Beef jerky, tuna in foil packets, salami – in bear country, sleeping with Opsak?

[DuneElliot]

On North Manitou Island before you can get you backcountry permit you have to listen to the park ranger's micro bear (i.e. chipmunk) lecture. A PCT hang for chipmunks can be a lot lower.

The places I backpack are not known for any bear issues although I do carry bear spray. I worry way more about the little critters getting to my food...a dog is good for that.

[Deacon]

I never saw anyone hang food on the LT section. It was sort of the line when no one worried about bears anymore.Most just hung in the shelter on critter hang or slept with it. In fact people not even staying in the shelter hung their food in the shelter. Never heard of any problems and never heard of any other hikers seeing a bear.

I slept with food towards the end. I was typically dog tire and if I didn't see the perfect tree for the PCT hang I just threw the food back in my pack, put my sweaty clothes on the pack and put it by my feet in tent.

Furthest North I saw a bear was Mass.


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Exactly. I've thru hiked the LT once, hiked the lower third of the LT three times, hiked 1700 miles of the AT, and have hung my food a grand total of two times, mainly to calm the fears of fellow hikers. Usually there is no acceptable branch from which to hang. I

In the southern states, the lowest branches are 100 ft off the ground (some hyperbole here) while in Vermont, the trees are too often too small.

I have always slept with my food without issue. As others have said, the only part of a bear I've seen is its fleeting rear end.

[greenpete]

Just wanted to add my "two cents," since I was lucky enough to not only see a bear, but have one in my campsite. It was a year ago at Brown's Gap, Shenandoah Nat'l Park. Established campsite on the edge of the trail, only a half-mile from Skyline Drive. A previous hiker had erected a designer-quality, high beam for bear bag hanging, so it was probably a clue there were bears close by. Well, the bear woke me up about 4 a.m., snorting outside my tent (sounded like a large hog). I hollered out, and he crashed through the brush - sounded like a freight train. My bear bag was still hanging, undisturbed, and I'm sure he could smell my food.

The next morning, I was only 100 yards from my site when I heard the same crashing sound, glanced over, and saw him disappearing over the hill.

Black bears are very, very harmless, and unless you provoke them, or threaten a mother's cubs, you'll be safe. And from my above experience, if you hang your food bag high, your food will be safe. The worst that can happen is maybe an early-morning wakeup call.

[wurble]

Exactly. I've thru hiked the LT once, hiked the lower third of the LT three times, hiked 1700 miles of the AT, and have hung my food a grand total of two times, mainly to calm the fears of fellow hikers. Usually there is no acceptable branch from which to hang. I

In the southern states, the lowest branches are 100 ft off the ground (some hyperbole here) while in Vermont, the trees are too often too small.

I have always slept with my food without issue. As others have said, the only part of a bear I've seen is its fleeting rear end.

I never saw anyone hang food on the LT section. It was sort of the line when no one worried about bears anymore.Most just hung in the shelter on critter hang or slept with it. In fact people not even staying in the shelter hung their food in the shelter. Never heard of any problems and never heard of any other hikers seeing a bear.

I slept with food towards the end. I was typically dog tire and if I didn't see the perfect tree for the PCT hang I just threw the food back in my pack, put my sweaty clothes on the pack and put it by my feet in tent.

Deacon and JJ, this is more in line with what I've heard from many long-distance hikers. Can you give a few more details about your food practices? For instance, were you using odorproof/odor resistant bags of any kind, did you carry meat products and how were they packaged, did you ever cook or eat in/near your tent, and how close to the trail/shelter did you camp?

[jj dont play]

Deacon and JJ, this is more in line with what I've heard from many long-distance hikers. Can you give a few more details about your food practices? For instance, were you using odorproof/odor resistant bags of any kind, did you carry meat products and how were they packaged, did you ever cook or eat in/near your tent, and how close to the trail/shelter did you camp?

No odor proof bag, used the Z-Packs Bear bag. I carried, meat, cheese, sweets, you name it. Usually repackaged in freezer ziplocs. Only time I ate in my tent was breakfast a few times when I hit Maine. I do feel that this is a bad practice. Have ate in sight of my tent majority of the time. Distance to trail/ shelter varied on what was available. Mostly slept in Shelters for the LT Section.
Beginning of trail I followed almost all the food odor rules concerning bears but after seeing 21 bears and seeing they wanted nothing to do with me even when I had food in my hands/ in the open. I was not worried about them as much.



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[pyroman53]

My friend, in my opinion, there is little you can do to affect if you will encounter a bear in your campsite while on the at short of camping in completely virgin sites, which flies in the face of LNT. Campsites have been used and abused, cooked in, food splattered, and generally made aromatic by hundreds of hikers before you. If bears usually come foraging in a campsite you're occupying, nothing you do will prevent it. Sure, you can exacerbate the situation but if mr bear wants to come by, he will. Whether you hang your food or sleep with it is your choice and folks on WB will argue which is better to no general concensus. Do what feels right, wear some earplugs and get some sleep. Or not. I like to hear the night sounds, especially the sound of chipmunks imitating bears right next to my tarp. I hang my food far enough away so I won't hear a bear getting it. Helps me sleep better knowing the noise I hear isn't my bear bag being ravaged. So far so good for me.

[saltysack]

The places I backpack are not known for any bear issues although I do carry bear spray. I worry way more about the little critters getting to my food...a dog is good for that.

especially a terrier! Rat killing machine...


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[eabyrd1506]

especially a terrier! Rat killing machine...


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I've a 10 Pound toy rat terrier, what can I take out of my pack to make up for her...

[saltysack]

I've a 10 Pound toy rat terrier, what can I take out of my pack to make up for her...

My shorty jack is around 20lbs......he has no problems doing 20 mpd....no need to carry...he's getting excited watching me pack for our CO trip next month, when the pack comes out he goes nuts!! It's been several months since our last hike @ the FHT...77 miles lil over 3 days.


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[rocketsocks]

I’m working on planning food for a solo northbound thruhike of the Long Trail in Vermont, late August until the end of September. Leaving in a few days. The southern half of the Long Trail coincides with the AT in Vermont, hence posting here.

As part of my food strategy, which in general is keeping food low-odor and sleeping with my food inside a Loksak Opsak, is it acceptable to have items like beef jerky, tuna in foil packets, salami, cheese, etc? In other words, are they low-odor enough?

So far I’ve been avoiding those items (except the cheese, which I will have a lot of). If I don’t take them, my protein will come from protein powder, cheese, nuts, whole grains, and freeze-dried beef/chicken in Mountain House meals.

Have you done this exact thing, on the AT in Vermont? (That's the part I'm most concerned about, since it has much heavier foot traffic.) Under what circumstances would you consider it to be safe?

Some context/background info:

Vermont has one of the densest black bear populations in the country, approximately 1 bear every 3 square miles (about 6000 bears in the state). There are no brown bears or grizzlies. Human traffic is relatively high on the southern portion of the Long Trail, which coincides with the AT, and quite low on the northern portion. Hunting is legal. Bear attacks remain rare. Only one person, a hunter whose bullet essentially missed, has ever been killed by a bear in Vermont. However, bears have recently (within the last year) become a problem in the high traffic area near Camel’s Hump, which now has bear boxes and is on my route. As far as seasonal bear activity, according to VT Fish & Wildlife, “By late August, bears seek foods with the highest nutritional value. In an effort to store as much energy as possible, they will eat up to 24 hours a day.”

I will be following Andrew Skurka’s advice for food protection in bear country. Specifically, I’m planning to:

– eat dinner on the trail, then hike another 30-60 minutes and set up camp, eat a small snack and go to bed
– camp away from established tent sites and shelters
– carry low-odor items and foods
– carry my food in Loksak Opsak odorproof bags, which sit inside a thinner BaseCamp odor barrier bag in my backpack

(For those who know the full list, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to consistently burn my trash, start early or finish late, or plan my route to avoid bear food sources.)

I’m planning to sleep with my food. No bear hang (except if I choose to stay in a shelter), no bear canister. The food will be inside a Loksak Opsak bag, which is inside the thinner BaseCamp odor barrier bag.

all high in purines and will cause your big toe to limp down the shoulder on the rim.

[Deacon]

Deacon and JJ, this is more in line with what I've heard from many long-distance hikers. Can you give a few more details about your food practices? For instance, were you using odorproof/odor resistant bags of any kind, did you carry meat products and how were they packaged, did you ever cook or eat in/near your tent, and how close to the trail/shelter did you camp?

I use three "odor proof" bags to organize breakfasts, snacks, and dinners. Not the heavier Lopsacks, but the thin bags that look like oven bags.

I pack all three of these into my main food bag. In the morning I'll take out the snacks for the day and put them in the waist pocket of my pack. The main food bag goes in the pack and doesn't come out until dinner.

If I'm in a shelter or in my tent, the bag lays right next to me.

[bikebum1975]

Marcovee, I'm specifically trying to avoid hanging a bear bag.

Why would you want to avoid it? Don't forget plenty of other critters want your dinner to. I live in Connecticut and hiked the section here a long time ago we hung out good bags nightly it's not hard to do either.

[Gravytrain]

We were about four days into a week and a half of squad and platoon evals. Policy is to hump out your trash, unless we have the supply guys going back and forth between the training site and garrison, at which point we would bag it up at one time, and they would dump it. My platoon sergeant went back to where we had staged our rucks, and found a black bear getting into his ruck. He tried to fight it off, but the bear ran off with his ruck in tow. Lost all his gear that was in the ruck. This was Fort Drum NY, northeast training areas which are the foothills of the Adirondacks.

