Town's End- Update, advice, questions.

[Just Bill]

While I'm sure most you are not waiting in breathless anticipation, a few of you expressed interest in the gear company I am working on and the Primaloft Gold Quilts and hiking skirts that I was opening with. I'll reach out to a few of you individually as well who wanted to buy a quilt as soon as they were available to see if I can come up with a solution.

Update-
Unfortunately I had to discontinue my relationship with the sewing contractor I was using. As that contractor is well known here and our discussions continue I will not go into any details. Delivery dates were missed and the specs were not being met (size and weight). Primarily the issues though were related to quality, which was a big surprise and not one I will tolerate. The whole point of subcontracting professionally made goods is to deliver the highest quality goods I could at a fair price.

This leaves me absorbing several thousand dollars in losses and more importantly, with no quilts to sell.

I have found two other reputable contractors, but even if I cut a check tomorrow the sewn goods industry moves slowly and I'm looking at a 9-15 week process as well as much larger opening orders.

Advice-
I wanted to reach out for a little feedback and advice as I'm at a bit of a crossroads with this startup.

The Primaloft Gold Quilts are a unique product to the market, at least in my opinion. I think there are many folks who would appreciate a synthetic that is more packable and closer in weight to down, but roughly half the cost. 15 ounce, regular size, 45*, $150, packs to about 2L or less. A down version from Zpacks for example runs 12.5 oz, 40*, $360, packs to about 1.5L or less. My 25* version would be 26 oz, $180 or so and roughly 3L packed size. About $380 for a comparable down one at 18oz.

Option 1-
To offer the three sizes I hoped, in 45* and 25* will run me roughly $24,000. So likely I will need to choose one temp or the other. And not be able to afford any other product development.

Option 2-
Bite the bullet, invest in a quality sewing machine and some started inventory (fabrics) for around $10,000 and then have the option to offer all the quilts, skirts, and potentially other gear more easily.

Option 3-
I could offer Skirts, cheap wind pants, and some other lower cost goods as well for a lower production investment to generate some income... The skirts are original, but specialized. Something like a $50 windpant is just that, nothing new, but cheaper.

Basically- do I try and build a Go-Lite or a cottage company (some dude in his garage sewing one-offs).

Questions-
Any feedback on temperature rating choice?
45* synthetics are almost even with mid-range down by weight, but half the cost.
25* (20*) is by far the most popular quilt choice temp... but many of you likely will bite the bullet and buy the down product. So I don't see it as being as popular.

Cottage gear quality?
I don't feel I sew that well, others have told me my stuff looks fine. Compared to commercially made gear, hand made gear is not the same quality standard that I am used to. Do you care? Do people accept a different standard, accept a little less perfection in cottage gear? Is the trade off in mass production quality worth getting the gear because you can't get it elsewhere?

My crap in general- Do you even care at all?

Anyway, a bit of a weird post I know... but I wanted to get some feedback if possible to help me shape my choices. I desperately want to get this company going, but I do have young children and a full time job so I don't want to do it at the expense of my family.

[Mr Liberty]

While I'm sure most you are not waiting in breathless anticipation, a few of you expressed interest in the gear company I am working on and the Primaloft Gold Quilts and hiking skirts that I was opening with. I'll reach out to a few of you individually as well who wanted to buy a quilt as soon as they were available to see if I can come up with a solution.

Update-
Unfortunately I had to discontinue my relationship with the sewing contractor I was using. As that contractor is well known here and our discussions continue I will not go into any details. Delivery dates were missed and the specs were not being met (size and weight). Primarily the issues though were related to quality, which was a big surprise and not one I will tolerate. The whole point of subcontracting professionally made goods is to deliver the highest quality goods I could at a fair price.

This leaves me absorbing several thousand dollars in losses and more importantly, with no quilts to sell.

I have found two other reputable contractors, but even if I cut a check tomorrow the sewn goods industry moves slowly and I'm looking at a 9-15 week process as well as much larger opening orders.

Advice-
I wanted to reach out for a little feedback and advice as I'm at a bit of a crossroads with this startup.

The Primaloft Gold Quilts are a unique product to the market, at least in my opinion. I think there are many folks who would appreciate a synthetic that is more packable and closer in weight to down, but roughly half the cost. 15 ounce, regular size, 45*, $150, packs to about 2L or less. A down version from Zpacks for example runs 12.5 oz, 40*, $360, packs to about 1.5L or less. My 25* version would be 26 oz, $180 or so and roughly 3L packed size. About $380 for a comparable down one at 18oz.

Option 1-
To offer the three sizes I hoped, in 45* and 25* will run me roughly $24,000. So likely I will need to choose one temp or the other. And not be able to afford any other product development.

Option 2-
Bite the bullet, invest in a quality sewing machine and some started inventory (fabrics) for around $10,000 and then have the option to offer all the quilts, skirts, and potentially other gear more easily.

Option 3-
I could offer Skirts, cheap wind pants, and some other lower cost goods as well for a lower production investment to generate some income... The skirts are original, but specialized. Something like a $50 windpant is just that, nothing new, but cheaper.

Basically- do I try and build a Go-Lite or a cottage company (some dude in his garage sewing one-offs).

Questions-
Any feedback on temperature rating choice?
45* synthetics are almost even with mid-range down by weight, but half the cost.
25* (20*) is by far the most popular quilt choice temp... but many of you likely will bite the bullet and buy the down product. So I don't see it as being as popular.

Cottage gear quality?
I don't feel I sew that well, others have told me my stuff looks fine. Compared to commercially made gear, hand made gear is not the same quality standard that I am used to. Do you care? Do people accept a different standard, accept a little less perfection in cottage gear? Is the trade off in mass production quality worth getting the gear because you can't get it elsewhere?

My crap in general- Do you even care at all?

Anyway, a bit of a weird post I know... but I wanted to get some feedback if possible to help me shape my choices. I desperately want to get this company going, but I do have young children and a full time job so I don't want to do it at the expense of my family.

While I'm not in the market, a 25 degree synthetic quilt for ~$180 would be very attractive to me; partially because I despise down for it's lack of water resistance, and partially because the down would be just too expensive to get at reasonable quality for that temperature range.

I'd say you might be best off going with one of two strategies:
1. Go big and bold: a bit of a hybrid approach; drop the 40 degree quilt (for now), but also sell your handmade smaller items (windpants, etc.) on top of the quilts (which you would contract for, I suppose).
2. Go slow and steady: start by just offering smaller items such as clothing, and as your capital allows, invest in the equipment to make larger items (quilts, etc.).

[Just Bill]

While I'm not in the market, a 25 degree synthetic quilt for ~$180 would be very attractive to me; partially because I despise down for it's lack of water resistance, and partially because the down would be just too expensive to get at reasonable quality for that temperature range.

I'd say you might be best off going with one of two strategies:
1. Go big and bold: a bit of a hybrid approach; drop the 40 degree quilt (for now), but also sell your handmade smaller items (windpants, etc.) on top of the quilts (which you would contract for, I suppose).
2. Go slow and steady: start by just offering smaller items such as clothing, and as your capital allows, invest in the equipment to make larger items (quilts, etc.).

Thanks for the reply.
Still have bids coming in from the contractors and many choices to make.
As somebody who doesn't like to baby my gear... synthetics have always held appeal for that reason.

Course the lack of response to this thread is decent indication interest as well.

[Traveler]

Option 1-
To offer the three sizes I hoped, in 45* and 25* will run me roughly $24,000. So likely I will need to choose one temp or the other. And not be able to afford any other product development.

Option 2-
Bite the bullet, invest in a quality sewing machine and some started inventory (fabrics) for around $10,000 and then have the option to offer all the quilts, skirts, and potentially other gear more easily.

Option 3-
I could offer Skirts, cheap wind pants, and some other lower cost goods as well for a lower production investment to generate some income... The skirts are original, but specialized. Something like a $50 windpant is just that, nothing new, but cheaper.

Basically- do I try and build a Go-Lite or a cottage company (some dude in his garage sewing one-offs).

Questions-
Any feedback on temperature rating choice?
45* synthetics are almost even with mid-range down by weight, but half the cost.
25* (20*) is by far the most popular quilt choice temp... but many of you likely will bite the bullet and buy the down product. So I don't see it as being as popular.

Cottage gear quality?
I don't feel I sew that well, others have told me my stuff looks fine. Compared to commercially made gear, hand made gear is not the same quality standard that I am used to. Do you care? Do people accept a different standard, accept a little less perfection in cottage gear? Is the trade off in mass production quality worth getting the gear because you can't get it elsewhere?

My crap in general- Do you even care at all?

Anyway, a bit of a weird post I know... but I wanted to get some feedback if possible to help me shape my choices. I desperately want to get this company going, but I do have young children and a full time job so I don't want to do it at the expense of my family.

First off, I respect what you are attempting to do. It is not easy to get a start up company going, given the realities of the market and vendor sources. It took me a while to find the right footing for my company once I saw the initial business plan was not going to work nearly as well as I had thought. Being flexible is half the battle there and being able to move from a rigid business plan and bend as the market responds and causes it to meander so it can progress.

