out the Red River Gorge Trail Crew, which meets the second Saturday of every month to clear dead falls, cut back vegetation, etc. www.rrgtc.com Tomorrow we will meet at the Sky Bridge parking lot to rebuild stairs. If enough show up, then other crews will be sent out with crosscut saws and axes to clear trails -- heavy storms this month caused some significant damage. There won't be free hotdogs or drinks and you'll have to bring your own water, though.

[rocketsocks]

I thought backpacking was to get away from all the conveniences of everyday life.

[map man]

I don't like to see consumables (other than water) left unattended.

In my limited experience with hiker feeds the organizers seem to clean up after themselves and don't leave food unattended. When they do this I have no problem with hiker feeds -- I think they fall under the category of "random acts of kindness." I think the feeling of camaraderie present at them that MyFeetHurt talks about is real.

There is nothing mutually exclusive about putting on a trail feed and doing volunteer work for trail organizations, and I am sure there are many who do both.

When Andrew Downs of the ATC says (in the linked article) “oblivious burger-flippers are pouring beer down the throats of expectant hikers at every road crossing in Georgia in March and April,” he is engaging in hyperbole.

[Traveler]

Trail magic is way different than organized hiker feeds. Trail magic tends to be anonymous, like putting containers of water near a mapped water source when its dry. No one knows who that angel is, but angels they are. Organized hiker feeds are a lot different, but can be a pleasant discovery for some if conditions are right, however they can be considered invasive by others, which both are legitimate points of view Feeders should consider.

I have not had too many issues with Feeds over time, but the ones I have had can be easily mitigated:

Be careful in site selection. Poorly placed feeds can require people to thread through a crowd and/or around parked cars to continue on the trail. Position the Feed away from the crossing and protect the crossing from congregating people and parked vehicles when you can.

Noise pollution can be an issue, so if you are planning one please do it without loud music playing (that sound can carry for quite a distance).

The other issue is litter these things can generate not just around the immediate Feeding area, but also the stuff that blows away downwind or is taken along the trail a few dozen yards and left that gives Feeds a bad name. Be sure to police the area well, including downwind of the event and a few hundred yards up the trail (both directions) for any paper plates, wrappers, or other detritus dropped by hikers from your event. You may find a lot of litter that is not from your event when you do this, but leaving no trace means taking litter that can be associated with you away.

As a last item of note, consider an "information" table. Have a small table set up right by the trail with copies of information hikers can access without having to interact with Feeders or congregants if they opt not to. For example, a map of known water sources over the next few miles each way and what their current conditions are (you can ask hikers coming into the Feed and with a laptop and portable printer make them up on the spot). A map showing the next few road crossings each way and what services you can find like food, groceries, medical, etc. A weather report detailing the next 5 days forecast can be very handy.

These are just some suggestions on how to improve a Feed less invasive. However, I do agree that instead of feeding people on vacation, sponsoring a work party and feeding them or using the same funds to perform a specific project would be really cool and a great help to the local trail maintenance committee who would love to have you participate. Feeding maintenance crews is never a bad idea either!

[mandolindave]

Its because its increasingly ...common. Its showing up other places too.

Thanks to social media, and the type person that uses it.

Anywhere theres a popular trail, and road access, theres seems to be someone that wants to feed vacationing hikers to feel connected.

Even people out for a short hikes. A couple weeks.

Some facebook dumbass wanted to get a party together on the JMT with likeminded fools.

The wrong kinds of people are hiking everywhere. Its too easy with an online support group to answer every question and encourage them.
These people hike for social aspects, not wilderness experience. Same reason many people want to do trail magic, social aspect. Buy some friends for a day.

I want to agree with you 115 %. I used to hike LNF ( Leave No Footprint ) I loved to imagine that it was 50,000 years ago. Seldom... if at all saw other hikers. I would cuss at jets disturbing the silence. Camping within five miles of a car was for punks. Motor homes were driven by The Devil himself. But I have to wonder. Why would someone who values Wilderness Hiking/Camping hike The A.T. ??? ( Shelters, privies, water sources, road crossings, motels, hostels ) I have diversified my camping agenda. I have a travel trailer, and camp at Bluegrass Festivals with thousands of people around me.( FUN !!! ) I day hike, section hike, and sleep in my van from time to time. I'm thinking that if you hike the A.T., you have to HYOH, and let others do the same. I enjoy the social aspect of the A.T., plus the shade from time to time, and not having to carry 16 pounds of water. Many of my most vivid memories are of other hikers. Meeting a hiker going the other way, after not seeing a soul for three days, telling him not to miss the wild roses, him talking about getting buzzed by a humming bird. Singing a song to a girl wearing make up at a trailhead campfire.

[Mags]

So, a question for those who hiked, when presented with a random hiker feed did you just pass it by?

If it is on FaceBook, scheduled and and has multiple canopies and they are carting in hundreds pounds of supplies as above..not sure how random it is?

I truly think people are going to start needing permits for these "random" (ha!) hiker aid stations much like runner aid stations.

Trail Magic is when I met a couple at a lean to. They owned a farm in nearby Vermont and put me up for the night.

Darn right I'll continue to suggest to people spend their resources on volunteer work rather than hundreds of pounds of food. Being an active volunteer for an outdoor group, I a biased as to what is helpful for trails and hikers. Beautiful scenery and giving back to the trail is truly magical.

In person? I'd probably be polite. But I could not hike the more popular lettered routes at this point in my life I think.

A compromise is at a busy road crossing a little away from trailhead as many people suggest. Those who wish to feed vacationers can do so. Those who'd rather not deal with it can move on easily.

More trail magic:

[mandolindave]

Vacationers ???? I think most people on the trails ARE vacationers. I said MOST, not all. What I mean is, unless you are using the trail to commute to work, or you live full time on the trail, or you do trail maintenance….you are on vacation. Yeah, retirees are a grey area ( no pun intended )

Wow…there sure are quite a few labels and categories to divide us. I guess just like in real life. So many people to look up to, that are more important than me.
I only have the dumb ass fools, and accordion players, to be superior to, although some may argue that point.