Homeless people living in national forests
August 22, 2016 issue, New York Times:
http://nyti.ms/2buAQWY
They used to be called "pioneers."
Before that, they were just people living there. Then someone started calling them indians or savages or native peoples or whatever other label.Originally Posted by dudeijuststarted
They used to be called "pioneers."
seems like this press makes it harder for trail head logistics hitch hikers! sorry, I know, first world problem...
Lazarus
Although I somehow doubt most homeless people choose to live in such a manner (not manor!), I made it a choice to live this way. Each year I watched more and more people doing so, whether by choice or circumstance. Public lands (Forest Service, BLM) enable it (for brief stints, anyway: two weeks in one place, generally), and tough times economically often force it. I camped and lived near Nederland and Ward for three years, both in summer and winter, taking the bus down to, and working in Boulder, saving most my income. Back then there were dozens of others doing this, men and women; I'd imagine there are more now. But there seems to be a distinct line between those trying to save money and those who don't, or won't, work. Mine existence was a Thoreau-like choice and it allowed for an early retirement and lots of travel, both of which I preferred over the nightmare that is the American Dream.
Restricting such encampment areas only forces people elsewhere. It certainly doesn't solve the problem, if indeed it is a problem. But they've done this in plenty of areas: Moab's surrounding BLM land, Estes Park (CO), Bend, OR, and elsewhere. Still, with just a ranger or two assigned to in some cases millions of acres, their job is futile and the numbers are only going to grow.
This was a very interesting post. Thanks Uriah.
I just wish some of these people weren't so trashy. Not only litter, but human feces, needles and all kinds of crap. Colorado has become a mecca for wanderers and it's even worse since the legal pot laws were passed.
I agree. But we shouldn't forget that the massive amounts of trash we generate as a society also goes somewhere. (Elsewhere!) It just tends to be a little more organized and a little less visible. Waste management, they call the industry!
Flush your toilet and voila...your poop is gone! Throw your junk in the waste bin and it's gone for good!
When I see human waste in the woods or here in the desert, be it feces or toilet paper or old camping stuff left behind, it doesn't make me think so much of the individual(s) who left it there, but that we're all just as responsible for generating it and having it shipped elsewhere, out of our life! The size of the municipal garbage bins lining any street on "garbage day" have only gotten bigger in the past few decades, so the problem itself is also only going to.
It's a pretty safe bet that almost every one of us would (and does) generate more garbage/waste/pollution/fumes when we're within society than we would on its fringes. It's all just concealed a little better.
While I agree on irresponsibility is irresponsibility no matter where it happens in regard to waste aggregation and I agree with you on the wasteful, consumption, and consumer driven U.S., AND ELSEWHERE, cultures modern day waste management is absolutely not just about removing it from one location and hiding it another location. Everything from electronics to, metals, plastics, wood, glass, etc can be used again. Even some among the homeless know this and are some of the moss avid Al can recyclers. Some(many?) I've spoken to in Hawaii choose to make this their job their purpose rather than resorting to stealing. Unfortunately many also use it to support drug habits. Leaving a bunch of human detritus in the woods as result of being homeless is no excuse for bagging up waste, AND AT LEAST spent food packaging and alcohol, throwing it in a dumpster. I've seen too many homeless people living in their own waste UNNECESSARILY. You can't excuse your own questionable behaviors by referring to the questionable behaviors of society and its ills. AGAIN, this comes down to what personal responsibility do people exhibit. WHAT level of personal responsibility do homeless communities exhibit???
This is what often irks many that are not homeless and more than a few, as seen here on this thread, that were homeless.
There is option for those who want to be legit and that's taking advantage of volunteering opportunities in many national parks and forests (I also expect other federal properties). I run into numerous folks in the whites that do some minimal volunteering in exchange for free camping spots. I met one person who drives around in a federal supplied pickup and checks the toilet paper dispensers in the trailhead parking lots in exchange for free season long camping. In other more remote campgrounds there are campground hosts who stay for free in exchange for managing the site, mostly meeting campers and keeping the outhouses swept. The FS is now setting up tables at popular hiking trailheads meeting and greeting hikers to make sure they have the right gear. Most of the folks running these are volunteers who get free camping for four hour per day commitment. Many of the folks I run into are from all over the US and do this as cheap way to see the country.