The thought of synthetics close to the weight benefits of down is attractive to a lot of folks if comments here are any indication. Just based on simple observations, I would think the niche for gear that meets (or exceeds) the simplified specifications you spelled out may be larger than can be estimated, though reaching that market presents its own challenges. What did your market research indicate about this and how were you planning to deal with it?

Option 1: I presume there is a financial ceiling you are reaching with respect to product offerings in the different sizes and temperature ranges. Is the $24,000 you cite the production cost from the contractor for an order that would presumably require a minimum unit production number? Or, is that the cost for acquiring the materials yourself and having it sewn by the contractor based on the number of units you want?

A fixed site commercial sewing shop I would think needs a minimum production order along with a fair amount of time to schedule the work onto the floor and make it. If I don't miss my guess, most shops want to get the lion share of payment prior to shipping, so you have to come up with capital to fund the flooring costs of inventory you may not have a lot of call for yet. Do you need ready inventory to sell, or can you take orders based on an x number of days/weeks delivery? If the latter, see below. If you need the inventory on hand, what will you do when you have specialized orders that come in, or you have a heavy order month and can't get the contractor to make more for two months? That will eventually happen and you will have customers pissed off at missed order dates unless theres a plan B or arrangement with the contractor made long before that day comes.

Option 2: May hold the keys to Option 1. Unless you don't take meals with the family, have distain for weekend days out in the air, or only plan on making a few of these per month, I would seriously re-think getting your own sewing equipment and doing the work yourself. Even a small run of orders will put you into a time crunch if you can't spool up production to meet fill-dates. As a short term answer to determine if the business plan is sound and/or the market research appears to be what you thought it was, though it sounds like you have reached and gone past that point. Finding the right sewing service is now instrumental in this, one that can work on deadlines at first and with marginal orders for a short time until you get your marketing feet under you.

If contractors have been a disappointment and they are brick and mortar locations, there is likely to be an underneath service market of individuals who have the equipment and could do this work. It sounds a bit far fetched, but if you are thinking about buying that equipment others undoubtedly have too and are probably using it to fill orders making boat cushions or bike seats in their spare time. Finding these folks who are set up in their homes may not be easy but could be the key you need. Not only to produce goods to your specs, their overhead would likely make them less expensive than a brick and mortar operation, providing some production savings horsepower to stock the sizes/temp rating you want for quick sale.

Option 3: Though it makes life more complicated, I like this option, especially if you have something unique for the industry, as your specialized skirt has. You know eventually you will have to expand your product line or move into being a supply vendor for a larger retail operation if you stay with quilts alone to expand the business so may as well get into specialized gear and some "We have this too" sales.

As a concept, you had mentioned people "biting the bullet" to buy down quilts at the 20* range for its lighter weight (given performance of synthetic is about equal and the cost is significantly less). How about creating a line of products that compliments your synthetic gear and reduces weight of other gear people carry to reduce the weight objection of synthetics? Rain pants that are lighter than commonly purchased commercial pants that you have to carry around when you aren't using for example. That list can be long, but you probably get the point.

Questions

Feedback on temp rating choice: This is more a gut feel you have for the market. Myself, I would drive the initial effort to the area you are more competitively advantaged. That would probably the 45* arena which gives you fairly firm footing to meet down construction weights and performance at a far lower cost. Use the power of the price differential as a marketing driver and be able to extend to other temps/sizes on special order until you see there is a definite market for stocking.

Though synthetics are a little heavier than down at lower temperature ratings, their advantage is they can get wet (and I am sure a host of other things you can put into the product that don't cost a lot). The idea of marrying your quilts with other products that are designed to lower pack weight on an E-Commerce platform gets more attractive. Being a small business, it will be easier for you to remain in that niche than it was for Go-Lite.

Cottage gear quality: Since you have sewn some gear, how many people looked at what they purchased from you with a critical eye? Could it be your eye is more critical than most customers? Only you know if there was a piece that went out that had a problem in production, you can spot it from across the room, but to the person who purchased it, its all but invisible. So you really become the last word in quality and what you want to put your name on, subjective as it may be. This also relates to the "do I sew it myself for a while" question. It could be you are too close to the product(s) and have a higher quality standard in mind than contractors can perform to, or that people would understand enough to pay more for, but their work will hold up to about anything you can throw at it. That said, finding that person working at home or several people independent of each other may be able to solve the quality issue.

My crap in general, do you even care: I have to say yes, for several reasons too long for this but I would like to see this get off the ground. I am a huge believer in the American Dream you are living at the moment and have been where you have before a few times.

