Hiker survives repeated grizzly attack

[Hosh]

It may be that the human population in Colorado is going nuts these days. Current population is 5.47 million people. 3,000 moose sounds miniscule. Maybe we could limit sprawl and allow more moose habitat??

Sounds very trendy.

The facts are that there is very little overlap between the moose's habitat and "urban sprawl". Most moose habitat is in lowland water areas hardly a developer's delight.

Moose were re-introduced 30 years ago near Walden and have done very well. To the point that some hunting tags go un-filled even though they are quite a tasty animal.

One of our biggest land use struggles in Colorado is policy being set by a bunch of people who live in or near Washington DC

[Coffee]

The one thing that this type of incident, widely disseminated on Facebook and everywhere else, is that I receive links to this story from many people I know who are "concerned" even though I have yet to hike in Grizzly country and my next trip this month is on the AT. I guess it is nice to know people care ...

[Lnj]

your mistake is assuming that any of us grew up. :d

hahaha!!!

[rocketsocks]

I double dog dare anyone to "grin a barh" like Daniel Boone use ta do...let us know how that works out.

[rocketsocks]

I double dog dare anyone to "grin a barh" like Daniel Boone use ta do...let us know how that works out.

Whoops! Davy Crocket, though I'd bet ole Daniel could give a barh whut fur too.

[pickNgrin]

They were both played by Fess Parker, so you're good.

[litetrek]

Can you provide more detail on this?

Recently I did two overnight trips on the AT in Georgis and found that people usually eat where they sleep. Maybe I have been overly paranoid about separating myself from food odors.

Here are the details. The campsite at the river end of the Penitentiary Branch Trail is noted for having bear visits, probably because of its easy access. People with fairly easy access to a back country campsite aren't necessarily knowledgeable about being careful with food, smells, etc when camping in bear country. The campsite we were using was fairly close to the penitentiary branch campsite and it was at the bottom of rough ridge which was also noted at the time (maybe still is-dont know) for having bear visits.

Anyhow, we camped at the bottom of rough ridge and my hiking buddy was cooking dinner and he spilled the Mylar bag on the ground while he was stirring it. Bad move. He then compounded the mistake by scraping up the spillage and insisting on burying it about 75 feet from our tents. Bears have a sense of smell that is so good they can smell food for miles. While I was explaining to my friend that burying food was just stupid and burying it right by our tents was even more stupid the first bear (the male) showed up. We tried to shoo him away by yelling and waving our arms and he persisted. Apparently he thought we were too menacing and he lunged at me. This upset my friend who then grabbed the bear spray and discharged the canister on himself. He the picked up a dead branch which made him look bigger and the bear got scared and ran off. I took the canister and dribbled what was left on the remnant of the buried and spilled spot making them unappealing.

The mother and her cubs wandered by about 10 minutes later. She would have left us alone but my buddy had to follow her to get some pictures. The cubs climbed some trees and momma dropped her head and gave my friend the look of death...like one more step and you've had it. He was at least smart enough to pick up on the visual cues and came back to the campsite. I didn't sleep well that night but luckily the bears did come back. I'm told that they often return.

You probably already know about this since you mention that you're paranoid about it but a lot of people dont.

a) you're only as safe as the dumbest person you're camping with. If your buddy goes to bed with a candy bar in his pocket and a bear comes to get it, you've both got a bear to deal with. I'm especially paranoid about stupidity I can't see like the last guy to use the campsite you're camping in who poured his bacon grease off into the weeds next to where you pitched your tent before he left 3 hours ago.

b) spilled food, even a little bit will attract animals - maybe a bear. Ideally have separate clothes to sleep in that you only sleep in. food spilled on yourself makes you a smellable.

c) put ALL of your smellables in a bear bag and hang the bear bag at one corner of the "bear-muda" triangle. Some people use an Ursack instead since hanging a bear bag is a pain. Others use a bear canister. Bear canisters are a pain. They're heavy, they're hard to pack, they're expensive and the hold a limited amount of food/smellables. Learn how to properly hang a bear bag....its not that easy and they aren't guaranteed to work. bears are smart and if your bear decides to persist he'll get your stuff anyhow

d) many things are a smellable to a bear since they don't get the smells in their environment and they want to check them out. Typical smellables are: food, food scraps, garbage, soap, deodorant, perfume, tootpaste, tootbrush, you if you have any of those types of smells on you. ETC. Bears are smart and curious. If they smell something they've never encountered they want to check it out.

e) the bear-muda triangle is a triangle with your tents at one corner, your bear bags at another corner, and the place you clean your cooking pots at the other corner. The sides are 300 feet (if I remember right) at a minimum.

f) rule of thumb - think hard about smellables when hanging the bear bag. As soon as its hung you'll find a smellable you forgot or realize you need something that's up in the bag.

All of this said, I've only had a close encounter with bears that one time in 40 years of backpacking. One other time a saw bear running across the road while in my car from about 200 feet. Another time I saw one about 500 feet away over in North Carolina. We both just payed our respects and continued on our way leaving each other alone.

