Would a federal freedom to roam law work in USA?

[Oslohiker]

I am a Norwegian, and I spend most of my vacations in the US (about seventeen now). I have also worked there, and been a student there. There are a lot I love about USA, but the lack of freedom to roam has annoyed me quite a lot.

What is freedom to roam, and how does it work?
Well, there are differences between countries, but here is how it works in Norway:
- You can hike in any wilderness areas, who ever owns it (also on private land), and no one can deny you that.
- You can put up a tent, as long as it is at least 150 meters from the nearest building.
- You can stay in the same spot at a maximum three days in a row.
- You can even bike on the trails.

What has annoyed me in the US.
- Most land you can’t hike freely on, because it is private property. And if it is not private, you often have to have a permit. In Norway a permit is unheard of, and we don’t pay anything to enter National parks.
- You have to have knowledge about who owns the wilderness you want to enter. You don’t have to check anything in Norway. If it is wilderness, you can use it.

Could this work in the US? Would anyone here on White blaze want this system?

[Malto]

I can't imagine someone setting up a tent in Bill Gate's backyard for three nights. Exchange Bill Gates with any other "elite" and this is why it is unlikely to happen. Private property rights have a long history in the US for right or wrong.

[Oslohiker]

I can't imagine someone setting up a tent in Bill Gate's backyard for three nights. Exchange Bill Gates with any other "elite" and this is why it is unlikely to happen. Private property rights have a long history in the US for right or wrong.

You got a good point here. The law does not just cover wilderness. Just a long it is at least 150 meters away from a house, you can use it. "Bill gates backyard" would work just fine in Norway. There has been some legal disputes regarding putting up illegal fences in order to deny people access. (It reminds me of the disputes around beach access in Malibu). You can even freely use privately owned piers or wharfs.

[Uriah]

Here in the US we seem to value property more than human life. Private property basically means NO TRESPASSING! It's one of the reasons The Monkey Wrench Gang hasn't been made into a movie, because a film showing the wanton destruction of p-r-o-p-e-r-t-y sends the wrong message, while human-on-human violence is absolutely okay (and a big seller at the box office).

[DavidNH]

Oslo hiker.. setting up your tent on private land, without the landowner's knowledge andwithout any standing agreement will only lead to trouble. Big trouble.

[Oslohiker]

Oslo hiker.. setting up your tent on private land, without the landowner's knowledge andwithout any standing agreement will only lead to trouble. Big trouble.

Not if there is a law that says you can?

[Feral Bill]

All else aside, our system of government leaves such things to the states. The federal government has no authority in this area.

[MuddyWaters]

Do you know why europeans come HERE to hike?

because its much less restricted than in europe.

Heres the problem in a nutshell. Too little land there, too many people.

Were working on the same problem.

[Oslohiker]

Do you know why europeans come HERE to hike?

because its much less restricted than in europe.

Heres the problem in a nutshell. Too little land there, too many people.

Were working on the same problem.

I highly doubt that many Europeans come to hike in the US. Do you have any numbers?

In Norway half the population hike one or more times every year. How many Norwegians have thru-hiked the Appalachian trail?
(My motivation would be for the love of USA and the American culture).

What is more restricted in Europe? Please explain.

[MuddyWaters]

I highly doubt that many Europeans come to hike in the US. Do you have any numbers?

In Norway half the population hike one or more times every year. How many Norwegians have thru-hiked the Appalachian trail?
(My motivation would be for the love of USA and the American culture).

What is more restricted in Europe? Please explain.

Plenty of germans hike the AT each year
For instance, from what I know of, its almost impossible to legally camp anywhere in germany except a commercial campground designed for car camping. Every forest in the country has a forestmeister that tickets people for illegal camping. To take a simple trip is supposed to be a huge hassle.

Its not just for hiking, but there tends to be many europeans , especially germans, in Yosemite national park.

[Oslohiker]

Plenty of germans hike the AT each year
For instance, from what I know of, its almost impossible to legally camp anywhere in germany except a commercial campground designed for car camping. Every forest in the country has a forestmeister that tickets people for illegal camping. To take a simple trip is supposed to be a huge hassle.

Its not just for hiking, but there tends to be many europeans , especially germans, in Yosemite national park.

There is a documentary about Appalachian trail that has run in Germany like forever. That has inspired a lot of Germans to thru-hike the Appalachian trails. But I promise you that there are several times more Germans in Norway during the summer time enjoying the freedom to roam.