If the effort you are engaged in has potential to provide far more resources for your family, children's education, etc., its not a gamble. A gamble is based on luck, since you are the driving force, determination replaces luck. Besides, what else are you doing?

I am not sure any of this helped, but thought I would take a stab at it. Sometimes its the one small thing that you discover along the way that turns the tumblers in the lock and the door opens.

Best of luck, Bill!

[Just Bill]

Thanks! Just as on the trail, I appreciate the deeper knowledge folks here have from their non-hiking life.
Yes, all opinions and advice is helpful and does get wheels turning.

To clarify a bit...
There are two basic (oversimplified) models to follow with this type of venture, IMO at least.

"Traditional" cottage gear supplier: a talented person gets into making gear for themselves, then for friends or online encounters... then goes into business.
Someone like Tim from Enlightened Equipment being an excellent example of this. This type of business develops slowly and springs up by offering a product others don't offer. There is often a high degree of customization offered to the customer. On the downside, lead times and cost increase as the business grows and eventually quality goes down slightly (though not always). The biggest pitfall: you must first and foremost become the owner of a sewing business. The reality: of all the thousands of MYOG nerds out there, Tim or Joe at Zpacks are an immense rarity.

Cottage Manufacturer: This is more of what GoLite turned into. After going the actual traditional route of Manufacture to Wholesale to Retail model, they cut out the middlemen and sold direct to the customer at a discount. An excellent model overall as the cottage biz can offer the same product direct to the consumer at wholesale prices. The two mistakes GoLite made- 1-Attempting to add brick and mortar without brick and mortar prices to cover overhead. 2- Inflexible inventory options... GoLite was famous for having a "hit" and then being out of stock for the next 9 months. Primarily I believe this was because of their choice to use overseas manufacturing and the lead time (6-9 months) and high piece count (1000-5000) limitations.

To be what most consider a cottage gear vendor- you must first start a sewing company. Slowly building up your equipment and scale up to meet demand. As far as I know, Tim did what you mention; sourced local home sewers to help produce until eventually bringing the work inhouse. Like any business this has it's own commitments, overhead, and growing pains. In addition, unless you have time to do it or get very creative, you face a constant cycle of growth challenges, equipment investments, and employee labor burdens.

On the flipside; if you have one or more flexible contractors you can greatly reduce overhead and the learning curve by skipping the sewing business completely. Provided you source the right mix of contractors you should be able to keep up with modest growth. The downside is fronting cash and attempting to predict the market in your buying choices. A huge problem for GoLite. You sacrifice the custom options, but provided you buy well and have some cash flow to stay in stock: you offer the same innovative products at competitive or better prices and little or no lead time.

I've chosen the manufacturing route...
I am acceptable, but not passionate about sewing. My skill if there is any, is in design and prototyping. I am a general contractor by trade so this model fits my skillset better. I have a young family and a day job. Roughly, I'd need to sell 45 quilts a month to cover my salary working full time at my day job. So while fronting money for inventory is no small task, it is less onerous than setting aside two years income plus inventory and equipment to really fund a sewing based start up. That said, after a year or more of bill slashing, we are about to downsize our house as well and potentially go the "tiny house" route to raise capitol and slash personal expenses even further.

I thought I had found that "startup" contractor. A cottage gear maker who sews for other companies. With small piece count orders (30-50) and more flexibility and specialized knowledge than a typical sewing contractor. Again, can't get into it at this time, but this route was a bust and resulted in losing money and several months of time. In addition lead times were non-existent "I'll get it when I get it" basically. Turns out I never got it.

So I am currently looking at more traditional sewing contractors. Reliability is higher, but piece counts (if they will even take my work) are in the 100 piece per order range. In addition there are pattern, grading, marker, and sample costs that I must pay prior to even ordering. While these are "one time" per product, they can range from $1000- $6000 per piece of gear I prepare for m. For example; a 45* quilt is one design, in three sizes and about $3000 before placing an order. Then I buy material myself at least (avoiding a typical sourcing markup) and pay on 50/50 terms. 50% down, balance due on completion. The order itself would be in the 9-12k range.

I think the quilt is my strongest opening piece, but also the largest capitol investment. (the 24k number roughly)
I could perhaps produce several less costly pieces for more diversity in my line, but other than the skirts they would basically be "me too" type gear at a good price. There is another issue hanging over my head too with not producing the quilts that I can't go into at this time either.

Realistically if I sew I believe I would end up like most cottage folks- having to charge full retail to cover the overhead of a sewing biz- and therefore losing any cost advantage. Personally I think that one of the biggest pitfalls with cottage gear is the high costs to the consumer. While many justify the "get what you pay for" costs, the reality is you get what the business can afford to produce for. Quite simply a small guy simply can't produce a piece of gear for anywhere close to the cost of even a mid sized sewing shop in the states. Most of the cost of basic cottage gear is simply economies of scale. If done properly I can gut out most of the overhead and offer a blend of the GoLite/Cottage model.

Predicting the market is tough no matter what biz you're in. (I think I'll start another thread on the quilts)
As a "success kills" worst case, I could sell out my 100 quilts on the first day and order on day two.
With the current contractor I prefer I would have a 6-9 week turnaround. Bad, but not that far off other lead times these days really.
If I'm sewing them, unless I quit my job it would be months to fill that order.

That is unrealistic though really. Even if there is a surge or pent up demand after a few months it will smooth out enough.

I guess the bummer and/or real turning point is that I will not be able to do what you mention- diversify my product line. I was in a position to open with 45*, 25* quilts (6 models) and 1-2 hiking skirt models, plus the quick potential to add wind mits and synthetic hats for winter. As it sits I will at best be a one trick pony. So I need to pick my horse carefully.

One or two folks mentioned something like kickstarter... but I hesitate to go that route.
Partially pride, partially community distaste for the process. But perhaps I am wrong on that.
If I have the capitol I could open a 6-12 product company easily and likely handle initial re-orders fairly easily with minor (4 week) hick-ups overall in regards to lead time delays to the customer.

You could say I have a capitol issue I suppose, but I don't always believe capitol solves all business issues. As I write this perhaps this is an exception... some things do actually cost what they cost and there is no clever solution. I do prefer to extinguish all options though before concluding that tossing money at something is the best way. Eventually this catches up to you in the midterm if you haven't slashed and burned overhead and GOGS in the start up phase. You either tighten your belt or raise your prices- neither are good IMO.

The main goal is to offer good to exceptional gear, at a price folks can afford.
I think that there is a strong appreciation for some cottage gear, but an underlying distaste for the costs involved for minimal spec gains. Every day on this site some hiker "goes broke" gearing up for a hike and then starts 15 threads on how not to pay for a hike, lol. I think because of the high cost many folks are forced into being obsessed about gear and short change the experience overall as a result.

"Light, well made, affordable- pick three!" I'd like to stick to that core model and while sewing in my basement will "put me in business" I think it's a desperation move on my part overall. If it turns out to be a means to an end then it is what it is, but I think I have the correct model for the goals I have set.

It helps very much to talk through it though.

[rocketsocks]

I think word of mouth/post goes a long way, unfortunately it also costs money to send out product made. Perhaps bite the bullet on a few bags/quilts and see if you get any bites, if you haven't already done this. I would be a lousy candidate as I don't hike much theses days, you know the ones who do, they are always out hiking and not here posting. good luck Bill

[Just Bill]

I think word of mouth/post goes a long way, unfortunately it also costs money to send out product made. Perhaps bite the bullet on a few bags/quilts and see if you get any bites, if you haven't already done this. I would be a lousy candidate as I don't hike much theses days, you know the ones who do, they are always out hiking and not here posting. good luck Bill

Yar, there is a bit of overhead on my end (website, handling, shipping, returns, etc.) plus product development per piece that must be fronted. That said though it's much less overhead than sewing myself and is more of a fixed cost.

I've sold some gear over the past few years to feel it out and pay for prototypes, but not much as I wanted to keep the product quiet. Probably the hardest part of this first setback is that I had/have sales I had to cancel or get creative with after my first vendor fell through.

The likely worst case... I get an opening inventory and it falls flat so I call it a day and spend the next year or two selling it in the forums and I eventually break even or even still turn a small profit.

You may not hike as much anymore, but I think you make a striking figure in your rain skirt either way!

[hikeandbike5]

I think you should focus on quilts, not windpants or mitts or whatever else you have going. Expand to those products later.

Your quilts seem to be a unique design and capture a unique niche in the market. I think they'd do quite well.

[1azarus]

I think you are a very talented designer, and a powerfully logical analyst of equipment needs (with the possible exception of that skirt thing...). Go for it.

[rocketsocks]

I think you are a very talented designer, and a powerfully logical analyst of equipment needs (with the possible exception of that skirt thing...). Go for it.

I love my rain skirt, I think people do too...you should see the looks I get.

[Just Bill]

I think you are a very talented designer, and a powerfully logical analyst of equipment needs (with the possible exception of that skirt thing...). Go for it.

