WhiteBlaze Pages
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
$10 for printed copy(paperback). $6 for interactive PDF. $2 for printable PDF.
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 200
  1. #1
    Registered User tagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-03-2009
    Location
    greenwood, sc
    Age
    48
    Posts
    295

    Default inconsiderate vs ignorant

    I know this topic has been beaten to death on here, but I recently experienced a situation while on a 10 day section hike that I wanted to share because of the way in which in ended...

    My partner and I pulled 21 miles on the first day of our trip because it was raining all day (this was a few weeks ago when Hurricane Matthew came up the coast), so there wasn't much to do other than walk. We had just entered the southern part of SNP, so camping spots were limited and we decided to push on after dark into Calf Mountain Shelter, arriving a little after 9:00pm. I had no intention of staying in the shelter, as I've only slept in a few in over 1000 miles on the AT, but my buddy was dragging and was very much looking forward to getting there, throwing down his pad, and going to sleep. It's pretty much all he talked about for the last few miles in a cold, dark rain. We expected others to be there, and understand that space is first come/first served, but we still figured it wouldn't be full.

    But as we walked up, wet and tired, we saw that it was indeed full. Full of tents. Three of them to be exact, one of which was a huge 2-3 person tent. Between the tents and their gear, there was literally no space left. My buddy sat at the picnic table right next to the shelter, exhausted and over it, and let his thoughts be heard, but none of them stirred or stuck their heads out to offer to make room. I went about hanging my hammock and then found a spot for him to set up his tent, which he did, and everything was fine...but it was really frustrating, particularly to my partner. There is no way they didn't hear us come in or hear us talking about it, but they all held their breaths and didn't move a muscle until we left the table. The next morning, they packed up early and we never even got a look at them before they broke camp.

    Fast forward a couple of days, and we're taking a late afternoon break at one of the huts before moving on for a few more miles, and a guy who was already set up behind the shelter walks up as we're putting our packs back on to inform us that he was one of the people tenting in the shelter that first night. He said he heard us when we got there, was surprised that anyone else showed up that late, and told us that he "didn't understand hiking etiquette" when he set up his tent in the shelter. He said that he felt badly as he listened to us set up in the rain, that he would never make that mistake again, and he apologized multiple times.

    I would have thought that not setting up a huge tent in the shelter falls more under the lines of common sense than "hiking etiquette," however the fact that this dude acknowledged it and owned it when we never would have known it was him was a stand-up thing to do, and tells me that he genuinely did not know he was being inconsiderate. It has also given me pause to consider that sometimes when somebody throws their trash in the fire pit or washes their dishes in a spring or does something else ridiculous like that, maybe they're just ignorant and not actually an a-hole? Food for thought.
    -tagg

  2. #2
    Registered User ADVStrom14's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-13-2016
    Location
    Garner, NC
    Age
    40
    Posts
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tagg View Post
    It has also given me pause to consider that sometimes when somebody throws their trash in the fire pit or washes their dishes in a spring or does something else ridiculous like that, maybe they're just ignorant and not actually an a-hole? Food for thought.
    As a new hiker, I will honestly say, while I know that it is not a good idea to set up a tent in a shelter, there may be some things that I do that may not be the "right" thing to do. Truth be told, that is one of my biggest fears as I get started. I have been on some forums and seen some newbies get reamed for something they "should know better than to do" when in actuality, they didn't know better because they had not reached that part of their research yet. I read a lot and do a lot of research so I am learning things every day but most of it I have learned because of my reading and research and not because anyone bothered to take the time to teach me. (Or that there was anyone to teach me for that matter.)

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    977

    Default

    Everyone has their blind spots, something often forgotten or unappreciated by the more experienced (which is a blind spot in and of itself! oh how meta ...)

    I agree, that was a stand-up thing to do. In theory, he could have been acting ignorant to save face, not knowing you didn't get a good look at him that morning. But you might as well give him the benefit of the doubt.

  4. #4
    Registered User dudeijuststarted's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-15-2008
    Location
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Age
    41
    Posts
    541
    Images
    33

    Default

    yeah there's alot of BS out there. you can lecture one group, and deal with the same thing the next day. last year in MD a few city slickers walked up to the shelter by the highway overpass there and starting unloading tents and booze. they were wearing basically clothes to go clubbing in. I asked them to switch sites with me so they could party and i could sleep, and they got all defensive and standoffish, completely unaware that the AT and its shelter system wasn't for partying. this is one reason hammocks can be a dream. pitch your fly, pitch your hammock nice and dry, no need for flat earth.

  5. #5
    Registered User johnnybgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-28-2007
    Location
    Midlothian,Virginia
    Posts
    3,080
    Images
    76

    Default

    Knowing that shelter he's lucky the resident mice didn't chew a hole in his tent.
    Your point is a valid one though, as there seems to be an epidemic of what I call a lack of common sense.

    The reality is that our expections we have for others in the hiking world are lkely higher than we admit to.
    Getting lost is a way to find yourself.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Many people are just dumba$$es.

    My wife has cousins that throw beer caps and cigarrette butts into yard around their trailer. When they came to our house and did that, I was ready to beat the #[email protected]& out of them.

    Some people are just ignorant and stupid and uncaring, and will always be.

    Others just make mistakes and learn from them
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 10-31-2016 at 12:44.

  7. #7
    GA-ME 2011
    Join Date
    03-17-2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,071
    Images
    9

    Default

    You could have hung your hammock across the front of the shelter for spite

    Personally I'd have said something directly to the tenters, not just being loud enough to be overheard.

    Good for the one hiker for apologizing. Hope you thanked him for being honest.

    Really I think a lot of people are just clueless. I hike the local trails near my home and constantly come across people who walk two abreast forcing oncoming hikers off the trail.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    18,092

    Default

    The hiking etiquette standard and consideration I hold myself to is when showing up at a AT shelter or camping area in the rain after dark after 9 pm I expect the shelter to be full or near capacity in the early fall especially in NPs so I anticipate camping away from the shelter or others. When others are already not stirring in their tents after 9 pm it's time for me to not use the facilities directly near them or only do so with consideration.

    When I know ignorance is involved it helps me to understand the situation but it does not excuses one's behavior even my own ignorance.

    Seems you met someone who genuinely considers his behavior having impact on others.

  9. #9

    Default

    My question to myself is always "would the guy next to me mind me doing "this""? If I don't know I just ask, nothing wrong with ever saying - hey man I don't know if this is cool or not but I want to dot dot dot...is that ok?
    Trail Miles: 4,090.3 - AT Trips: 71
    AT Map 1: 2004.8
    AT Map 2: 265.0
    Sheltowee Trace Map: 116.0
    BMT Map: 57.7
    Pinhoti Trail Map: 31.5

  10. #10

    Default

    Sad to say, but there needs to be a sign which says "No tents in the huts". $10,000 fine and 10 years in jail for 1st violation.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  11. #11

    Default

    I find the occupancy ratings for shelters being posted on their walls and in the guidebooks VERY helpful in this regard. If the shelter shelters six and three people have sprawled out taking it over well, don't blame me cause your reeling it in and moving over. Conversely, if the shelter shelters six and seven people are in there well, hope you're packing a tent. I like shelters - they draw the crowds away from the best campsites, and if you're looking for a spirited get-together you know just where to look! Full disclosure: I waited out a whopper snow storm three days in the Black Gap shelter with my tent up and my tarp across the shelter front. It was January and I was alone. Situation dictates.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-18-2010
    Location
    NJ
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,133
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tagg View Post
    It has also given me pause to consider that sometimes when somebody throws their trash in the fire pit or washes their dishes in a spring or does something else ridiculous like that, maybe they're just ignorant and not actually an a-hole? Food for thought.
    often times,though perhaps not always, going off and doing something without first educating yourself on how to do it at least somewhat properly, is, IMO, being an a-hole. especially when your ignorance adversely impacts others.

    still though, good for this guy for at least being able to learn. not something everyone can say.plenty of people will always think they can do whatever they want with the shelter if they're there first.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-27-2015
    Location
    Parkersburg, WV
    Age
    47
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Here's what I'd done, and I've done it before. I would have said, "my guide book and other guidebooks indicate this is a [insert number here] shelter and because of your tent(s) there is not room for that number of hikers, so ya'll got to pack up those tents." I might have thrown in a "I saw a bunch of other hikers earlier and they might be headed here too." Then I point over to the tenting ground and say, "that's where tents go." Thanks.

    Inexperienced folks don't understand that hikers often come in late to shelters, and the worse the weather is the more likely that will occur because, like the OP said, if it's raining then one keeps on walking.

