gear for kids

[charliethruhike]

I have a 4 year old that has developed excitement around camping, and when backpacking was described his first question was "Can I go with you?"

Has anyone here run into backpacks and other gear for young kids? Don't need a lot of room as most of his job will be getting from point A to B, but I am curious on what is available. Currently he has a mini mule from camelbak for a backpack, and his sleeping back is decidedly not for backpacking.

[CalebJ]

To keep things simple, you can make a lot of his initial gear for warmer weather trips. A closed cell pad is dirt cheap and can be cut to size. Take an old poncho liner for less than $20 and cut/sew it into a size appropriate quilt. A bookbag might work well for a first backpack given the minimal volume of gear you're likely to give him at first.

[misprof]

To keep things simple, you can make a lot of his initial gear for warmer weather trips. A closed cell pad is dirt cheap and can be cut to size. Take an old poncho liner for less than $20 and cut/sew it into a size appropriate quilt. A bookbag might work well for a first backpack given the minimal volume of gear you're likely to give him at first.

What kind of poncho has a liner? I am interested in this idea.

[CalebJ]

What kind of poncho has a liner? I am interested in this idea.

The US military (and possible others - no idea) has for many years issued a lightweight synthetic blanket designed to tie into the issued poncho. By itself, it's a very useful piece of gear that people often hang on to after the end of their service. Here's a bit more info:
http://taskandpurpose.com/why-the-wo...-ever-fielded/

While there are lighter/warmer options on the market, this one is very serviceable for a summer weight option and can be easily acquired used online for about $20.

[DuneElliot]

What kind of poncho has a liner? I am interested in this idea.

I have one. It's called a woobie. I have it for emergencies in my truck.

Poncho

Woobie

[Sarcasm the elf]

To keep things simple, you can make a lot of his initial gear for warmer weather trips. A closed cell pad is dirt cheap and can be cut to size. Take an old poncho liner for less than $20 and cut/sew it into a size appropriate quilt. A bookbag might work well for a first backpack given the minimal volume of gear you're likely to give him at first.

I like this idea. I've got an old mil-surplus liner and love it for car camping and the like. My buddy that was in the service says the newer liners are more or less good to use as a 45degree quilt by themselves.

[Just Bill]

I like this idea. I've got an old mil-surplus liner and love it for car camping and the like. My buddy that was in the service says the newer liners are more or less good to use as a 45degree quilt by themselves.

The Liners use a version of Primaloft, though it's hard to find out exactly which flavor (Silver, Gold, ONE) But I'm fairly sure it is version of 60gsm Gold/ONE based upon performance and listed weights.
The extensive quilting used indicates this as well.

This is the same insulation as you would find in a Patagonia Nano-Puff- with the brick style quilting.
60 gsm -(2 oz per SQYD) requires quilting 3" O.C.
100 GSM- (3 oz per SQYD) requires quilting 6" O.C.

These are full sewn through quilted pieces.
The minimum I use in my stuff is the 100gsm material. With a non-sewn through construction technique- the rating is 45*. Sewn through is about 50*.

By the numbers- the military poncho liner would be a 55* rating on it's own. Using it with the poncho likely gets you to 50*.
A service member (fit, youthful (mid 20's), healthy, and male) fits the "expert" model in the EN ratings... meaning they can typically sleep about 10* cooler than the average user.

So EN rating style-
Expert- 45*
Comfort rating- 55*
Women's rating- 60* (kiddos would fall into this)
Cold sleeper- 65*

Double it up and you would basically have pretty decent 40* bag for the average sleeper (comfort rating).

at roughly 60x80...
You could cut one in half and make either of the two bags I showed my kiddos in above...
Cut in half- to 60"x40"

FOR A QUILT- Add a channel to the "foot end" fold it in half (to 60x20) and sew up the foot end side closed for about 18" and you will have a nice quilt (like the one my son is in)

For a rectangle style sleeping bag- Fold it in half the other way 40" x 30"- Add a 24" zipper to the side, then sew closed the rest of the side and the bottom closed. (or use a full zip if you want to open it up).

That would give you two (fairly high quality) 60* kids bag for about $20 bucks each.
If you got one kiddo- make two quilts and you can then use one in summer and add the extra one for shoulder seasons.

[Nodust]

If you could find the Walmard Ozark 32°F bags on sale those are great for kids. I paid $25 for them a few years ago. Good for people up to about 5'9" and I wouldn't take it to 32°F but they kept my kids warm at 40°F. Now that they have proven they take care of good gear they got Wilderness Logics 15°F quilts.

My younger son has been using a ULA CDT for the past three years. He is very small for his age and it carries well for him. Just keep the load under 20#.

At 4 I would just put a stuffed animal, water bottle, and a snack for them to carry. They will love it.

[Slo-go'en]

A 4 year old isn't going to be able to carry much, and shouldn't. He'll also out grow anything pretty quickly. So, as Caleb suggested, use a cheap book bag which he can carry a few piece of clothes and snacks in just to make him feel like he's part of the effort.

[-Rush-]

I have an Osprey Youth Ace 38 which is fully adjustable and can handle anything a kid would need on the trail. It's like a small version of the Osprey Atmos pack. My son is 5 and the lowest setting fits him well. You can find it much cheaper. I think I paid $100 for it.

https://www.amazon.com/Osprey-038238.../dp/B00U3B9VEC

[charliethruhike]

I have an Osprey Youth Ace 38 which is fully adjustable and can handle anything a kid would need on the trail. It's like a small version of the Osprey Atmos pack. My son is 5 and the lowest setting fits him well. You can find it much cheaper. I think I paid $100 for it.

https://www.amazon.com/Osprey-038238.../dp/B00U3B9VEC

How small is your son? My son is 43 inch tall, and pretty wiry.

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[-Rush-]

How small is your son? My son is 43 inch tall, and pretty wiry.

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He's about 45" tall and fit.

[Feral Bill]

I have a 4 year old that has developed excitement around camping, and when backpacking was described his first question was "Can I go with you?"

As you will soon learn, he does not go with you, you go with him. That said, seeing the world through a child's eyes can be refreshing, even enlightening. Search out one or more "backpacking with kids" books to prepare. Even if they are outdated in details, the principles remain. Have fun!

[swisscross]

My 9 yo daughter, 52", 55 lbs, a rail, tried on several adjustable kids packs.
They all swallowed her whole. None had a small enough waist belt.
Took a chance on the Dueter Climber. Not adjustable but it fits.
It is only 22 liters but I really wanted to the pack weight low thus a non issue.
I can fit a sleeping bag, sleep clothes, sleeping pad and a stuffed animal in it as well as some small things on the brain.

[Farr Away]

When my son started backpacking, his pack (old bookbag) had a snack, water, fleece & a stuffed animal. He also wore a whistle around his neck. As he's gotten older, his pack has included more of his gear. At 13, he carries most of his gear; the only stuff he doesn't carry is joint use - like the cook set.

Keep in mind that at 4, you will most likely end up carrying him & his pack at times.

-FA

[charliethruhike]

When my son started backpacking, his pack (old bookbag) had a snack, water, fleece & a stuffed animal. He also wore a whistle around his neck. As he's gotten older, his pack has included more of his gear. At 13, he carries most of his gear; the only stuff he doesn't carry is joint use - like the cook set.

Keep in mind that at 4, you will most likely end up carrying him & his pack at times.

-FA

Generally we end up taking breaks for tree id, and will start lessons in tracking animals on our next trip on our breaks.

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[-Rush-]

Keep in mind that at 4, you will most likely end up carrying him & his pack at times.

-FA

It really depends on the individual. My son did his first 7 mile day at 4 years old without being carried up, down, and around a mountain with 1079ft of elevation gain in 1.9 miles. At the time he had a Camelbak kid's hydration backpack with a liter of water, a sawyer mini, and his own set of supplies. Around 6 miles he asked me if I'd carry him, but I said no and allowed him to stop and rest whenever he needed. He made it just fine and got to bed early.