[litetrek]

I wish it was possible to edit these posts. The bears at rough ridge did NOT come back to visit us. Also, I forgot to mention that a lot of people don't really worry much about bears on the east coast. They're playing the odds and usually it works out. Using the precautions I listed greatly improves your odds but still doesnt ENSURE that you wont get a bear visit.

[litetrek]

+1 on the need to be careful of moose, especially cows with calves and bulls in the Fall rut. While their habitat is limited in Colorado due to presence of marshes and lakes, they are dense in areas of North Park, Colorado River head waters and the Flat Tops Wilderness. Although the Colorado Shiras species is smaller than their Alaskan cousins, the males are over 6' tall at the shoulder and can weight 1200 #'s.

They have no fear of humans and can open your skull with 1 kick. I have had them march through a back country site on the edge of a meadow at dusk with no regard for the site's resident humans. They almost walk over a 2 man tent. My friend had a bull tag last year which he filled as a 50" bull walked through their car camping site. Made for an easy carry to the coolers.

Near Cameron Pass on the Cache La Poudre

Moose look docile but they are very irritable and can easily kill you as you say. I like moose (meese) but I don't want one to be anywhere close to me. I've been in moose country in the north east but never saw one on the trail (limited hiking experience up there). I did see a bunch of them when hiking in Alaska but we kept our distance from them.

[FreeGoldRush]

Here are the details. The campsite at the river end of the Penitentiary Branch Trail is noted for having bear visits, probably because of its easy access. People with fairly easy access to a back country campsite aren't necessarily knowledgeable about being careful with food, smells, etc when camping in bear country. The campsite we were using was fairly close to the penitentiary branch campsite and it was at the bottom of rough ridge which was also noted at the time (maybe still is-dont know) for having bear visits.

Anyhow, we camped at the bottom of rough ridge and my hiking buddy was cooking dinner and he spilled the Mylar bag on the ground while he was stirring it. Bad move. He then compounded the mistake by scraping up the spillage and insisting on burying it about 75 feet from our tents. Bears have a sense of smell that is so good they can smell food for miles. While I was explaining to my friend that burying food was just stupid and burying it right by our tents was even more stupid the first bear (the male) showed up. We tried to shoo him away by yelling and waving our arms and he persisted. Apparently he thought we were too menacing and he lunged at me. This upset my friend who then grabbed the bear spray and discharged the canister on himself. He the picked up a dead branch which made him look bigger and the bear got scared and ran off. I took the canister and dribbled what was left on the remnant of the buried and spilled spot making them unappealing.

The mother and her cubs wandered by about 10 minutes later. She would have left us alone but my buddy had to follow her to get some pictures. The cubs climbed some trees and momma dropped her head and gave my friend the look of death...like one more step and you've had it. He was at least smart enough to pick up on the visual cues and came back to the campsite. I didn't sleep well that night but luckily the bears did come back. I'm told that they often return.

You probably already know about this since you mention that you're paranoid about it but a lot of people dont.

a) you're only as safe as the dumbest person you're camping with. If your buddy goes to bed with a candy bar in his pocket and a bear comes to get it, you've both got a bear to deal with. I'm especially paranoid about stupidity I can't see like the last guy to use the campsite you're camping in who poured his bacon grease off into the weeds next to where you pitched your tent before he left 3 hours ago.

b) spilled food, even a little bit will attract animals - maybe a bear. Ideally have separate clothes to sleep in that you only sleep in. food spilled on yourself makes you a smellable.

c) put ALL of your smellables in a bear bag and hang the bear bag at one corner of the "bear-muda" triangle. Some people use an Ursack instead since hanging a bear bag is a pain. Others use a bear canister. Bear canisters are a pain. They're heavy, they're hard to pack, they're expensive and the hold a limited amount of food/smellables. Learn how to properly hang a bear bag....its not that easy and they aren't guaranteed to work. bears are smart and if your bear decides to persist he'll get your stuff anyhow

d) many things are a smellable to a bear since they don't get the smells in their environment and they want to check them out. Typical smellables are: food, food scraps, garbage, soap, deodorant, perfume, tootpaste, tootbrush, you if you have any of those types of smells on you. ETC. Bears are smart and curious. If they smell something they've never encountered they want to check it out.

e) the bear-muda triangle is a triangle with your tents at one corner, your bear bags at another corner, and the place you clean your cooking pots at the other corner. The sides are 300 feet (if I remember right) at a minimum.

f) rule of thumb - think hard about smellables when hanging the bear bag. As soon as its hung you'll find a smellable you forgot or realize you need something that's up in the bag.

All of this said, I've only had a close encounter with bears that one time in 40 years of backpacking. One other time a saw bear running across the road while in my car from about 200 feet. Another time I saw one about 500 feet away over in North Carolina. We both just payed our respects and continued on our way leaving each other alone.

