Homeless people living in national forests

[Tipi Walter]

All of my homeless years were done alcohol and drug free. Even meat free. In those years I had ample opportunity to meet "fellow" homeless types and you guys are right, many of them were whacked out or wanted to be whacked out on various chemicals. Some were violent, dangerous; most were emotional wrecks. Some were deviants. They had to be close in to a city and had no desire to seek the deep woods, not even the town treeline. A patch of woods behind the walmart was good enough, if that.

The Thoreauvian call of the wild didn't concern any of them, except at a most basis level in their reptilian brainstem. (That 4% of Neanderthal DNA which calls all of us outdoors). The freedom of sleeping out in Nature is also a drug and I was hooked, having traded in my booze and cigs and drugs for the experience.

[Maydog]

I had two friends that volunteered with a homeless ministry for a while. They would take sandwiches to places that homeless people congregated, and always asked them if they were ready to get off the streets. 90% answered "no". So they would give them a sandwich and offer them a ride to a shelter (a homeless shelter, not a backpacking shelter ). I can't imagine wanting to live on the streets, but then I'm not addicted or mentally ill (not much anyway).

[Starchild]

Struggles and all I do wonder how many of these people get to sit back and relax and realize they have it better than most people.

[Dogwood]

It's far far better to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness being content in all things being grateful for what one does have. It is when I(we) ignore this relying totally on my own understanding my own way of doing things I(we) put myself(ourselves) in greatest peril.

[Lnj]

It's far far better to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness being content in all things being grateful for what one does have. It is when I(we) ignore this relying totally on my own understanding my own way of doing things I(we) put myself(ourselves) in greatest peril.

Amen and amen..

[rocketsocks]

Amen and amen..

I O I O-its oft ta work we go!

[Lnj]

I O I O-its oft ta work we go!

LOL!! Correct.

[left52side]

The more and I do the daily grind of going to work for someone else, in order to earn money to turn around and give it to someone else for my mortgage, car payment, utilities and entertainment, makes me consider living off the land. But alas, my 401K needs padding and my Navy (reserve) retirement doesn't kick in for 12 more years. Urgh.....hi ho, hi ho, its off to work I go.

Great post.
I seem to have my happiest times in life when I had my backpack on in the middle of nowhere and all my possessions were attached to my back,whether it be hitchhiking hopping freight trains or walking in the woods for five months at A time,I always felt at such peace without the worries of monetary things as mentioned above.
I to have acclimated back into the "GRIND" of what most humans consider normal,go to work pay your bills and die life.
I moved back to Florida several years ago to be closer to my aging parents and not running all over the country,which in turn forced me to "acclimate" back into society so to say lol .
And honestly it is quite depressing even though I have managed to acquire A tiny home and live off grid almost 100 percent,it still feels like the same old nine to five,and every dime I put away towards my next thru hike brings back memories of the carefree life I lived not so long ago.
I have met several people in my small town here in Florida that are homeless by choice and are more comfortable living in the woods with minimal possessions and contrary to popular believe most are not alcoholics or drug addicts(in my case anyway).
None that I speak to on the regular basis are on food stamps or any government aid at all, They simply do odd jobs ,and live off what other folks waste(which is alot)...

[evyck da fleet]

There's definitely two distinct groups of homeless. I've seen older hikers on the AT that I thought could be homeless as opposed to retired, I'm sure not all were, living a very simple life moving along the trail. I also saw ones that were waiting at donation based hostels on the last day of the month so they could get their gov't assistance once it was direct deposited the following day to get drunk or high. In Hawaii, I saw people living out of their cars at campsites who had low paying jobs and preferred the campsites to renting. But I also saw the ex cons who sold drugs in town to get enough money so they could live illegally at the shelter along the Napali coast. In theory, a two week limit would work for the the group abiding by the laws. They would move to another site provided they could still get to work and return to the first site at a later time. The second group has trouble following rules to begin with and whatever punishment is handed out for their latest infraction is going to be much less than what they've received for their past misdeeds so good luck expecting their behavior to change. As we're finding out, National Parks are a great cheap alternative to running away to Alaska to try and escape your past.

[MuddyWaters]

Struggles and all I do wonder how many of these people get to sit back and relax and realize they have it better than most people.