FWIW his pack weighed about 4lbs and he weighed about 38lbs.

[Just Bill]

My guy is 6 in November- but smallish (45" tall and 35lbs or so).
We are working on getting him a pack to carry- but as Caleb mentioned- just a simple Spidey man kids pack was plenty. If you wanted to push- I'd stick with 20% of bodyweight total.
But as you mentioned- it might be worth a trip to REI to try on a few of the smaller womens packs/running/hydration models and see what happens.

We are working on keeping things compact and SUL for the kids in general- since parents will carry it anyway- that seems to be the best option.
That said-
kiddo bags.jpg
Here are two kiddo bags I made for my son and daughter. Basic bag made with a bit heavier shell (HyperD 1.0) for abuse, and Primaloft Gold insulation.
They both weigh 12 ounces finished and pack to a cantaloupe size.
His is a quilt style that is 56 tall by 42 wide, with a simple sewn footbox (18").
Hers is the same quilt but folded up into a sleeping bag with a half zip. Roughly 42" tall by 56" circumference and a 24" zipper on one side. (she's 2 and a squirmer so we wanted her "trapped".)

If you're on the ground- that is a Exped Hyperlight Duomat they are on- which is tight for two adults but just right for a kiddo and a parent to share, and at 27 ounces is about the same as going with a large neo-air for me and a small neo-air for my son. This combo works a bit better and unlike the Neo-air- my son can blow up the Exped himself with the schnozzle bag that comes with it.

If you made these with a SUL shell (Membrane 10) they would drop to the 9 ounce range and pack smaller- but figured might as well make them with a heavier beat up shell as the bags have become a fun toy around the house too.

At my son's age- he's just getting big enough to get in and out of a hammock safely. So I made him a parallelogram hammock that came in about 4 ounces and packs quite small.
Gotta play with the suspension a bit- but I could probably get him a dynaglide rig and keep the tree to tree total at well under 8 ounces. Likely an 8 ounce tarp to match it.
kiddo hammock PL.jpgkiddo hammock PL2.jpg

So that would put him at:
12 ounce bag
8 ounce hammock
8 ounce tarp
12 ounce backpack (probably a home-made job with an easy way to attach it to my pack when he inevitably gets sick of carrying it.)
Then he could rig his own shelter and carry it at roughly 40 oz of baseweight.
A jacket, small water bottle, whistle, flashlight, and some toys should put him in the 5-8lb range at which point I'd cut off anything else.

He's really excited at the prospect- and even learning to sew himself- so why not?
kiddo sewing.jpg


As fer the two year old....
She will sleep with me just fine in a hammock- but still prefers Momma.
Momma prefers a tent.
Fer that- a Big agnes 2 man mountain spur- the aforementioned exped pad, and riding along in an osprey pack seems to be the best solution from 2-6. (My son and I did a trip with this rig at 5 and it worked out well).
kiddo pack.jpg

[charliethruhike]

My guy is 6 in November- but smallish (45" tall and 35lbs or so).
We are working on getting him a pack to carry- but as Caleb mentioned- just a simple Spidey man kids pack was plenty. If you wanted to push- I'd stick with 20% of bodyweight total.
But as you mentioned- it might be worth a trip to REI to try on a few of the smaller womens packs/running/hydration models and see what happens.

We are working on keeping things compact and SUL for the kids in general- since parents will carry it anyway- that seems to be the best option.
That said-
kiddo bags.jpg
Here are two kiddo bags I made for my son and daughter. Basic bag made with a bit heavier shell (HyperD 1.0) for abuse, and Primaloft Gold insulation.
They both weigh 12 ounces finished and pack to a cantaloupe size.
His is a quilt style that is 56 tall by 42 wide, with a simple sewn footbox (18").
Hers is the same quilt but folded up into a sleeping bag with a half zip. Roughly 42" tall by 56" circumference and a 24" zipper on one side. (she's 2 and a squirmer so we wanted her "trapped".)