On the other hand I expect that if someone has substance abuse issues and are unable/unwilling to live up to commitments in exchange for a legit camp spot they probably aren't interested in the legit way and would rather just hide out in the woods. Unfortunately, many of the folks living like this tend to be less than environmentally conscious, generally the method of trash disposal is the woods and the bucket used as toilet in the article gets dumped on the ground. I haven't been out west but have encountered a few spots out in my area abandoned by transients and they can leave quite a blight. Its not a much of an issue year round I expect in northern NH as the cold weather and black fly season would drive most folks out of the woods.
The more and I do the daily grind of going to work for someone else, in order to earn money to turn around and give it to someone else for my mortgage, car payment, utilities and entertainment, makes me consider living off the land. But alas, my 401K needs padding and my Navy (reserve) retirement doesn't kick in for 12 more years. Urgh.....hi ho, hi ho, its off to work I go.
Good post. "Thoreau-like Choice" explains it all. I spent 7 years homeless in the North Carolina mountains between 1980-87 but in fact I had excellent gear and managed to stealth camp all thru the County. Wherever I went I camped, including various long hitchhiking trips. I eventually "got legal" and built a tipi on 40 acres of private land with permission and didn't have to sleep behind cemetery tombstones or behind churches or in treelines anymore. The one mile trail I cut up to my tipi was outstanding.
But it takes all kinds to ruin it. People rolling in campers and RVs for example. We had one guy here in Monroe Cty TN who logged an acre and built a log cabin and was caught and banned from the national forest for life I guess.
Then there are the Pickup Hobos who drive from car camping spot to spot in their pickup trucks and live this way from retirement check to check. They keep moving every two weeks and it's a good system if you can't walk and like to be near other car campers living in their "mud homes".
One of the incentives I had back in 1980 to get some gear and live outside permanently was a miscreant landlord who warned me to get out of my apartment---I did not---and then he torched the house as an arson to get insurance money. I went to the court case as a witness and he got nothing. Should've got jail time.
Anyway, this event propelled me mercifully into the outdoors and under Miss Nature's sky. There's no better place to live.
Playing street music during my homeless years, 1981.
Last edited by Tipi Walter; 10-10-2016 at 16:41.
nice pack.Good post. "Thoreau-like Choice" explains it all. I spent 7 years homeless in the North Carolina mountains between 1980-87 but in fact I had excellent gear and managed to stealth camp all thru the County. Wherever I went I camped, including various long hitchhiking trips. I eventually "got legal" and built a tipi on 40 acres of private land with permission and didn't have to sleep behind cemetery tombstones or behind churches or in treelines anymore. The one mile trail I cut up to my tipi was outstanding.
But it takes all kinds to ruin it. People rolling in campers and RVs for example. We had one guy here in Monroe Cty TN who logged an acre and built a log cabin and was caught and banned from the national forest for life I guess.
Then there are the Pickup Hobos who drive from car camping spot to spot in their pickup trucks and live this way from retirement check to check. They keep moving every two weeks and it's a good system if you can't walk and like to be near other car campers living in their "mud homes".
One of the incentives I had back in 1980 to get some gear and live outside permanently was a miscreant landlord who warned me to get out of my apartment---I did not---and then he torched the house as an arson to get insurance money. I went to the court case as a witness and he got nothing. Should've got jail time.
Anyway, this event propelled me mercifully into the outdoors and under Miss Nature's sky. There's no better place to live.
Playing street music during my homeless years, 1981.
Thank ye. It's my old warhorse North Face pack---seen here in action but from someone else's collection---(I still have the old faded thing and it's hanging up on a peg in the garage. It was used nonstop for 22 years until replaced by various internal frames).
Check out the Mr. Money Mustache blog if you haven't already. Based on how you phrased your post I think you might find him helpful. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/...one-blog-post/
AT Flip Flop (HF to ME, HF to GA) Thru Hike 2023; LT End-to-Ender 2017; NH 48/48 2015-2021; 21 of 159usForests.com
No matter what anyone says here, it is an over romanticized delusion to think "living off the land" or being homeless or being impoverished or living on the streets is about a carefree existence!
You might want to rethink your assumption. The other side of the fence is not always greener. You are working for access and ownership to a home, automobile, arguably mobility, establishing credit, security for you and your loved ones, honoring your word, living up to commitments, and being responsible for yourself and a wider whole without being exposed to the underbelly world of being homeless and impoverished all while adding to your country and society, not living off it. Could there be possible cons to all that, sure? But at least take an honest inventory of what you should be grateful of before throwing it away for some idealized lifestyle.
