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  1. #1
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    Default Break In at Unicoi Gap Parking Area.

    Two weeks ago my son and daughter and I left her car at Unicoi Gap and got a shuttle to Amicalola Falls to start a week long hike. I got back to the car on Wednesday to find that someone had ransacked it. They dumped everything out of all the compartments. spilled her makeup bag and clean clothes for the trip home onto the floorboard. The also took my clean bag and my sons. The car had no visible signs of entry and was locked. In talking to law enforcement it was decided that the thieves had a code breaker hidden in one of the 20 cars parked at Unicoi that Saturday afternoon. It picked up the signal from her key/car and stored it until they came back to see who they could rob. Thankfully they got nothing of any significant value.
    If your not familiar with the technique of code breaking, check it out. It's all over the internet.

    Be sure to remove valuable from your vehicle before hitting the trail. The thieves are watching.

  2. #2

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    and use the key to lock up...or go to each door and push the lock down, slam, next door.
    I need to remember to NOT use the key fob....
    For a couple of bucks, get a weird haircut and waste your life away Bryan Adams....
    Hammock hangs are where you go into the woods to meet men you've only known on the internet so you can sit around a campfire to swap sewing tips and recipes. - sargevining on HF

  3. #3

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    There all all kinds of stories just like this on Snopes.

  4. #4
    Registered User FatMan's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear. Break-ins are very rare at Unicoi.

  5. #5
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    One new poster, starts a hoax thread and another new poster points out it is hoax. Someone has too much time on their hands?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    One new poster, starts a hoax thread and another new poster points out it is hoax. Someone has too much time on their hands?
    The OP says he reported the incident to law enforcement. Easy enough to verify.

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    Never brought key fob and keychain with me.
    So locking with fob isn't a possibility.

    If someone wants in your car, it takes 2 sec if no one around. No electronic juju needed. Just a rock.

  8. #8

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    There is no known implementation of a device that can eavesdrop on the keyfob to car lock sequence and easily break the encryption. It's similar to attempting to crack a well encrypted wireless network, except that you'd only get a tiny amount of data each time the car's locked or unlocked. Breaking a wireless network is somewhat simplified by having large quantities of data being broadcast at any given time, allowing you to brute force against a large sample.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    There is no known implementation of a device that can eavesdrop on the keyfob to car lock sequence and easily break the encryption. It's similar to attempting to crack a well encrypted wireless network, except that you'd only get a tiny amount of data each time the car's locked or unlocked. Breaking a wireless network is somewhat simplified by having large quantities of data being broadcast at any given time, allowing you to brute force against a large sample.
    Agreed, the explanation you were given is ludicrous at best. A $55 kit from Galls will get you into every car in the lot with some manual tools.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddytwosticks View Post
    The OP says he reported the incident to law enforcement. Easy enough to verify.
    True, but this rumor of cars electronic key fobs being broken is a known hoax. There are 0 cases of this happening. So yes they could have had their car broken into and perhaps law enforcement said this, but it is not true.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    There is no known implementation of a device that can eavesdrop on the keyfob to car lock sequence and easily break the encryption. It's similar to attempting to crack a well encrypted wireless network, except that you'd only get a tiny amount of data each time the car's locked or unlocked. Breaking a wireless network is somewhat simplified by having large quantities of data being broadcast at any given time, allowing you to brute force against a large sample.
    Read this and take note of the references at the end. http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp

    It has become pretty easy to unlock a modern vehicle that was just locked by a key FOB. rhjanes (above poster #2) is correct. You need to lock your vehicle with the key.

  12. #12
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    My Ram truck was broken into back in '08. Turns out, Chevy, Dodge, and Ford trucks are vulnerable (were?) to a very simple technique. An ice pick inserted just under the door handle bezel, inline with the key lock and forced back behind the key lock will allow someone to trip key assy and thus, the power lock. Factory anti-theft assumes you unlocked it and welcomes the thief to pillage! That hole is very hard to see, if done skillfully. I was thoroughly convinced I'd locked my truck. The officer never took his eyes off of me and simply felt around under the door handle bezel, stopped, and said, "Here ya go." Sure enough, a tiny, round hole you really could only see by squatting down and looking up. Ford, to their credit, started putting a steel ring behind the door handle to mitigate this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbwood5 View Post
    Read this and take note of the references at the end. http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp

    It has become pretty easy to unlock a modern vehicle that was just locked by a key FOB. rhjanes (above poster #2) is correct. You need to lock your vehicle with the key.
    In that article they are tell you there is no known cases of anyone doing this. There is speculation some people may have developed a device to block the signals so the key fob dos not successfully lock the car. But no known cases of unlocking. So not sure how you can say it is pretty easy. Some very early key fob systems may have been easy to break, but more complex systems have been in new cars since 1990.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    In that article they are tell you there is no known cases of anyone doing this. There is speculation some people may have developed a device to block the signals so the key fob dos not successfully lock the car. But no known cases of unlocking. So not sure how you can say it is pretty easy. Some very early key fob systems may have been easy to break, but more complex systems have been in new cars since 1990.
    Here is a video from a surveillance camera showing thieves unlocking a car and stealing items.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqYJi6DV21A

    ...and another video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4TIYNqmKY0

  15. #15

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    Sorry, but neither of those have any explanation of what's actually happening and are little more than sensationalist fear mongering. The only reasonable explanation I've seen posited for breaking through keyless systems is by using an amplifier, but that system would only work on a vehicle that unlocks automatically when you're nearby -and- you're actually nearby.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Sorry, but neither of those have any explanation of what's actually happening and are little more than sensationalist fear mongering. The only reasonable explanation I've seen posited for breaking through keyless systems is by using an amplifier, but that system would only work on a vehicle that unlocks automatically when you're nearby -and- you're actually nearby.
    There have been way too many reported cases to say this is just fear mongering or rumor, or made up stories. There are two ways that it can be done. One method is similar to how passwords are hacked which involves sequentially transmitting millions of codes with the anticipation that the right code will eventually match the next sequence in the FOB to vehicle rolling combination. This can be done in a matter of seconds with today's microprocessor technology and high speed processing chips. It is exactly the same technology that thieves use to open a garage door that is operated by a wireless remote.

    The 2nd method is described in one of the technical write-ups and that involves blocking but capturing the code for first attempt to lock the vehicle. When the owner hits the button a 2nd time to lock the vehicle, the vehicle locks, but the first code that was captured is an unused code and can be used to unlock the vehicle. Used codes can not be re-used. Locking the car by a mechanical key prevents any codes from a FOB to be captured. That is probably the best counter measure you can take.

    The point is the technology is available and is being used out there. I believe even some auto locksmiths have it available at this time. If you Google the subject, you will find numerous accounts of this happening.

    As a side note, and somewhat unrelated story, my wife and I purchased a 2009 RAV4 new. One day my wife came out of Target and forgot exactly where she had parked. She hit the panic button on the FOB to activate the horn and ended up setting off horns on 3 other vehicles in the parking lot. One lady was actually loading groceries in her car when her horn went off and my wife could hear her yelling. Fortunately she didn't know how her horn got set off. I'm guessing that the codes for the panic button activation are a lot less sophisticated than the codes for unlocking the doors, but it sure got us thinking about how secure these wireless door locks actually are.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    There is no known implementation of a device that can eavesdrop on the keyfob to car lock sequence and easily break the encryption. It's similar to attempting to crack a well encrypted wireless network, except that you'd only get a tiny amount of data each time the car's locked or unlocked. Breaking a wireless network is somewhat simplified by having large quantities of data being broadcast at any given time, allowing you to brute force against a large sample.
    Umm, there is.

    https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hacker...opens-garages/
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpMaster Blaster View Post
    That's a really interesting approach. I wonder how reliably it can simultaneously block the receiver from hearing the code and intercept it itself.

  19. #19
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    One new poster, starts a hoax thread and another new poster points out it is hoax. Someone has too much time on their hands?
    And CSI-Whiteblaze never disappoints.
    igne et ferrum est potentas
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  20. #20
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    No signs of visible entry and the principle of Occam's Razor would make me think one of two things:

    1. The car was never locked to begin with.
    2. A simple tool that's been available to repo shops for 40 years was used to enter the vehicle.
    "Though I have lost the intimacy with the seasons since my hike, I retain the sense of perfect order, of graceful succession and surrender, and of the bold brilliance of fall leaves as they yield to death." - David Brill

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