I keep forgetting to ask... how are your hammock(s) holding up?
I switched designs so many times now I haven't used a single one more than 30 nights or so, lol.

[1azarus]

I keep forgetting to ask... how are your hammock(s) holding up?
I switched designs so many times now I haven't used a single one more than 30 nights or so, lol.

your hammocks have been perfect -- and, at the lightest weight on the market, I am a real fan.

[hikeandbike5]

Any plans to get the quilts back in production?

I think you'd corner the market if you could get them going, EE is now at 14-16 week wait times for a quilt (!)

[Just Bill]

Tis the season, lol... EE is catching on with the hammock crowd as well. Good for Tim!

As fer me... Plans are in place, but probably not for this season.
Since posting this originally I rethought things overall and realized the most realistic path was to slash and burn my personal expenses to a minimum to make this happen.
If I go cottage (make it myself) I can't afford a big salary. If I get it produced- I need cash.
We spent the winter downsizing, moving assets/finances and re-organizing in general and preparing our house for sale.

I firmed up things with my employer and got a raise and a contract.
Put the house up in Illinois- had 30+ showings and sold it for asking price in 14 days. Closing is 6/1.
We're going to jump the state line into Indiana (Valparaiso) and I just got an accepted offer this morning for a small 2 bedroom condo for about 75k that we close on 6/3.

My housing costs will go from $1700 to $540 a month.
Utilities, etc should drop.
My wife no longer has to work full time, so she can be our first "employee" or I can and she can bring home the bacon.
We may be able to go from a 2 car to a 1 car household- Valpo is a college town and very walking friendly.
Overall we cut our everything by at least half.
And we will be about 15 minutes from Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore and an hours from very nice areas in Northern Indiana/southern Michigan.

Haven't seen the final sheets yet on the real estate- but fingers crossed I should have near to 70k in hand when all is said and done to either replace my salary or hire subs and continue to work.
Course it's real hard staring at enough cash in hand to triple crown with the whole family... but thankfully my daughter is only 2 so I can just barely conquer the instinct to pack up and go hike.

It's a long process- but any trail worth walking usually is.

Thanks for thinking of me- all this came together this very week- so still pretty excited.

[1azarus]

congrats on successfully reinventing yourself. many want to. many try to. few do... kinda like hiking the AT. good work, Liar.

[CalebJ]

Sounds like you have some great gear ideas and a business plan that has tons of potential. Good luck, Bill! I look forward to seeing how things develop.

[Greenlight]

Revised: Hadn't read the whole thread. Congrats on the move, and good luck!

While I'm sure most you are not waiting in breathless anticipation, a few of you expressed interest in the gear company I am working on and the Primaloft Gold Quilts and hiking skirts that I was opening with. I'll reach out to a few of you individually as well who wanted to buy a quilt as soon as they were available to see if I can come up with a solution.

Update-
Unfortunately I had to discontinue my relationship with the sewing contractor I was using. As that contractor is well known here and our discussions continue I will not go into any details. Delivery dates were missed and the specs were not being met (size and weight). Primarily the issues though were related to quality, which was a big surprise and not one I will tolerate. The whole point of subcontracting professionally made goods is to deliver the highest quality goods I could at a fair price.

This leaves me absorbing several thousand dollars in losses and more importantly, with no quilts to sell.

I have found two other reputable contractors, but even if I cut a check tomorrow the sewn goods industry moves slowly and I'm looking at a 9-15 week process as well as much larger opening orders.

Advice-
I wanted to reach out for a little feedback and advice as I'm at a bit of a crossroads with this startup.

The Primaloft Gold Quilts are a unique product to the market, at least in my opinion. I think there are many folks who would appreciate a synthetic that is more packable and closer in weight to down, but roughly half the cost. 15 ounce, regular size, 45*, $150, packs to about 2L or less. A down version from Zpacks for example runs 12.5 oz, 40*, $360, packs to about 1.5L or less. My 25* version would be 26 oz, $180 or so and roughly 3L packed size. About $380 for a comparable down one at 18oz.

Option 1-
To offer the three sizes I hoped, in 45* and 25* will run me roughly $24,000. So likely I will need to choose one temp or the other. And not be able to afford any other product development.

Option 2-
Bite the bullet, invest in a quality sewing machine and some started inventory (fabrics) for around $10,000 and then have the option to offer all the quilts, skirts, and potentially other gear more easily.

Option 3-
I could offer Skirts, cheap wind pants, and some other lower cost goods as well for a lower production investment to generate some income... The skirts are original, but specialized. Something like a $50 windpant is just that, nothing new, but cheaper.

