Homeless people living in national forests

[One Half]

When we attempt to thru in a few years my husband and I will be technically homeless. Once our son is on his own my husband is taking a "hiatus" from work and we will end our lease and move all our possessions into storage. Still haven't figured out all the details with "legal address" etc but we will.

[Dogwood]

No biggie the statistic you mentioned was faulted. When a small county seat in the middle of Chester County houses 90 men and 15 women each night many are turned away and have to stay at a nearby church I am familiar with.

Perhaps this would enlighten you, but it too is suspect to me.

CLICK

Indeed another highly suspect statistic based on dubious accounting procedures. The actual homeless count will be higher based on redefining who is homeless, when the accounting takes place, different accounting procedures, etc. Another example is the true rate of unemployment which is higher perhaps as much as double as it currently is reported. Redefine how the unemployed rate is calculated and voila we have a new number that makes the current administration look like they are doing better than they are.

[SkeeterPee]

I work some with the homeless in the winter when it gets cold community churches open up and house them overnight with a warm dinner and breakfast. I would say almost all have some drug or alcohol problem but many are in recovery. You meet a few who are temporarily homeless and you know they are working and will be back in a house soon. Others have really no interest in not being homeless. They tell me they never miss a meal. Several do have tents so if the weather is not horrible they may come in and eat and leave after dinner. Almost all just want a place to sleep for the night and not be bothered. They are most bothered by the ones that get high or drunk and cause problems.

I doubt many homeless are staying along the trail except were it is close to a town/city. As someone said they are looking for an easy meal, quick cash paying job, and unfortunately drugs/alcohol.

[Lnj]

This has been an interesting discussion. I admire the "Thoreau" homeless and sometimes fantasize about being one of them. A lifelong dream of mine has been to be a hermit. The other type of homeless… not so much.

If you are single and unattached, it is a seductive lifestyle. But it begins to break down if you want to have a family and raise kids. To inflict a nonstandard lifestyle on kids and possibly limit their opportunities is not cool IMHO. The Thoreau lifestyle is somewhat selfish.

For me, I can drop out of the "normal" lifestyle and adopt the ways of the homeless. This is called camping. It is hard to go the other way. If you commit to the Thoreau life, you are all in. It would be difficult to break out of. If medical issues crop up, or other financial issues, or if you simply get tired of living that way, it would be difficult to "drop back in" to normal society.

I would love to win the lottery and then live the simple life! It would be the best of both worlds.

YES! All of this....

[Hosh]

This country with it's public and private sector programs and policies makes being "homeless" pretty comfortable. A free meal, bed, phone, clothing, transportation can be had with little effort. There are very limited consequences to the recipients who rarely have to do anything in exchange.

The most tragic examples are the homeless families on tough times, between jobs, needing a helping hand or a break to get back on level footing.

I think a common thread among the larger population is a genuine disdain, maybe even hatred of authority. They don't want to be told what to do, when to do it, and find keeping job commitments a PIA.

[Uriah]

Have you ever seen It's a Wonderful Life? For those who haven't it's a story about a man portrayed by the great Jimmy Stewart who thought just such thing. He found out that every action he took and every action he didn't take, because he wasn't there, he was given a gift to see what the Universe would be like if he hadn't been born; he set into motion a whole series of events with consequences unknown to him by being born and every action he took. No matter how famous or known or influential each of us think we are or are not every action we take and every action not taken has profound far reaching effects that we may never entirely know about. Each individual action is like a stone thrown into the surface of a large pond that ripples far to the edge of the pond where we even can't currently see. Every one's LIFE has great impact, meaning, and purpose. And we each can choose how we will live and act. This extends to all life not just humanity.

I fear I'm a little too late in choosing the best birth date, but I've heard of the movie and of Jimmy Stewart, mostly, ironically enough, because he was from the same small town as Edward Abbey...Indiana, Pennsylvania. (Few residents there have even heard of Cactus Ed!) I'll see if our local library has the film, since it sounds like there's something to glean from it.

Your excellent summary of the film is reminiscent of a Muir quote: "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe."

It's a tough sentiment to dispute and I'd sound like an utter idiot arguing with Muir, and not just because he's long been dead.

But I can't escape the feeling that, except perhaps for our immediate circle of kith and kin, none of us matter all that much (I'm a workable example here), just as the trophy animal shot by the hunter doesn't matter (to him), or the acres of forest being demolished each moment don't matter (to most humans). Muir mattered to me and the open lands we enjoy today (including the AT) were a direct result of his intelligence, energy, connections, persuasiveness, and use of time.

Humanity may find in hindsight that the movie and Muir were right...that ALL matter matters (or mattered)! But by then it may be too late. Our way of life today will be a new way of life tomorrow ("change is inevitable!" cry the fools, as if man"made" destruction itself cannot be avoided), as all those Universal hitches are being unhitched. With more of us crowding one another every day, our individual significance decreases, while our collective impact extends, both farther in geographic reach (and effect), and into the future.

Regardless, it's a good time to be alive (aren't they all?), especially if we can grasp that our time is brief and ultimately without meaning. We can try to convince ourselves we are so self-important and have meaning (i.e., purpose), but on the whole, our legacy to future generations (of animals and plants and humans and all else) won't be a positive one.

[Tipi Walter]

Humanity may find in hindsight that the movie and Muir were right...that ALL matter matters (or mattered)! But by then it may be too late.

I take comfort in the idea that the deity or God or the creator or Mother Nature or whoever or whatever loves wilderness. Just look around the solar system and the galaxy and the universe. The place is so wild and so vast that puny ignorant Man will NEVER foul or clearcut or besmirch a hundred-trillion billioneth of it, if that.

The earth was once just as wild and will return to pristine wilderness after another big meteor strike or another ice age. Apparently modern humans hate wilderness---the skies are filled with the nonstop roar of jet traffic---meanwhile the vast universe is nothing but wilderness. How wild is it? People equate Mt Everest to being wild as humans have a difficult time living on its summit. So too the universe. Go backpacking on the surface of the sun and see how long you last. Go to Mars and endure the cold nights and hot days. You won't find walmart parking lots on the surface of Jupiter. So God must love wilderness. And to stick with the Creator's plan we humans should love wilderness too.

[Uriah]

I take comfort in the idea that the deity or God or the creator or Mother Nature or whoever or whatever loves wilderness. Just look around the solar system and the galaxy and the universe. The place is so wild and so vast that puny ignorant Man will NEVER foul or clearcut or besmirch a hundred-trillion billioneth of it, if that.

The earth was once just as wild and will return to pristine wilderness after another big meteor strike or another ice age. Apparently modern humans hate wilderness---the skies are filled with the nonstop roar of jet traffic---meanwhile the vast universe is nothing but wilderness. How wild is it? People equate Mt Everest to being wild as humans have a difficult time living on its summit. So too the universe. Go backpacking on the surface of the sun and see how long you last. Go to Mars and endure the cold nights and hot days. You won't find walmart parking lots on the surface of Jupiter. So God must love wilderness. And to stick with the Creator's plan we humans should love wilderness too.

Tipi,
You and I see eye-to-eye on this and so many other matters, and you're one of the main reasons I stick around on this forum, along with a few other thinker-folks. One grows tired of the endless discussions on gear, or those overly succinct responses that entail or engender little thought, or that add little, if anything, to the discussion. I've read a good number of your journals and will continue to do; it helps me maintain at lease some faith in humanity!

[rocketsocks]

he's terrible

Why don't you go play in truck traffic

[Dogwood]

"And to stick with the Creator's plan we humans should love wilderness too."

Here is where we are in total agreement as devoted Naturalists, Ecologists, Environmentalists, wilderness lovers, and Conservationists.

Insight that I know in my heart of hearts, that I can feel resonating in my soul,

Enjoy, by Aldo Leopold:

“One of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Much of the damage inflicted on land is quite invisible to laymen. An ecologist must either harden his shell and make believe that the consequences of science are none of his business, or he must be the doctor who sees the marks of death in a community that believes itself well and does not want to be told otherwise.”

“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”

“To those devoid of imagination a blank place on the map is a useless waste; to others, the most valuable part.”

“The modern dogma is comfort at any cost.”

“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?”

“Civilization has so cluttered this elemental man-earth relationship with gadgets and middlemen that awareness of it is growing dim. We fancy that industry supports us, forgetting what supports industry.”

“Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken for granted until progress began to do away with them. Now we face the question whether a still higher 'standard of living' is worth its cost in things natural, wild and free. For us of the minority, the opportunity to see geese is more important than television.”

“We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes – something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.”

“We abuse land because we see it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.”

[Dogwood]

This is another topic though perhaps more accurately a sub topic to the OP.

[Lone Wolf]

Why don't you go play in truck traffic

i do daily. dylan still is terrible

[Venchka]

When we attempt to thru in a few years my husband and I will be technically homeless. Once our son is on his own my husband is taking a "hiatus" from work and we will end our lease and move all our possessions into storage. Still haven't figured out all the details with "legal address" etc but we will.

There are mail services that cater to full time RV dwellers who are also effectively homeless.
Or use your son's address.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pilgrimskywheel]

I'm not homeless - I'm houseless. Sing the national anthem one time for me - what's the last line again?

[johnnybgood]

he's terrible

dylan still is terrible

Your restraint is truly admirable.

[Dogwood]

i do daily. dylan still is terrible

A Wolf in Traffic...sounds like the title off a Dylan song.

[Venchka]

A Wolf in Traffic...sounds like the title off a Dylan song.

Nope. Not Dylan.
More like Warren Zevon.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daddytwosticks]

Nope. Not Dylan.
More like Warren Zevon.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...awoooooooo, lone wolves of Damascus....

[Dogwood]

he he

Warren Zevon was actually really cool. I worked security at one of his concerts and got to hang out with him backstage after the concert for a couple of hrs. awooooohhh those were the days.

[Venchka]

...awoooooooo, lone wolves of Damascus....

You got it.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk