Permithrin Treating...

[Lnj]

What should be treated/soaked in Permithrin and what should not? I did read the bottle, and it seemed to say it was safe enough for mammals, but it warn against direct contact with skin until fully dry. So what happens when you sweat like a pig and soak it again? So far, I have drenched my tent(outside only), my pack(outside only), and my boots. I am about to do my clothes, but before I go hog wild, I thought I'd ask the general population. Do you go as far as underwear, or just the outer most layer? Are socks ok? Is it ok to drench my pup? She's a 8 month old Texas Heeler.

Any advice and/or stories of experience would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Sprout78]

I sent my clothing away to have it treated for the following reasons:
1. The repellent lasts longer (70 washes)
2. It is treated in a contained environment, which is better for me and the environment
3. It guarantees even coverage over all clothing

They do everything but undergarments (underwear). I sent my trail clothing away, and they took care of this process (including shipping time) within 10 days. The process was very painless. There are excellent reviews about this company from Appalachian Trail thru-hikers who watched other people struggle with bugs on the trail, but didn't have problems themselves.

Here is the link:

http://www.insectshield.com/IS_Your_...s/default.aspx

Happy trails!

[Red Cinema]

I treat my stuff at home. I don't do any fabric into which I will sweat copiously; personal preference. I know others treat everything they wear. FWIW,

[Offshore]

What should be treated/soaked in Permithrin and what should not? I did read the bottle, and it seemed to say it was safe enough for mammals, but it warn against direct contact with skin until fully dry. So what happens when you sweat like a pig and soak it again? So far, I have drenched my tent(outside only), my pack(outside only), and my boots. I am about to do my clothes, but before I go hog wild, I thought I'd ask the general population. Do you go as far as underwear, or just the outer most layer? Are socks ok? Is it ok to drench my pup? She's a 8 month old Texas Heeler.

Any advice and/or stories of experience would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Its not that dermal contact is particularly dangerous, its that its not an effective pesticide when applied to the skin (e.g., not shown to be effective or registered as a dermally-applied insecticide). Once its applied and dried, its fine even if you do sweat. I treat my shirt, pants, socks, shoes and pack (putting the pack down and then putting it back on is one way to transfer ticks). I never did underwear, but I did notice that InsectShield, the company that treats clothing for manufacturers (as well as for individuals who send theirs in) will now treat underwear. I've gone to buying InsectShield clothing and sending my existing clothing in for "permanent" treatment (~$10/item). Its just easier than spraying and waiting to dry and it lasts for 70 washings - effectively the expected life of the garment. I still spray my shoes and pack. I can't comment on spraying your dog - talk to your vet or read the instructions very carefully. It is deadly to cats until its dry.

[Offshore]

I sent my clothing away to have it treated for the following reasons:
1. The repellent lasts longer (70 washes)
2. It is treated in a contained environment, which is better for me and the environment
3. It guarantees even coverage over all clothing

They do everything but undergarments (underwear). I sent my trail clothing away, and they took care of this process (including shipping time) within 10 days. The process was very painless. There are excellent reviews about this company from Appalachian Trail thru-hikers who watched other people struggle with bugs on the trail, but didn't have problems themselves.

Here is the link:

http://www.insectshield.com/IS_Your_...s/default.aspx

Happy trails!

They just recently removed the underwear restriction. When I sent clothing to them in March, they specifically excluded underwear in their list. In the last month, I know of people who sent underwear in to be treated with no objection from InsectShield.

I highly recommend them - I especially like how they applied InsectShield labels to my stuff so I know what was treated and what was not. This was probably due to some regulation since the clothing technically becomes a pesticide so needs to show an EPA registration number, but still a convenient plus.

[hikernutcasey]

Personally I just spread my stuff out in the driveway and spray them down. I spray everything I will be wearing except for underwear including my shoes. It must work as I've never found a tick on me after I started using the stuff.

[Lnj]

Wish I had more time. I would definitely be going the send-off route. Alas, I am heading out on Friday, so I am doing the "spray at home in your basement" route. I guess really the only question is the under-roos. I wonder why they didn't do those before and if they are doing them now, why? I can ask that on their website though, not here. I do know the stuff is toxic to cats when wet, but doe snot have the same effect on dogs or other mammals, according to the label. They actually put this stuff in those dog flea collars. I think she will be fine, but I think I will actually call the Permithrin company and ask to be sure. I just don't want her getting eaten up, especially since she will be sleeping in my tent with me and very likely in my sleeping bag too!