You are right in that many Europeans visit National Parks in the US. They have a love for American culture, and visit everything they have heard of "over there". The big cities and the most known national parks. And they eat hamburgers and drink Budweiser, and feel real American. But it is nothing wrong with that. But go to some of the less known and you will hardly find any.

[admirald7s]

But I promise you that there are several times more Germans in Norway during the summer time enjoying the freedom to roam.

As you said in post #9, got any numbers to go with that? If you're saying you need numbers and sources to believe us, it's only fair for you to provide the same before we believe you.


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[Dogwood]

Basically UNLIMITED opportunities to hike, backpack, trek, walk about, roam, etc in the U.S. However, as also in Norway, freedom does not equate with the absence of any rules or regulations.

Enjoy your walks wherever they may be.

I highly doubt that many Europeans come to hike in the US. Do you have any numbers?

In Norway half the population hike one or more times every year. How many Norwegians have thru-hiked the Appalachian trail?…

https://www.nps.gov/tourism/Research...ndvisitors.pdf

The NPS is the place to go to find out how many non U.S. citizens visit the U.S. National Parks each year. According to this 1998 report 21% of the nearly 24 million foreign visitors to the U.S. who arrived here by airlines visited the then 50 U.S. National Parks then in existence. These are only the 50 NPs not the several hundred places the NPS oversees. The majority of these foreign visitors are from Europe. If you allow me the latitude to hypothesize those numbers are significantly higher in 2015. These numbers don't include foreigners who visit and hike in U.S. State Parks, Wilderness Areas, National Seashores, National Monuments, Wildlife Refuges, land overseen by Bureau of Land Management, National Forests, etc.

Don't assume the Appalachian Trail IS THE PLACE that foreigners, or ALL AMERICANS flock to hike in the U.S. The AT is not the center of the global or U.S. hiking world despite easily coming to this mistaken conclusion because one may only be familiar with forums such as White Blaze where the AT is by far the focus. For reference, as a rather socialite on some LD hikes(at least I was in 2006), on a 2006 AT 4.5 month NOBO Thru-hike I recorded in my trail journal meeting AT hikers from 29 different(non U.S.) countries.

[tdoczi]

I highly doubt that many Europeans come to hike in the US.

seldom does one read such a drastically ill informed statement.

[Oslohiker]

seldom does one read such a drastically ill informed statement.

Since you claim I am ill informed, that indirectly means that you are informed. Please inform me with your information.

[tdoczi]

Since you claim I am ill informed, that indirectly means that you are informed. Please inform me with your information.

ive hiked all over the US (have you?) and regularly meet europeans who have come here to hike. i dare say you cant go to a major hiking area in this country without meeting a few.

[rafe]

Do you know why europeans come HERE to hike?

because its much less restricted than in europe.

Heres the problem in a nutshell. Too little land there, too many people.

Were working on the same problem.

Europeans do lots of hiking. They're not as anal about private property as we are in the USA.

[Dogwood]

Europeans do lots of hiking. They're not as anal about private property as we are in the USA.

Really? Apply that across the board to private property remembering private property is defined by much more than land. But for practice go set your tent up in someone's backyard in Berlin, Edinburgh, London, Moscow, Paris, Rome, etc and see how that goes.

[rafe]

Really? Apply that across the board to private property remembering private property is defined by much more than land. But for practice go set your tent up in someone's backyard in Berlin, Edinburgh, London, Moscow, Paris, Rome, etc and see how that goes.

I've camped along edges of fields and meadows, along beaches, hilltops in Switzerland, dunes in Israel. Camped at the summit of Vesuvius, and for weeks along a beach in Morocco. Never harassed by private citizens. (Though that beach in Morocco was where my pack was stolen out of our car one night.)

Camping in Spain along beaches, we were occasionally woken by armed officers who, once assured we were not smugglers, and were moving on shortly, went on their way and left us alone.

On a hilltop in Gibraltar we awoke one morning to see military exercises going on just a few hundred feet away. No guns were involved, however, and the soldiers appeared to be unaware of us. It was surreal.

[Nodust]

I have enough problems with people on my land illegally. Hunting, fishing, whatever. They cut fences letting cows out, damage gates, destroy hay bales for winter feed. Why would land I worked hard to pay for just be available to anyone?

I love to hike, camp , and roam, but there is more than enough public land to do that.

Permits aren't that tough to get when you need them.


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