I dont know about better than most, but many street people prefer the street to shelters. They often have a circle of friends, know the routine, how to get by, and can drink or whatever . When they go to a shelter they are given rules, sobriety, and must look for work.

I was with a buddy one day when guy begging came up to truck in walmart parking lot. Probably just a scammmer. But my friend was driving and listened to his line, then told him "Dude, you should be giving me money". "I owe $400,000 dollars.".

[Huli]

I am going to be retired when I start my AT/PCT/CDT hike. Won't own a house...damnit, I am going to be a negative statistic!

[cliffordbarnabus]

until you've walked a mile, or 2200 miles, in another man's, or woman's, shoes, you just don't know.

long hair, beard, smelling like a human, scruffy clothes, hole'y (or holy) shoes on a trail or in a city or a small town = you don't know.

nor, should you assume.

[Tipi Walter]

Great post.
I seem to have my happiest times in life when I had my backpack on in the middle of nowhere and all my possessions were attached to my back,whether it be hitchhiking hopping freight trains or walking in the woods for five months at A time,I always felt at such peace without the worries of monetary things as mentioned above.
I to have acclimated back into the "GRIND" of what most humans consider normal,go to work pay your bills and die life.
I moved back to Florida several years ago to be closer to my aging parents and not running all over the country,which in turn forced me to "acclimate" back into society so to say lol .

And honestly it is quite depressing even though I have managed to acquire A tiny home and live off grid almost 100 percent,it still feels like the same old nine to five,and every dime I put away towards my next thru hike brings back memories of the carefree life I lived not so long ago.

You hit the nail on the head. I exactly relate to your first quote and it doesn't take an einstein to figure it out. As I always like to say: "When you're indoors you're a failure, When you're outdoors you're a success." This to me sums up the quest for the wild---and living outdoors. Some people, many people, just don't get it. They never have their John Muir Moment.

America the Beautiful is all about living in what's left of the Beautiful and what's left of the backcountry. Sleeping under a tree, drinking water out of a creek, climbing a mountain in the snow with a pack and enough food for 3 weeks---This is who we are and a gift from the North American continent. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Dogwood]

....I seem to have my happiest times in life when I had my backpack on in the middle of nowhere and all my possessions were attached to my back,whether it be hitchhiking hopping freight trains or walking in the woods for five months at A time,I always felt at such peace without the worries of monetary things as mentioned above.
I to have acclimated back into the "GRIND" of what most humans consider normal,go to work pay your bills and die life.
I moved back to Florida several years ago to be closer to my aging parents and not running all over the country,which in turn forced me to "acclimate" back into society so to say lol .
And honestly it is quite depressing even though I have managed to acquire A tiny home and live off grid almost 100 percent,it still feels like the same old nine to five,and every dime I put away towards my next thru hike brings back memories of the carefree life I lived not so long ago.
I have met several people in my small town here in Florida that are homeless by choice and are more comfortable living in the woods with minimal possessions and contrary to popular believe most are not alcoholics or drug addicts(in my case anyway).
None that I speak to on the regular basis are on food stamps or any government aid at all, They simply do odd jobs ,and live off what other folks waste(which is alot)...

You hit the nail on the head. I exactly relate to your first quote and it doesn't take an einstein to figure it out. As I always like to say: "When you're indoors you're a failure, When you're outdoors you're a success." This to me sums up the quest for the wild---and living outdoors. Some people, many people, just don't get it. They never have their John Muir Moment.

America the Beautiful is all about living in what's left of the Beautiful and what's left of the backcountry. Sleeping under a tree, drinking water out of a creek, climbing a mountain in the snow with a pack and enough food for 3 weeks---This is who we are and a gift from the North American continent. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Neither of you are in some exclusive category who feel this way but there's a LEGAL way to do it!

Again, 'there is also a extremely high level of criminal behavior like theft in the homeless community. They not only steal from businesses but also from each other. Businesses can have substantial losses due to theft in

homeless areas. Most do not want to or say they can't work. Most do not want to get ahead by sweat of their own brow. Of course, they are fine when they get ahead material or otherwise at the expense of others.'