[bigcranky]

I spray my long johns bottoms and my long sleeve wool top, both of which I wear while sleeping. I don't wear underwear on the trail, but I spray my shorts inside-out, and my socks, and my wool hiking t-shirt. Haven't had tick problems since we started doing this.

[Snowleopard]

The US military uses permethrin on clothes and time release DEET (e.g., Ultrathon brand) on exposed skin. In their documents they say don't treat underwear and head bands, so I don't. I do spray the outside of hats. I've been leaning towards using Insectshield clothes. I spray shoes and socks. If you don't wear long pants and long sleeve shirts, use Ultrathon on legs and arms. For mosquitos and black flies, bring a headnet. Once the permethrin is dry, it's bonded to the fabric and not much will be absorbed by your skin.

I wouldn't spray the dog with permethrin. On humans, and I assume on dogs, the spray deactivates quickly on skin. There are better treatments for dogs that can't be used by humans ( collars, Front Line, etc.); ask a vet or pet store.

[Offshore]

The US military uses permethrin on clothes and time release DEET (e.g., Ultrathon brand) on exposed skin. In their documents they say don't treat underwear and head bands, so I don't. I do spray the outside of hats. I've been leaning towards using Insectshield clothes. I spray shoes and socks. If you don't wear long pants and long sleeve shirts, use Ultrathon on legs and arms. For mosquitos and black flies, bring a headnet. Once the permethrin is dry, it's bonded to the fabric and not much will be absorbed by your skin.

I wouldn't spray the dog with permethrin. On humans, and I assume on dogs, the spray deactivates quickly on skin. There are better treatments for dogs that can't be used by humans ( collars, Front Line, etc.); ask a vet or pet store.

I remember reading somewhere (possibly on the Sawyer or tickencounter.org website) that the reason that the military doesn't treat undergarments is that they felt it isn't needed due to the outer uniform being treated, so it was a cost rather than a safety issue. As far as headbands, that's odd as both Buff and ExOffico offer InsectShield treated buffs designed to be used as headwear.

[Snowleopard]

I remember reading somewhere (possibly on the Sawyer or tickencounter.org website) that the reason that the military doesn't treat undergarments is that they felt it isn't needed due to the outer uniform being treated, so it was a cost rather than a safety issue. As far as headbands, that's odd as both Buff and ExOffico offer InsectShield treated buffs designed to be used as headwear.

That could well be; the documents I saw did not give a reason for not treating undergarments. Still, I would always wear long pants on trail so I would be protected anyway.

Following up on Offshore's recollection gets some interesting articles:
http://www.tickencounter.org/prevention/permethrin

How safe is Permethrin and Permethrin-treated Clothing?

Quick Facts :

• Permethrin is over 2,250 times moretoxic to ticks than humans; so just a little bit provides great protection safely.
• The EPA states "...There is reasonable certainty that Permethrin-treated clothing poses no harm to infants or children".
• Put directly on the skin, typically less than 1% of active ingredient is absorbed into the body; DEET can be absorbed at over 20 times that rate.
• Exposure risk of Permethrin-treated clothing to toddlers is 27 times below the EPA's Level of Concern (LOC).
• A 140-pound person would have no adverse health effects if exposed to 32 gms of permethrin/day.There is less than 1 gram of permethrin in an entire bottle of clothing treatment.
• A 5% cream (10 times the dose) is recommended to treat children and infants with mites calledscabies.

Tickencounter.org is the University of Rhode Island and their info seems science based. It's well worth spending time browsing it.
http://www.tickencounter.org/pub/tic...t_clothing.pdf
http://www.tickencounter.org/research/summer_clothing
http://www.tickencounter.org/news/news_repellent_090607
http://www.tickencounter.org/news/news_repellent_images
The conclusion of the above research is that permethrin gives quite a bit of protection even when wearing treated shorts, tee shirt, socks and shoes. I'll still wear treated long sleeve shirts and long pants in the woods, but will be make sure that my shoes and socks are treated.

DON'T FORGET FOOTWEAR - Since it's deer tick nymphs that transmit Lyme disease, and since these ticks are hidden in leaf litter, having effective protection against these ticks is most important for staying safe at camp, or the backyard. Nymph ticks mostly latch on to shoes and climb up. That makes tick repellent shoes one of the best and easiest first lines of defense against Lyme disease. PERMETHRIN sprays are the best way to apply.