    I have arrived at shelters after midnight on several occasions, and I am always very relieved to find a space for my pad, usually up top. I would wake a shelter-tenter in the middle of the night if there were no space, or maybe ask if I could cuddle up in their tent with them. I get very cranky about people being inconsiderate and selfish.

    One time I rolled in for breakfast at a shelter at about 7 a.m. -- I'd already hiked probably 2 hours, not unusual for me. There was a tent in the shelter. The dip-****s inside were too scared to look out or even say hi. I know they were in there. I heard them whispering, "oh my god we're going to die," or something. I said hello. I sat and made coffee and chomped as loudly as I could on my breakfast. Very strange.


    shelter tenter.JPG

  14. #14

    Default

    So you show up at the shelter after dark and sit at the picnic table in front of the shelter while your buddy loudly complains that the shelter is full? Really. It sounds to me like you were the ones lacking etiquette and consideration for others. Did you really think that showing up late and in the rain after dark (9pm is bedtime for many hikers) that it was OK to wake them all up and they would just graciously offer to make room for you?

    If its raining and I were using a shelter and it got to be 830 to 845 I'd be thinking "cool, nobody else is coming, I'm going to spread out and use the space available."

    You had no right to any space in that shelter, and you ended up doing what you should have: use the shelter you carried with you. Your friend was the jerk for complaining about it and waking everybody else up.

  15. #15
    Registered User -Rush-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    05-10-2016
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    500
    Journal Entries
    3
    Images
    1

    Default

    It's too bad they don't teach hiker etiquette at REI. One thing I've learned is not to expect anything on the trail except what I myself can provide. This is especially true in high traffic areas like SNP.
    "Though I have lost the intimacy with the seasons since my hike, I retain the sense of perfect order, of graceful succession and surrender, and of the bold brilliance of fall leaves as they yield to death." - David Brill

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-01-2011
    Location
    Hendricks Cty, Indiana
    Age
    66
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Sad to say, but there needs to be a sign which says "No tents in the huts". $10,000 fine and 10 years in jail for 1st violation.
    How about revoking their tenting license with a 10-year probation?

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-18-2010
    Location
    NJ
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,133
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post

    You had no right to any space in that shelter

    and no one has any right to take up more space than the space that is intended for one person to occupy. time of day is irrelevant.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    07-25-2015
    Location
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Age
    55
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    You had no right to any space in that shelter, and you ended up doing what you should have: use the shelter you carried with you. Your friend was the jerk for complaining about it and waking everybody else up.
    So his friend is a jerk for expecting the shelter to not be full of tents? Or did you just miss that part.

  19. #19
    Registered User tagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-03-2009
    Location
    greenwood, sc
    Age
    48
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    So you show up at the shelter after dark and sit at the picnic table in front of the shelter while your buddy loudly complains that the shelter is full? Really. It sounds to me like you were the ones lacking etiquette and consideration for others. Did you really think that showing up late and in the rain after dark (9pm is bedtime for many hikers) that it was OK to wake them all up and they would just graciously offer to make room for you?

    If its raining and I were using a shelter and it got to be 830 to 845 I'd be thinking "cool, nobody else is coming, I'm going to spread out and use the space available."

    You had no right to any space in that shelter, and you ended up doing what you should have: use the shelter you carried with you. Your friend was the jerk for complaining about it and waking everybody else up.
    My buddy sat down at the table, said, "There are three tents in the shelter and no space for anyone else, you've got to be freaking kidding me." I said, "That's a bit inconsiderate," and then I went and pitched my hammock. We weren't whispering, but we weren't yelling, either. I would hardly say anyone acted like a jerk. And my point wasn't really that they should have woken up and made room for us, neither of us had any expectations that he would be entitled to a spot in the shelter. My point was that perhaps I need to be more considerate of where others might be coming from when they do things that I think are inconsiderate.

    Good grief, how is it that I write a post acknowledging that I may have been wrong to judge someone else's intentions, yet I end up being scolded? lol
    -tagg

  20. #20
    Registered User johnnybgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-28-2007
    Location
    Midlothian,Virginia
    Posts
    3,080
    Images
    76

    Default

    They should have keep their tents latched to their backpacks if the plan was to use the shelter. This shelter sleeps eight so there was more than enough room for hikers looking to bunk up...minus the 3 tents.

    For what it's worth ; try to learn trail etiquette on the off chance you might then teach others by example.
    Last edited by johnnybgood; 10-31-2016 at 21:00. Reason: Spelling
    Getting lost is a way to find yourself.

Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •