Hancock and Carrigain - early fall loop questions

[somers515]

Planning on a 3 day/2 night loop hike of the Hancocks and Carrigain in the White Mountains, NH in the early fall and looking for any advice/tips from the whiteblaze community! Current plan is to park at the Signal Ridge trailhead on Sawyer River Road and then walk up Sawyer River Road to the Sawyer River Trail to the Hancock Notch Trail.

1) Parking at Signal Ridge Trailhead safe for a couple of nights (assuming normal precautions)?
2) Walk up Sawyer River ROAD ok (I'm assuming people don't drive to fast on that dirt road)?
3) **Camping opportunities along Hancock Notch Trail between Sawyer River Trail and Cedar Brook Trail?** I have a single person tent (Tarptent Notch) and wondering if I'll be able to find a patch of flat ground off the trail. Tips on finding a previously used legal/stealth site on this stretch of trail? This is the question I'm wondering about the most.

Then planning on heading up the Hancock loop and once done over to the Wilderness Trail. I've read that it will be easy to find spots to camp along the Wilderness trail before reaching Stillwater junction and heading on the Desolation Trail to Mt. Carrigain and then back down to the parked car.

4) Any other general tips/advice on this proposed loop? I believe it's about 30 miles. I've read the comments on http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...Loop-hike-info. Thanks in advance!

[rafe]

The best camping on that loop is down along the river near the junction of Cedar Brook Trail and Wilderness trail. Bushwhack a bit off the trail toward the river. There are also dry sites along the Cedar Brook Trail. CBT is clearly an old logging road, very wide, easy grade, quick walking.

Hancock Notch trail doesn't get much traffic, as far as I could tell. It's gnarlier than it looks, and will give you a real wilderness feel. But forget about camping, there are no flat spots at all west of the jct. of Sawyer River trail (ie., back near your starting point.) For most of that trail the woods are dense, lush, wet, and impenetrable. The last few miles are relatively flat but marshy.

Be aware the "back" side of Carrigain is steep as get-out. Take your time. Once you're down in the hardwoods it's easy going again.

Most of this info based on doing the same loop eons ago. I revisited Carrigain last weekend. Lots of folks on the mountain. Trailhead parking was full. Great hike!

[rafe]

In the above when I said "last few miles" of Hancock trail, I assumed a counter clockwise loop. The only flat part of Hancock trail is the east end, closest to Sawyer River Rd. and the Signal Ridge Trail head. The rest of it is jungle.

[rafe]

Link to my journal from that hike... http://terrapinphoto.com/wp/gallerie...thru-journals/

[somers515]

Link to my journal from that hike... http://terrapinphoto.com/wp/gallerie...thru-journals/

Thanks Rafe! I read your replies and your journal entry. If there isn't any decent camping spots on Hancock Notch Trail then how would you (or anyone) break this down into a 3 day/2 night trip? I appreciate that there are some decent camping spots on the Wilderness trail on this loop but I'll need another spot along the loop or close to the loop. Maybe I could find a camping spot along the Sawyer River trail. According to AMC online it's a 28 mile loop not counting the road walk so I'd really like to break it down into 3 days/2nights if possible.

[rafe]

Camp almost anywhere on the Cedar Brook Trail, or on the western part of the Wilderness trail. I've seen people camp right at the junction of the Hancock Loop trail.

I did the loop in two days (got a ride for the last 3 miles) so I only had one night of camping. It's possible there are campsites on the Hancock Notch Trail that I missed.

There used to be a shelter a few miles west of Carrigain. I dunno if it's there any more, but even if it's gone, there might be camping in that vicinity.

[Slo-go'en]

Camping is forbidden within 1/4 mile of the wilderness trail. The wilderness trail, being an old narrow gage RR bed is the main artery into the area and is heavy used. About the only feasible place would be 1/4 mile or more along the Cedar brook trail. I'm pretty sure the area around the old Desolation shelter is off limits too. 200 feet from trails, water sources, ect are probably also in effect. Basically, they don't want you camping at anywhere but the designated sites.

[rickb]

Camping is forbidden within 1/4 mile of the wilderness trail. The wilderness trail, being an old narrow gage RR bed is the main artery into the area and is heavy used. About the only feasible place would be 1/4 mile or more along the Cedar brook trail. I'm pretty sure the area around the old Desolation shelter is off limits too. 200 feet from trails, water sources, ect are probably also in effect. Basically, they don't want you camping at anywhere but the designated sites.

Not exactly.

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[somers515]

Camping is forbidden within 1/4 mile of the wilderness trail. The wilderness trail, being an old narrow gage RR bed is the main artery into the area and is heavy used. About the only feasible place would be 1/4 mile or more along the Cedar brook trail. I'm pretty sure the area around the old Desolation shelter is off limits too. 200 feet from trails, water sources, ect are probably also in effect. Basically, they don't want you camping at anywhere but the designated sites.