I think that is a misstatement: adult deer ticks also transmit lyme, but it looks like treated shoes and socks make a big difference.

[Theosus]

I treat everything that I wear. Get a big old 5 gallon bucket, mix a 2 or 3 gallon emulsion per the instructions, and dunk everything. buff, shirts, kilt, socks, underwear. Then hang on a line outside and dry it. Once dry, I rinse it once in the washer and dry on low. Can't smell it any more afterwards. Then I take the leftovers in the bucket, put in a garden sprayer and spray around the house foundation. Helps keep out ants and such. I hadn't thought of spraying shoes, thats a good point.

[newtgirl]

I'm a prairie ecologist, so I deal with my fair share of ticks.

For field work, I treat my boots, gaiters, and my pack (they LOVE sweaty backpacks). That's usually plenty. That being said, we only have wood ticks, which are enormous and easy to spot should they get through the defenses. In deer tick territory, I would do all my outer layers, no inner layers. If you've layered correctly, they shouldn't get to your underwear.

I've worked in permethrin-soaked clothing for years. I don't think it's had any adverse effects.

Don't spray your dog; that's not how this stuff works. It bonds to fabric. It'll wash right out. Get frontline (which can't be used on people; I've asked!).

[perrito]

I treat all of my gear, except for undershorts, every year at the beginning of the season. I use the Martins 10% solution w/o petroleum distillates and cut it 19:1 to get it down to the 0.5% recommended solution. I start with a tad less than 1.5 gallons of warm water and add 10 oz. of the permethrin. All of my outer wear gets a dunking then I wring them out and hang them to dry.
Don't forget to treat your pack too. I use a sock. I saturate it in the solution and squeeze/blot my packs and shoes.
And remember to use gloves. A cheap pair of dish washing gloves from the dollar store will do.
It sucks to have Lyme and the treatment is no fun either. All of this prep is worth it.

[perrito]

Oh! I also take some of the left over solution and wipe down the window screens in the house. Just remember to keep cats away from this stuff while it's wet.

[Lnj]

What we have done so far is to get the spray bottle and just spray all of our outer clothing except underwear, including boots and socks, packs, dog's pack, tent (outside only), and tent footprint. We didn't dilute it at all. Just sprayed it right from the bottle onto our stuff and thoroughly drenched everything. Just pinned it up on rigged clothesline and let it dry. Is that concentration too strong? Should we wash or rinse our clothes before wearing them? We read the bottle and it didn't mention any dilution advise. ??

[Hoofit]

What we have done so far is to get the spray bottle and just spray all of our outer clothing except underwear, including boots and socks, packs, dog's pack, tent (outside only), and tent footprint. We didn't dilute it at all. Just sprayed it right from the bottle onto our stuff and thoroughly drenched everything. Just pinned it up on rigged clothesline and let it dry. Is that concentration too strong? Should we wash or rinse our clothes before wearing them? We read the bottle and it didn't mention any dilution advise. ??

Permethrin , as mentioned by Perrito, should be diluted to approximately 0.5 % ....
The bottle I bought was already 10% and so diluting it by 1 in 20 brings it down to 0.5 %.
Check the concentration on the bottle just to be sure.
I almost went 5% only to realize it is 0.5 %, a tenth of my original estimate!
Safe travels!

[Lnj]

Permethrin , as mentioned by Perrito, should be diluted to approximately 0.5 % ....
The bottle I bought was already 10% and so diluting it by 1 in 20 brings it down to 0.5 %.
Check the concentration on the bottle just to be sure.
I almost went 5% only to realize it is 0.5 %, a tenth of my original estimate!
Safe travels!

So now that I have already soaked everything at 100% of the bottle contents, with no dilution, now what? Do I wash my stuff to knock it down a tad? Has anyone ever used it without diluting it? I will call the permithrin people and ask them, but if anyone has any experience with using it straight from the spray bottle it comes in, I would be very interested in hearing the results of that.

[perrito]

Did you use Sawyers? The 10% stuff doesn't come in a spray bottle.

[Lnj]

Yes, it was Sawyers, bought at Dick's in a spray bottle. I would think anything so strong to require dilution would come in a bottle with a cap, to better facilitate the mixing, not a pump sprayer.