Invariably, living as an impoverished homeless person whether a drug addict or not, REMEMBERING ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, AND PRESCRIBED PHARMACEUTICALS ARE DRUGS TOO, one will be faced with ignoring their behavior leading to self serving self absorbed "free for me" criminal acts. Living off the land can easily ignore the broader aspect of "living off others."

Train or freight hopping is more stressful, time consuming, life threatening, and illegal than most would say experiencing a 9 to 5 job. It further indoctrinates one into believing a criminal mindset is acceptable.

[turtle fast]

I've run into the same situation here in the Midwest. A lot of the homeless are drug/alcohol dependent. I had a discussion with a psychologist who stated that many of the drug dependent are self medicating. It was sad that most of those living the drug/alcohol lifestyle didn't even realize it. To them, it's their lifestyle...it's what they do. I have been contemplating if we tweaked the laws and made it easier and more streamlined for addicts to be involuntary committed to a longer term drug/alcohol/ mental health programs if it would be feasible/work.

[Dogwood]

The more and I do the daily grind of going to work for someone else, in order to earn money to turn around and give it to someone else for my mortgage, car payment, utilities and entertainment, makes me consider living off the land. But alas, my 401K needs padding and my Navy (reserve) retirement doesn't kick in for 12 more years. Urgh.....hi ho, hi ho, its off to work I go.

No matter what anyone says here, it is an over romanticized delusion to think "living off the land" or being homeless or being impoverished or living on the streets is about a carefree existence!

You might want to rethink your assumption. The other side of the fence is not always greener. You are working for access and ownership to a home, automobile, arguably mobility, establishing credit, security for you and your loved ones, honoring your word, living up to commitments, and being responsible for yourself and a wider whole without being exposed to the underbelly world of being homeless and impoverished all while adding to your country and society, not living off it. Could there be possible cons to all that, sure? But at least take an honest inventory of what you should be grateful of before throwing it away for some idealized lifestyle.

Even for idealized Dick Proenneke his simple frugal hermit like - LEGALLY in the day - "living off the land" lifestyle demanded constant work. He lived by the sweat of his own brow not on the shoulders of others in society as a way of life. He paid his own way. Mr Proenneke also had a very good consideration of his impact on a greater ecology than himself. He closely connected with and was considerate of both flora and fauna. Where he lived didn't look like a junkyard. He wasn't a drug addict. He wasn't criminally minded or trend towards illegal activities. These overall traits are not evident in the majority of the homeless impoverished street communities nor by those who are non indigenous squatters on National Forest lands.

[Tipi Walter]

I've run into the same situation here in the Midwest. A lot of the homeless are drug/alcohol dependent. I had a discussion with a psychologist who stated that many of the drug dependent are self medicating. It was sad that most of those living the drug/alcohol lifestyle didn't even realize it. To them, it's their lifestyle...it's what they do. I have been contemplating if we tweaked the laws and made it easier and more streamlined for addicts to be involuntary committed to a longer term drug/alcohol/ mental health programs if it would be feasible/work.

Many university campuses are Alcohol Binge Centers encouraged I suppose by the board of regents etc. When talking about drug abuse and the war on drugs, it must be remembered that alcohol is the biggest problem with the most health complications, and yet it's widely promoted in our society. You could say the homeless are drug and alcohol dependent, but then isn't our whole culture? Many people who sneer at the drunk or drugged homeless while driving past are themselves hooked on booze and ambien and mood stabilizers. And then there's television addiction and the dreaded couch potato syndrome---an electronic pastime most homeless don't do.

[Tipi Walter]

No matter what anyone says here, it is an over romanticized delusion to think "living off the land" or being homeless or being impoverished or living on the streets is about a carefree existence!

You might want to rethink your assumption.

The other side of the fence is not always greener. You are working for access and ownership to a home, automobile, arguably mobility, establishing credit, security for you and your loved ones, honoring your word, living up to commitments, and being responsible for yourself and a wider whole without being exposed to the underbelly world of being homeless and impoverished all while adding to your country and society, not living off it. Could there be possible cons to all that, sure? But at least take an honest inventory of what you should be grateful of before throwing it away for some idealized lifestyle.