This is all correct. I was kinda surprised at how people come in, setup tents, eat next to their tent, and hang a bear bag a few steps away. Even the provided bear cables are shockingly close to where people sleep.

So try as hard as you like, but even if you separate yourself from your food smells you very likely are sleeping where someone else poured the remaining liquid out of their Mountain House mylar bag.

[Tipi Walter]

I wish it was possible to edit these posts. The bears at rough ridge did NOT come back to visit us. Also, I forgot to mention that a lot of people don't really worry much about bears on the east coast. They're playing the odds and usually it works out. Using the precautions I listed greatly improves your odds but still doesnt ENSURE that you wont get a bear visit.

Cool post about Cohutta and Penitentiary Branch jct on the Jacks. I've done many trips into the Cohut and spent many nights at both the Penit/Jacks Camp and the Rough Ridge Camp a little downstream on the Jacks. Both are very nice campsites. And I guess in my Georgia and TN and NC treks I've probably seen 25 or 30 black bears in various configurations. Just recently I had one big beast walk right up to my tent and we talked.

While not wanting to be eaten of course, I see my bear relatives as the original inhabitants to what's left of our great forests and with them comes wilderness. Without bears we don't have wilderness. Will I defend my food to the death? No, but I might my tent.


Anyway, here's where the Penit Trail descends to jct the Jacks trail. This is around crossing 18/19 when going upstream on the Jacks.


The 19th Jacks crossing by the Penitentiary trail jct.


The big campsite at the Penit/Jacks jct.


The Rough Ridge trail jct with the Jacks trail, a little downstream from the Penit jct. Okay, back to your regular programming.

[Engine]

...He then compounded the mistake by scraping up the spillage and insisting on burying it about 75 feet from our tents. Bears have a sense of smell that is so good they can smell food for miles....I took the canister and dribbled what was left on the remnant of the buried and spilled spot making them unappealing...

I added the emphasis to point out a common and serious misunderstanding of what bear spray is about. It is an irritant, NOT a repellent. Tests have shown bears are actually attracted to the smell of OC spray and further, if it's sprayed on the ground, they will roll in it like a dog. Spray it in their eyes and nose and it works great, but don't spray it around your campsite or you are inviting unwanted guests...

[DuneElliot]

Moose look docile but they are very irritable and can easily kill you as you say. I like moose (meese) but I don't want one to be anywhere close to me. I've been in moose country in the north east but never saw one on the trail (limited hiking experience up there). I did see a bunch of them when hiking in Alaska but we kept our distance from them.

I run into moose all the time, and have almost stumbled over them a couple of times...if it hadn't been for my dog I would never have seen the large bull in the aspens and would have been too close as I walked by on the trail. I'm careful with moose because they are a far more common animal to come across than bear (still haven't seen one while backpacking) and a big bull can be dangerous. Having a herding dog could be a good thing if I ever do surprise a moose that decides it doesn't like me.

[Hosh]

My future SIL and I were fly fishing in the lower Kawuneeche Valley on the upper reaches of the Colorado River. He took off downstream and came upon 2 twin calves under a willow bush. Luckily mamma moose was not close by or it could have gotten ugly.

I have also seen them at 10K feet while hiking up to the Continental Divide. My friends had their dog with them. I figured we should back off fearing the cow moose would view the dog as a threat to her calves.

[litetrek]

I added the emphasis to point out a common and serious misunderstanding of what bear spray is about. It is an irritant, NOT a repellent. Tests have shown bears are actually attracted to the smell of OC spray and further, if it's sprayed on the ground, they will roll in it like a dog. Spray it in their eyes and nose and it works great, but don't spray it around your campsite or you are inviting unwanted guests...

That's interesting. I didn't know that. I guess the bears didn't come back because they thought we were too stupid to bother with.

[Sarcasm the elf]

That's interesting. I didn't know that. I guess the bears didn't come back because they thought we were too stupid to bother with.

That's my tactic as well.

[litetrek]

Cool post about Cohutta and Penitentiary Branch jct on the Jacks. I've done many trips into the Cohut and spent many nights at both the Penit/Jacks Camp and the Rough Ridge Camp a little downstream on the Jacks. Both are very nice campsites. And I guess in my Georgia and TN and NC treks I've probably seen 25 or 30 black bears in various configurations. Just recently I had one big beast walk right up to my tent and we talked.

While not wanting to be eaten of course, I see my bear relatives as the original inhabitants to what's left of our great forests and with them comes wilderness. Without bears we don't have wilderness. Will I defend my food to the death? No, but I might my tent.


Anyway, here's where the Penit Trail descends to jct the Jacks trail. This is around crossing 18/19 when going upstream on the Jacks.


The 19th Jacks crossing by the Penitentiary trail jct.


The big campsite at the Penit/Jacks jct.


The Rough Ridge trail jct with the Jacks trail, a little downstream from the Penit jct. Okay, back to your regular programming.

I agree that the bears have a better claim to the territory than me. I actually like seeing them from about 200 feet. When they are closer to me than my hiking partner, they are too close for comfort.