Use those scent proof bags, but also hang your food and trash. It's not hard, and can be done really quickly, so even my lazy ass will be doing it.

[Gravytrain]

Why would you want to avoid it? Don't forget plenty of other critters want your dinner to. I live in Connecticut and hiked the section here a long time ago we hung out good bags nightly it's not hard to do either.

Raccoons the size of yearling bear cubs all over Fort Drum NY. Pretty sure it is because of the MREs they continually steal. I set up a comm station at the MOUT city with our company driver. He was on watch while I slept and he woke me up because a bear was getting into the back of the HUMVEE. We had several cases of MREs and half a dozen 5 gallon water cans for resupplying the guys as needed. Turns out, it was four huge raccoons trying to flip a case of MREs out of the back. Another time, we had a Blackhawk slingload in a pallet of MREs. This was just after dark, and we had been at it for sixteen hours, so the commander had us set up a perimeter and get some sleep. About 0200 the guy on radio watch woke us up by screaming there was a bear. It was two huge raccoons trying to drag off a case of MREs.

[Dogwood]

OK, I'm going to try to clarify:

A determined bear can get the food in any bear hang. In a PCT hang, they can send a bear cub out on the branch to break it (if it's small enough) or go out on the branch themselves and chew through the rope (if the branch is big enough). In a two-tree hang, they can chew through the rope where it's attached to the tree trunk. In both cases, they can climb a tree and then launch themselves at the bear bag from above, which will break the rope anyhow.

Given the many failure modes of a bear hang, it seems a key point is making the bear less interested in your food to begin with. You can't eliminate smells (especially since your hands will contaminate the outside of an Opsak) but you can reduce them. That's my goal here. The smell of a human is also a deterrent up to a point - the bear knows you're in your tent guarding your food, and hopefully it will decide it's not interested enough in your food to fight you for it. Camping away from the trail and away from water and bear food sources helps too, because a bear is less likely to have a habit of checking your specific campsite for food.

There have been numerous reports of bears being extremely interested in meat products, for example carrying away packs from shelters and eating just the can of tuna or pack of jerky, leaving the rest untouched. Having these foods in a tent a night has similarly provoked bear attacks. But as far as I can tell, none of those incidents involved the use of an odorproof bag of any kind. Eliminating meat products entirely would be the safest route, but I'd like to have more data on meat products in odorproof bags in bear country.

Finally, I have heard from many sources (including on this forum) that lots of AT thruhikers start out doing bear hangs every night, then decide it's not necessary (or too much hassle) and just sleep with their food, with or without odorproof bags, instead. How well does that strategy work in Vermont, which has lots of bears? Any incidents to report?

I think you have the right idea in that you're making an attempt to manage odors that might attract bears as well as possible other wildlife. From that perspective are you also planning on sleeping with your trash and other scented items: lip balm, toothpaste, etc? You nay not be able to always burn trash as you think.

If I was that concerned, which I'm generally not on the entire length of the Long Trail as the black bears are generally wary and shy, which the Vermont Fish & Game also states that you seem to be ignoring in favor of worst case scenarios, I'd PCT bear bag PROPERLY ALL THESE ITEMS including carried unopened food well downwind of where I sleep while employing Andrew's recs.

The PCT bear bagging system got a bad rap as a result, at least in some part, of poor PCT bear bagging related to inexperience with the system and location where adequate trees were rare. As a result the PCT system was foiled by smart bears in some areas of exceptionally heavy human use. From what I understand Vermont is not an area/state where the BLACK BEARS haver learned to foil a PROPERLY constructed PCT bear bagging system.

I also would not be blindly following the bear protection methods of AT thru-hikers! Lots of issues on the AT between humans and bears! At least part of those issues, MAYBE A LARGE PART, is related to HUMAN AT hiker behavior because they FAIL to adequately protect food from wildlife.

If all that concerned I also would poop and pee downwind of where I sleep, camp anywhere near known bear food generating areas like apple orchards, dense stands of blueberries, under beechnut tress with nuts/fruit in the area, etc.

I also think you're better off considering/researching how to avoid cross contamination of odors onto your gear, yourself, tent, or outside the LokSak OpSak/Base Camp odor proof bags. It's my contention bears will be attracted most to the most juiciest strongest smelling known food odors hence why they will sometimes go for the beef sticks, bloody steaks, sardine, seafood in cans, etc.

I personally am a pesce vegetarian off trail but will be lax on trail by including the rare chicken in a foil packet or chicken or turkey jerky. In known areas of problem human/bear encounters, or especially when in BROWN BEAR areas, I avoid smelly fish in cans and will separate my trash and especially tuna/chicken in foil packets from my food placing this trash in double odor proof bags or double Ziplock burning or disposing in garbage cans at THs at first chance. I don't like burning really smelly food trash though as that in itself especially if not totally burned in a HOT fire can be a bear/wildlife attractant.