Basically- do I try and build a Go-Lite or a cottage company (some dude in his garage sewing one-offs).

Questions-
Any feedback on temperature rating choice?
45* synthetics are almost even with mid-range down by weight, but half the cost.
25* (20*) is by far the most popular quilt choice temp... but many of you likely will bite the bullet and buy the down product. So I don't see it as being as popular.

Cottage gear quality?
I don't feel I sew that well, others have told me my stuff looks fine. Compared to commercially made gear, hand made gear is not the same quality standard that I am used to. Do you care? Do people accept a different standard, accept a little less perfection in cottage gear? Is the trade off in mass production quality worth getting the gear because you can't get it elsewhere?

My crap in general- Do you even care at all?

Anyway, a bit of a weird post I know... but I wanted to get some feedback if possible to help me shape my choices. I desperately want to get this company going, but I do have young children and a full time job so I don't want to do it at the expense of my family.

[Greenlight]

Oh, and good Lord, get a clause in your contract that you don't pay for out of spec or mis-sewn goods.

[bigcranky]

Hey, Bill,

I guess I missed this thread completely last summer. Looking over the whole thing, you have nicely laid out all the issues with an individual starting a gear company from scratch. In years past, you could start very slowly, sewing a few items on the side on weekends and selling them to friends and at hiker gatherings, but with the internet, it's quite possible to sell out your order on day one, and have a three month wait on day two.

So, let me suggest that you reconsider Kickstarter. It's possibly the perfect model for your business ideas:

1. It's not begging, like some other sites: you are pre-selling an actual product. If for some reason you can't sell enough of them, everyone gets their money back. (And you get some valuable data.)

2. You get all the production money up front, before production starts, reducing the cash you have to provide out of pocket for your first major product.

3. Customers understand before they order that this will take some time. You can keep them in the loop on the production process, with photos, videos, social media, etc. They feel engaged in the process.

4. Customers actually can get a warm fuzzy feeling that they are helping to start up a small business. Contrast this with the cold hard feelings they will have on day two when you have sold out your whole production run, and they are facing a 3 month wait for the product. (Funny how reframing the exact same wait time changes how people feel about it.)

Of course this won't help solve issues with your production company -- you'll still be responsible to get very high quality good delivered to the customers. But you'll go into the process holding more cards.

You could start with a Kickstarter for the 45F quilt, then use the proceeds to fund the 20F quilt (and promote the idea that one could use both quilts down to about 0F). Or do a Kickstarter for the 20F quilt as well, after the 45F has been successfully delivered.

In the mean time, you could consider sewing the other items in house - they won't require as much time per item, so it's possible to keep them in stock with working on the side. And of course you'll be busy with the quilt production and the social media aspect of the process. (Or your wife will, anyway.)

So, something to consider. Good luck with the whole project, it's one of those things that could be life-changing.

Ken

[Just Bill]

congrats on successfully reinventing yourself. many want to. many try to. few do... kinda like hiking the AT. good work, Liar.

Kinda like hiking the trail, big first step to show up on Springer at all. Though best not to pat myself too hard on the back lest I fall on my face before I even take a real step.

On that topic- had dinner with a friend and enjoyed a recent gift of beer from a mutual friend not too long ago I thought I'd share. I don't get much time to write these days...

Thanks to everyone for the kind words and advice. Time to dig in and move for a few weeks until the next resupply point.

WARNING TO LONE WOLF AND OTHERS: What follows is a string of multiple words, formed into paragraphs, commonly called a short story.
This can easily be confussed with the dreded long post. It can also be easily skipped over; saving not only the time of complaining about the original collection of words, but also the additional words used to complain about the words.

The Heady Topper-

"Some people wake up on Monday mornings
Barring maelstroms and red flag warnings
With no explosions and no surprises
Perform a series of exercises

Hold your fire
Take your place around an open fire

Before your neurons declare a crisis
Before your trace Serotonin rises
Before you're reading, your coffee grounds
And before a pundit could make a sound
And before you're reading your list of vices
Perform the simplest exercises"


The other night Ol’ Man Willy came by for some chow, but mainly fer a visit and some gum flappin. Visiting and gum flappin being something we both hold dearly in common, it was nice to see him. The long months of overtime at work began to die down, and the oft put off visit could finally take place.

As dinner wound down my son began his evening chore of sweeping the floor. He’d do the bit under his chair, then the bit near his sister’s. Then I’d call him back and point to all the things he missed, and he’d try again. After the third time and a list of reasons clearly logical and obvious to a five-year-old were cheerfully explained; we could eventually compromise and call the job done. Freed from his chores he raced off to play while my wife put our daughter to bed.