Rickb beat me to it! I was writing up my reply basically saying: My AMC White Mountain Guide does say there is no camping within 200 feet of any trail in the Pemi wilderness but does not describe any trails in "section 3" that require you to be a 1/4 mile from the trail. The Guide does describe how camping is forbidden within 1/4 mile of the "East Branch of the Pemigewasset River from the Kancamagus Highway to Franconia Brook". Is that what you are thinking of? I believe the section of the Wilderness Trail I'll be on is east of Franconia Brook so I don't think that rule would apply on this loop.

Also there are no designated sites on the loop I described so I'm at a loss on what "they" want for me to do this loop. : ) I always try to make sure I'm camping in a legal spot - I'll tell you "they" don't always make it easy to figure it out!

Ok so thanks to everyone I'm feeling confident I can find a legal camp site on the north side of this loop but I'm not feeling confident about a spot along the southern side of this loop. From looking at the topo map the Sawyer River Trail looks very level just south of the Hancock Notch Trail. Anyone ever hiked that trail? I understand why they don't but I sure wish my AMC White Mountain Guide would give a line or two about possible level campsites in the 2-3 page description they provide about every trail. I don't live nearby so I can't advance scout and instead have to on rely on other sources to try to figure out what might be possible (and of course legal!). Thanks in advance.

[rafe]

I've camped with my nephews just off the CBT, not far from the river. It was just a spot where the trail flattened out and got wide. Room for a couple tents in any case. Been on that stretch a couple times now, never saw another soul, but it was long ago.

Or follow Black Brook Trail north for a while till you find a spot. (Ie. the trail leading up to Bond Cliffs.)

I presume the OP's loop doesn't include the part of the Hancock Notch Trail between the Kanc and the junction of the CBT. That part is very well traveled. It's the primary route to the Hancocks for peakbaggers and day hikers. It's never occurred to me to camp on that stretch. I wouldn't, in any case. Too much traffic and too close to the road.

[rickb]

I don't live nearby so I can't advance scout and instead have to on rely on other sources to try to figure out what might be possible (and of course legal!). Thanks in advance.

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I think this is the kind of trip where not having all the answers about where to camp in advance can add to the fun. You will pass by one of my very favorite camping spots, but I cannot tell you where it is -- a big part of the reason it is a favorite is because I discovered it for myself.

The thumbnail is just for quick reference for others in this thread whose maps are packed away, the trail names can be confusing. For the route you are taking, a topo map will provide just about all the guidance you need for picking a campsite. The options are many.

As for the camping rules and restrictions on this loop, the big one is that you need to camp 200' feet into the woods for that section that passes through the Pemi Wildeness. Sadly, many people ignore this regulation if they see a semi-established spot.

There is no formal blanket regulation that you camp 200' from water in the Pemi, however you may see some signs at the boundary suggesting (incorrectly) that is the case, and LNT ethics suggest that may be appropriate. I would recommend you use your own discretion and good judgement there. I personally like following a stream off trail a ways to get great privacy, and still have an easy way to find your way back to the trail.

Bottom line, trust your topo and have fun.

[peakbagger]

So many folks get "confused" with the 200 feet rule that the WMNF has two signs 200 feet apart so that they can visualize how far is 200 feet. With the exception of Hancock Notch Trail. the woods are somewhat open along most of the proposed route.

[rickb]

I know the spot!

It's not so easy to visualize 200' on a woods road, much less in the tangle you find off trail.

What I have been doing recently is visualizing a commercial trailer (the kind that hauls freight all around America).

Those trailers are nearly all either 53' or 48' in length.

Once you walk one "trailer length" into the woods, you note the spot--then walk another "trailer length". And so forth.

Works for me anyway.

[somers515]

I think this is the kind of trip where not having all the answers about where to camp in advance can add to the fun. You will pass by one of my very favorite camping spots, but I cannot tell you where it is -- a big part of the reason it is a favorite is because I discovered it for myself. . . .
Bottom line, trust your topo and have fun.

Thanks Rickb, not only for the thumbnail which shows the loop in question in visual form which I'm sure is helpful and for your encouragement. I actually feel a little like you do but my hiking partner prefers to have a little more of a plan - which is kind of the opposite of our normal personalities! I see on my topo map some possibilities along the Hancock trail, we'll just budget for extra time to look around for a legal decent spot to camp. If we fail and have to backtrack no worries. Thanks to whiteblaze I'll at least know a little of what to expect about that trail and that finding a spot will be difficult but not impossible.

[somers515]

Thank you all for the tips! Decided to park instead at the Overlook parking lot at the hairpin turn on the Kancamagus highway. Hiked up and over both Hancocks and then went down and turned right on Cedar Brook Trail and it's just like described above, you immediately feel as you are off on your own in the wilderness. It was great. We then made it to the Wilderness trail and turned right and were able to find a nice campsite. Ate our dinner overlooking the Pemi river before walking back to our campsite to sleep. For a few reasons decided not to continue on the loop toward Carrigain but just backtracked back to our car. Still another great overnight hike thanks to you guys on Whiteblaze. Much appreciated!