It's not an assumption. The happiest people I've seen in the last 10 years were those backpacking the AT. Why? Because they were momentarily carefree. Dogwood, you may want to rethink your assumption that living outdoors is an overly romanticized delusion. I lived in a tipi on a North Carolina ridgetop for 21 years and can resolutely say you are wrong, and for the last 16 years I have spent more time out backpacking than indoors. During my tipi years I felt carefree, heck I was carefree. I worked minimally, I had no bills, no running water, no electricity and I hiked and backpacked nearly every day hauling stuff in and out on my one mile trail. I gathered and cut and split wood and I hauled water---what life is all about.

Your third quote sounds exactly what my father said 40 years ago when he found out I left college and started living out of a pack and living in a tipi. It blows people's minds. Living such a lifestyle has been blowing people's minds since 1492.

What I am most grateful for is unbroken wilderness, clean water, mountain winds and fierce snowstorms. Take these away and you've taken away America the Beautiful. And remember, humans are animals and mammals and near relatives to neanderthals. We've been living in nature as modern humans for the last 150,00 to 200,000 years. These last years of modernity and away from nature are a fluke.

You say, "No matter what anyone says here" and so I surmise you can't tolerate to be refuted about actual examples of people who have lived outdoors for long periods of time. A vast majority of Americans do not want to live in a Tipi or a tent or a wall tent or hike the AT 10 times in a row (despite their cro magnon roots), but there are that do and have done so and will continue to do so.

My only advice to the newb nature boys out there is to leave the sprawl and the development and the gotcha culture and head to the last big open country left, wherever you can find it. Sleep with the prettiest Woman in the world, Miss Nature.

[Dogwood]

PLEASE, don't misinterpret me out of context. I DID NOT SAY NOR DID I IMPLY "living outdoors is an overly romanticized delusion." YOU are quoting me OUT OF CONTEXT by NOT completing my entire thought! I SAID, and my ENTIRE THOUGHT is, "it is an over romanticized delusion to think "living off the land" or being homeless or being impoverished or living on the streets is about a carefree existence!
You prove my point, if my point would have been taken in context, by saying, "I hiked and backpacked nearly every day hauling stuff in and out on my one mile trail. I gathered and cut and split wood and I hauled water..."

If you take the time to consider my train of thought in context with my other posts on this thread you would also realized why I said this "neither of you are in some exclusive category who feel this way but there's a LEGAL way to do it!" Do you and left52 side think you are part of an exclusive club where no one knows how you feel about connecting with Nature, living for months, perhaps even yrs, with their entire possessions on their back, or perhaps even immerses themselves in the feelings the two of you shared that only get out for an weekend or day hike.

[Uriah]

I fully understand Dogwood's dogma, as security and comfort persuade most our decisions in modern life. Whether the grass is greener elsewhere, it's imperative we water our own.

When I first moved into the woods, I did so for no other reason than to gain more financial security. I hadn't even thought about possible repercussions or that I might struggle as much as I did during those long, cold winter nights. I simply saw a window of opportunity, one that would enable me to save almost everything I made and put it toward the future, a future I now enjoy immensely. I may have been an anomaly compared to others living around me, whether they were bedding down inside their over-sized McMansions or cocooned within their tepees or tents or cars. (Nederland plays host to all types.) But it mattered not. I was focused on a goal and any inconveniences incurred paled in comparison to achieving that goal.

Interestingly, the greatest side effect was that I soon fell in absolute love with Mother Nature, and I came to prefer the manner in which I lived, which is why I continue doing so to this day. Unlike most humans (homeless or otherwise), I didn't treat Mother Nature like a MILF, but rather someone far more important and beautiful. She gained my utmost respect and I vowed I'd never let her down.

But she taught me that she was much stronger than that!

Living that much closer to her, I learned that the indifference she harbored toward me and all other humans was palpable! She promised that she would recover, no matter the stress we deformed apes attempt to inflict. And I take great solace in knowing that. All we humans are doing is destroying our own temporary habitat, much like a parasite might. But unlike so many parasites, our host will not be destroyed by us. We're not that powerful! She will long outlast us humans, as she runs on a much grander clock, and we will only go to destroy ourselves and some other species along the way. I feel more for those helpless species than I do for any of us, and that includes the homeless.