If you're on the ground- that is a Exped Hyperlight Duomat they are on- which is tight for two adults but just right for a kiddo and a parent to share, and at 27 ounces is about the same as going with a large neo-air for me and a small neo-air for my son. This combo works a bit better and unlike the Neo-air- my son can blow up the Exped himself with the schnozzle bag that comes with it.

If you made these with a SUL shell (Membrane 10) they would drop to the 9 ounce range and pack smaller- but figured might as well make them with a heavier beat up shell as the bags have become a fun toy around the house too.

At my son's age- he's just getting big enough to get in and out of a hammock safely. So I made him a parallelogram hammock that came in about 4 ounces and packs quite small.
Gotta play with the suspension a bit- but I could probably get him a dynaglide rig and keep the tree to tree total at well under 8 ounces. Likely an 8 ounce tarp to match it.
kiddo hammock PL.jpgkiddo hammock PL2.jpg

So that would put him at:
12 ounce bag
8 ounce hammock
8 ounce tarp
12 ounce backpack (probably a home-made job with an easy way to attach it to my pack when he inevitably gets sick of carrying it.)
Then he could rig his own shelter and carry it at roughly 40 oz of baseweight.
A jacket, small water bottle, whistle, flashlight, and some toys should put him in the 5-8lb range at which point I'd cut off anything else.

He's really excited at the prospect- and even learning to sew himself- so why not?
kiddo sewing.jpg


As fer the two year old....
She will sleep with me just fine in a hammock- but still prefers Momma.
Momma prefers a tent.
Fer that- a Big agnes 2 man mountain spur- the aforementioned exped pad, and riding along in an osprey pack seems to be the best solution from 2-6. (My son and I did a trip with this rig at 5 and it worked out well).
kiddo pack.jpg

So if you've got the younger one in the pack, does there mother carry all your gear?

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[Just Bill]

So if you've got the younger one in the pack, does there mother carry all your gear?

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Not really... we're working on switching things up as we are growing.
But mommy's been pretty well out of the backpacking game for the past 3 years with pregnancy and our little one.

Basically my son and I went together from 18 months old or so to now with the Osprey carrier rig. (just the two of us)

I was able to get everything in there for the two of us, and still carry him when needed. Honestly I think that was a better plan overall as with no pack- he could walk most of the day himself.
I can give more details on the gear list if you like- but basically UL tent, pads for each of us, and separate bags and some careful thought on the packing and it all fit...(mostly)

I did have a stuff sack of consumables that I put in the carrier itself when he was walking, and then either hand carried or slung across my front to balance better. So that carried pretty well overall- and much better than trying to carry a pack, then him and his own pack when needed.

So me and the boy- all loaded up meant my load was between 35-70 lbs for a 3 night trip (wouldn't do more than that to start really).

What we are working on, is step 2 (with kiddo 2).
Basically my daughter will slide into the system I developed with my son...

My wife and son then will pair up- he can carry his own sleep system and a few things... my wife can carry her own stuff and a few group items (bigger pot that don't fit in the osprey).

Although we are working on some 1.5 person bridge hammocks based upon the duomat size... I like that best, but my wife is still not great at sleeping in one on her own, let alone with a kiddo.
So likely the boy and I will hang, the wife and daughter will share the Copper Spur for the next season or two.

So more or less what I am finding. 1 kiddo to one parent.

2-5 ish- carry them and their stuff (preferably Dad as with a seven pound pack, a bit of food and water, and a kiddo you're going to hit 70lbs from time to time no matter how careful or SUL you are).

5+ You can start giving them a sleep system (bulky but light) and teaching them to set it up. And either dad's load gets lighter, or in our case, Mom can start coming along and only end up with a few extra pounds of shared gear.

And my son will then share gear with my wife.