I headed for the fridge and pulled a few silver cans of something extra special from the fridge. The ol’ fella gave a low whistle that shook his bristly brows as he inquired as to how a young fella in Chicago came to acquire a pair of rare beers from Vermont. “A stranger who knows me kindly sent them along.” said I to he as we popped the tab and drank direct from the can as instructed.

After a sniff and a sip, a bit of swishing an swallowing, followed by a good moment to allow the tingly topper to go from belly to toes before rising to head; he asked about the for sale sign in the yard. I chuckled at my beer in response, while I gathered myself. With a bit of embarrassment, I looked up at the family portrait on the wall and I answered question with question, “So what happens when you finally figure out what you want to be when you grow up, but much to your astonishment you look around and realize that you already have become a grown up.”

He took a long pull, and I could almost hear the beer tingling in his toes and thoughts right before my ears. After a good bit his eyes sparkled. I got nervous. “What makes you so sure you’re a grown up young man?”

“So you married the cow despite getting the milk fer free? Had the big wedding, then you stuck around after a few of yer squirts hit the mark? Put a roof over their head and changed a few diapers, eh. And now you have responsibilities, restrictions, mortgages, obligations and a downright panoply of words with more letters than needed to describe the depths of your adult condition? If’n we’re stretching words an adding letters I gotta say overall that’s mighty unimpressive.

Here’s a simple word fer ya. Brick. It’s got some heft to it, it’s solid. A pair of good hard consonants with a soft little “i” to tie em together. Goes real nice with wall; which is a popular word these days amongst some grown-ups. So let me ask you this. What happens when you wake up one day; and you realize that being a grown up mainly consists of humping together a bunch of bricks until you build a big enough wall to hide behind and claim you’re all grown up because you have built this wall?

Having joined the wall builders club you can now sit around with the other folks who built a wall and pat each other on the back and compare your fine walls. You can pay folks to take pictures of your wall, so you can hang them on it, so when folks come to see your wall they can see how proud you are of it. Some folks are genuinely proud of their walls, satisfied with what they built.

Some ain’t, so sometimes you can head to the bar and sob in each other’s beers about the damned wall and what it costs to maintain. How you’d love to do this or that but you gotta take care of the wall. And you exchange the old ‘I hear ya man, I got a wall too and I love it to death but…’

One day you may even find that the best friend you started out laying bricks with somehow ended up on the other side of this monstrosity. You can wave at each other, and shout through the wall about the wall. Or lean against it some nights and prop each other up. Maybe even look at the pictures together from time to time and smile. Set a few bricks aside when you can, maybe for better days, maybe just for your mausoleum.

So you wanna be a real grown up? Then step up and take charge of your own life. Mostly all I hear is the same silly things that came from your son’s mouth. About how you couldn’t do the simple stuff set out before you the first time and kept having to come back to do it again before you get to run off and play. You just got bigger, with bigger excuses. You didn’t grow up dummy. You just finally took a good look at yer wall and realized it needed a door.”

I sucked the last of the Alchemist’s creation from the can and set the empty down hard on the table. I realized I had been staring at the happy picture on the wall the whole time. I missed it. I didn’t care much for the wall it hung on, but I did like the folks in the picture a fair bit. I looked again at the old man sitting at my table. I nodded to tell him I was ready.

“It’s pretty simple; when you wake up in the morning; pick something. A grain of sand, a hunk of mortar, a single brick. And move it.

Then one day you can tell yerself, ‘What happens when you finally grow up, and much to your astonishment you look around and realize that you have figured out how to become exactly who you really want to be.’”

We sat quietly for a time, as the brief glimpse of the path long path ahead was reduced to the simple reality of taking the first step. The truth is always simple, not easy, but always simple. Any liar knows that.

“If I may be so bold as to advise you on one further topic?”

Once more I nodded, once more he sparkled, “These hoppy head turners are nice fer getting a fleeting glimpse of the path ahead, but I think it best you stick to the good earthy grains fer a bit. Nothing like a wheat to slack the thirst, a porter to carry the day, and stout bit of dark bread to keep your feet on the path ahead when there are still long miles to go.”

“Yar, there’s work yet to do. But it was a nice treat.”

We sat a bit, the Ol’ Man and I.
“Quite speech” said I.
“Quite a beer”, said he.

“Thank’ee kindly” said we.


"So here we are at the end, the war is over
There's nothing left to defend, no cliffs of dover
So let us put down our pens and this concludes the test
Our minds are scattered about from hell to breakfast

Hold your fire
Take your place around an open fire"

“Simple X”, Andrew Bird