Even for idealized Dick Proenneke his simple frugal hermit like - LEGALLY in the day - "living off the land" lifestyle demanded constant work. He lived by the sweat of his own brow not on the shoulders of others in society as a way of life. He paid his own way. Mr Proenneke also had a very good consideration of his impact on a greater ecology than himself. He closely connected with and was considerate of both flora and fauna. Where he lived didn't look like a junkyard. He wasn't a drug addict. He wasn't criminally minded or trend towards illegal activities. These overall traits are not evident in the majority of the homeless impoverished street communities nor by those who are non indigenous squatters on National Forest lands.
It's not an assumption. The happiest people I've seen in the last 10 years were those backpacking the AT. Why? Because they were momentarily carefree. Dogwood, you may want to rethink your assumption that living outdoors is an overly romanticized delusion. I lived in a tipi on a North Carolina ridgetop for 21 years and can resolutely say you are wrong, and for the last 16 years I have spent more time out backpacking than indoors. During my tipi years I felt carefree, heck I was carefree. I worked minimally, I had no bills, no running water, no electricity and I hiked and backpacked nearly every day hauling stuff in and out on my one mile trail. I gathered and cut and split wood and I hauled water---what life is all about.
Your third quote sounds exactly what my father said 40 years ago when he found out I left college and started living out of a pack and living in a tipi. It blows people's minds. Living such a lifestyle has been blowing people's minds since 1492.
What I am most grateful for is unbroken wilderness, clean water, mountain winds and fierce snowstorms. Take these away and you've taken away America the Beautiful. And remember, humans are animals and mammals and near relatives to neanderthals. We've been living in nature as modern humans for the last 150,00 to 200,000 years. These last years of modernity and away from nature are a fluke.
You say, "No matter what anyone says here" and so I surmise you can't tolerate to be refuted about actual examples of people who have lived outdoors for long periods of time. A vast majority of Americans do not want to live in a Tipi or a tent or a wall tent or hike the AT 10 times in a row (despite their cro magnon roots), but there are that do and have done so and will continue to do so.
My only advice to the newb nature boys out there is to leave the sprawl and the development and the gotcha culture and head to the last big open country left, wherever you can find it. Sleep with the prettiest Woman in the world, Miss Nature.
Last edited by Tipi Walter; 10-12-2016 at 13:09.
I fully understand Dogwood's dogma, as security and comfort persuade most our decisions in modern life. Whether the grass is greener elsewhere, it's imperative we water our own.
When I first moved into the woods, I did so for no other reason than to gain more financial security. I hadn't even thought about possible repercussions or that I might struggle as much as I did during those long, cold winter nights. I simply saw a window of opportunity, one that would enable me to save almost everything I made and put it toward the future, a future I now enjoy immensely. I may have been an anomaly compared to others living around me, whether they were bedding down inside their over-sized McMansions or cocooned within their tepees or tents or cars. (Nederland plays host to all types.) But it mattered not. I was focused on a goal and any inconveniences incurred paled in comparison to achieving that goal.
Interestingly, the greatest side effect was that I soon fell in absolute love with Mother Nature, and I came to prefer the manner in which I lived, which is why I continue doing so to this day. Unlike most humans (homeless or otherwise), I didn't treat Mother Nature like a MILF, but rather someone far more important and beautiful. She gained my utmost respect and I vowed I'd never let her down.
But she taught me that she was much stronger than that!
Living that much closer to her, I learned that the indifference she harbored toward me and all other humans was palpable! She promised that she would recover, no matter the stress we deformed apes attempt to inflict. And I take great solace in knowing that. All we humans are doing is destroying our own temporary habitat, much like a parasite might. But unlike so many parasites, our host will not be destroyed by us. We're not that powerful! She will long outlast us humans, as she runs on a much grander clock, and we will only go to destroy ourselves and some other species along the way. I feel more for those helpless species than I do for any of us, and that includes the homeless.
Last edited by Uriah; 10-12-2016 at 14:16.
We think it's bad with 7.3 billion of us, wait until we reach 12 billion etc. America is projected to be around 450 million by 2050, I guess our goal is to have over a billion consumers like China. Kiss what's left of wilderness goodbye.
A sad picture for sure, but all the more reason to enjoy it now.
It's interesting that so many of us do head out to enjoy the wild lands, but yet refrain from defending them. I'm certainly guilty of this, although I justify my behavior because I have no tie to the future, be it 2050 or even a little sooner. I'm happy to have been born when I was, with all the freedom and some of the land upon which to go get lost and ponder life's big mysteries.
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