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  1. #81
    Registered User tagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    The problem is people who either throw things in an unlit firepit assuning that someone else won't mind burning their garbage for them or people who put things in the fire pit that don't fully burn ( in particular mountain house type bags which a lot of people don't realize are part metal)

    This is the type of jackassery we are talking about:
    Yes, thank you, this is what I was talking about. I also don't necessarily have a problem with washing things downstream, I was more talking about washing dishes at the source of a spring (I once found spaghetti in the pool of water where a spring came out from under a rock).
    -tagg

  2. #82
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    Inconsiderate vs. Ignorant?
    It's not always either / or.
    Often times it's BOTH.
    Wayne


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  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Inconsiderate vs. Ignorant?
    It's not always either / or.
    Often times it's BOTH.
    Wayne


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    And I'd just add that.
    ...your father was a hampster and you mother stank of elderberry!

  4. #84
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    The problem is people who either throw things in an unlit firepit assuning that someone else won't mind burning their garbage for them or people who put things in the fire pit that don't fully burn ( in particular mountain house type bags which a lot of people don't realize are part metal)

    This is the type of jackassery we are talking about:
    One of the first things I did when I started hiking was deliberately burn a used Mountain House bag at a shelter fire pit to inspect whether it would burn in its entirety. The next morning the fire was out and the ashes cold. I stirred the ashes and looked for any trace of the bag remains and could find none. I even removed the ashes and sifted through them. Nothing.

    I probably have only burned bags a half dozen times in a little less than two months and over 500 miles of hiking the AT. The rest of the time I carried them out. In those half dozen time I always looked to see if there were remains, but never as thoroughly as the first time. I have never found remains.

  5. #85
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    I arrived at Tri-Corner Shelter in the smokies in May of last year, still daylight and noticed a guy inflating his air mattress outside away from the shelter. I said howdy from around 15 paces away and asked if the shelter had any openings since you can only see the backside of the shelter from the approach. He put his finger over his lips and said "shhh, everyone's asleep, but it's better this way". I glanced at my watch, it was 7:00pm, still very much daylight. We talked quietly and decided that he was right, no partying noise to endure tonite and we all got a good night's sleep, the shelter was almost full with several tents set up as well. This is the only time I have encountered a shelter with that many people all asleep that early. No complaints.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    A group using a shelter is not informed or conserate, as they are explicitly not for them.

    Also if non youth sharing sleeping quarters particularly non scout in uncontrolled environment, they are in violation of bsa youth protection policies.

    Typical scout leaders
    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    Never miss a chance to say something negative about Scouts, do you. How do you know that the boys in the shelter with adult leaders weren't fathers with thier sons thus no violation of BSA policy? At least they didn't have their tents set up in the shelter.

    I say good for the leaders for taking their time, and probably also at their expense, to take a group of boys who otherwise would probably never get a chance to see the AT.
    Quote Originally Posted by tagg View Post
    To be fair, I will say that all three adults were staying in their own tent/hammock, and only the boys were in the shelter. Two of the boys were sons of the leaders. I've seen good and bad scout troops in my time, and this was a pretty good one.
    Just for Info - This line comes directly from the scouting.org website:

    "No youth may share a tent with an adult or a person of the opposite sex other than a family member or guardian."

    Notice they use the word TENT, not shelter - and that makes perfect sense. The reasoning behind this is to prevent two youth (that's the opposite sex part) or a youth and non related adult from being alone in a location where no one else may be able to know what is happening.
    Being in a shelter (or similarly another indoor facility where rooms have multiple people in them) won't provide that option to do something that shouldn't be done, knowing that someone else is either there or could be at any point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyGr View Post
    Just for Info - This line comes directly from the scouting.org website:<br>
    <br>
    "No youth may share a tent with an adult or a person of the opposite sex other than a family member or guardian."<br>
    <br>
    Notice they use the word TENT, not shelter - and that makes perfect sense. The reasoning behind this is to prevent two youth (that's the opposite sex part) or a youth and non related adult from being alone in a location where no one else may be able to know what is happening.<br>
    Being in a shelter (or similarly another indoor facility where rooms have multiple people in them) won't provide that option to do something that shouldn't be done, knowing that someone else is either there or could be at any point.
    People who arent registered and background checked by bsa arent allowed to be around scouts on scout activities. Even parents get background checked to accompany their kids on scout functions.

    Sharing confined sleeping quarters with strangers over 18 is a no no any way you look at it, especially non scout persons. Its negligent on part of leaders to even consider it.

    There must be separate dressing and sleeping quarters for adults and youth. Sometimes this means sleeping on opposite sides of a room. But a stranger simply changing clothes in front if scouts could be grounds for legal lawsuit if leaders allowed the situation to reasonably occur.

    Even worse if they were left unsupervised with a stranger in shelterwhile leaders slept in tent. that amounts to child endangerment when its someone elses kid.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-03-2016 at 14:23.

  8. #88
    Registered User theinfamousj's Avatar
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    I have slept in shelters. I have slept in tents. I still cannot wrap my mind around what a tenter is thinking, setting up in a shelter. The shelter adds nothing to the tent. The tent takes much away from the shelter. And for every shelter I have seen, there are always plenty of tent sites nearby.

    Seriously, though, the only thing a shelter is, is a replacement for a rainfly, at best.

    Those of you who tent in shelters or under the behavior... What *is* it that the shelter adds to the tent that I am failing to realize?

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    "People who arent registered and background checked by bsa arent allowed to be around scouts on scout activities. Even parents get background checked to accompany their kids on scout functions."

    Please site the document that states that scouts are not allowed to be around other people on scout activities or that parents need background checks.

    I've been a Scoutmaster for 10 years and this is total BS. Recently my troop visited the local indoor climbing center. The staff there took them for several hours, they were not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when the local park ranger took our guys on a nature hike, he was not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when they visited the local fire station, or a thousand other places. Why in the world would we want to segregate scouts from the rest of the world?

    And one more point. You take a group of scouts to public place, from McDonald to the Smithsonian and they need to use the bathroom, guess what, there are men in there with the boys. That's the real world.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    "People who arent registered and background checked by bsa arent allowed to be around scouts on scout activities. Even parents get background checked to accompany their kids on scout functions."

    Please site the document that states that scouts are not allowed to be around other people on scout activities or that parents need background checks.

    I've been a Scoutmaster for 10 years and this is total BS. Recently my troop visited the local indoor climbing center. The staff there took them for several hours, they were not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when the local park ranger took our guys on a nature hike, he was not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when they visited the local fire station, or a thousand other places. Why in the world would we want to segregate scouts from the rest of the world?

    And one more point. You take a group of scouts to public place, from McDonald to the Smithsonian and they need to use the bathroom, guess what, there are men in there with the boys. That's the real world.
    Check bsa regs.

    Adult program participants must meet same criteria as scouters for registered activities. This would include campouts and hikes, trips, and the like.

    This 100% includes parents, anyone over 18. We took care if this at first meeting every year.

    Of couse they can be around non scouts as necessary, theres a difference between visiting a firehouse, and sleeping with strangers in the woods. A public bathroom provided for necessary privacy, in a controlled setting.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-03-2016 at 15:41.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    "People who arent registered and background checked by bsa arent allowed to be around scouts on scout activities. Even parents get background checked to accompany their kids on scout functions."

    Please site the document that states that scouts are not allowed to be around other people on scout activities or that parents need background checks.

    I've been a Scoutmaster for 10 years and this is total BS. Recently my troop visited the local indoor climbing center. The staff there took them for several hours, they were not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when the local park ranger took our guys on a nature hike, he was not BSA registered. Or maybe the time when they visited the local fire station, or a thousand other places. Why in the world would we want to segregate scouts from the rest of the world?

    And one more point. You take a group of scouts to public place, from McDonald to the Smithsonian and they need to use the bathroom, guess what, there are men in there with the boys. That's the real world.
    Read your regs.

    Adult program participants must meet same criteria as scouters for registered activities. This would include campouts and hikes, trips, and the like.



    This 100% includes parents, anyone over 18. We took care of this at first meeting every year. If they even might want to attend a campout sometime they joined the troop and got the background check.

    Predators can have kids too.....

    Of couse they can be around non scouts as necessary, theres a difference between visiting a firehouse and slleeping with strangers in the woods. If you cant tell difference, im speechless.

    A public bathroom provided for necessary privacy, in a controlled setting.

    Arguement that "thats the real world" is baseless. You still cant allow a single scout to be alone with an adult, whether that adult us a bsa member or not. You are responsible for keeping kids safe.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-03-2016 at 19:29.

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    Double post

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    So I'm guessing they had their tents set up in the shelter in an attempt to dry them out? It was a rainy day as the OP stated. I only saw this once on my thru-hike and it was a small half dome style tent that didn't take up more room than a foot print...the shelter filled but no one said anything because it didn't take up any extra room.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rush- View Post
    Haha.. what a crock of BS. If you decide to stay at or near a shelter you SHOULD understand first and foremost that anything goes. You're not at the Hilton, and there are no "rules" out there. It sucks when people come rolling in after hours, but that's what you put up with, among other annoyances, when you choose to sleep in a shelter. If you want peace and solitude you need to stay FAR AWAY from the shelters. A lot of hikers pulling bigger mile days have the same rights as you do, and they likely won't be getting in until dark or around hiker midnight. So according to your self-absorbed viewpoint, these hikers need to move on unless it's an emergency? Absurd.
    +1...........................................

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    A big "no-no." Do not dump food scraps into a wilderness stream. Same for soapy water.

    Not to mention, but your downstream might be someone else's upstream.

    Besides, there's no reason to do that.
    100% agree with you, I started the AT as an absolute novice and after just a few days of seeing the water sources start to fill up with rice and noodles and cheerios...absolutely blew my mind how people could be so lazy, and again I had no idea what I was doing. This to me was as common sense as common sense could get.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangfire View Post
    If you show up after lights out you shouldn't even approach the shelter unless you are in an emergency situation. The same goes with setting your tent up, stay clear of everyone who is already set up and sleeping, there is nothing more disrespectful than waking people because of poor planning. It just blew my mind when people would come rolling up at 10pm and set up their tent or take a spot in the shelter, cook their food, hold conversations...still gets my blood boiling just thinking about it. If you showed up at 6pm and saw tents in the shelter you can just tell them to make room, no big deal as they will probably be sitting around eating anyways. But rolling in late...even if there were just 4 people without tents, now they have to listen to you throw out your tyvek sheet, inflate an air mattress, rustle around with all of your equipment, watch your headlamp bounce around for 30 minutes, that's just inexcusable to me.

    Not picking on the OP as you weren't going to stay in the shelter anyways, but to your partner and any future hikers who may find themselves out on trail in a night hike situation, be respectful of sleeping hikers.
    I agree, if you come in late be as quiet as possible and do your best not to disturb anybody, but there are no rules about when you can come in. Don't assume late = poor planning. I have started hikes at 8 PM because that's when I could get to the trail. I'd prefer to hike in a few miles in the dark than to stay in a hotel.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Read your regs.

    Adult program participants must meet same criteria as scouters for registered activities. This would include campouts and hikes, trips, and the like.
    This 100% includes parents, anyone over 18. .
    Wrong. The Guide to Safe Scouting states "A minimum of two registered adultleaders, or one registered leader and a participating Scout’s parent, or another adultare required for all trips and outings. One of these adults must be 21 years of age or older."

    It does not state that all need to be registered, in fact it specifically states that only ONE registered leader is required for a trip along with another adult over 21. According to policy you could go on a trip with one 18 year old Assistant Scoutmaster (registered), and one 21 year old or older non-registered adult such as a parent.

    And you didn't have to read very far into the Guide to Safe Scouting for this information, it comes from page 1.

    Your unit of course is free to have stricter guidelines but that is not BSA policy.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

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    In my view, most people who show up late to shelters have a pretty good system to unpack and stay out of peoples ways, having tents in a shelter is just plain stupid, and to give a quote about that, "“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    "In every walk with nature one receives more than he seeks." -John Muir
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rush- View Post
    Haha.. what a crock of BS. If you decide to stay at or near a shelter you SHOULD understand first and foremost that anything goes. You're not at the Hilton, and there are no "rules" out there. It sucks when people come rolling in after hours, but that's what you put up with, among other annoyances, when you choose to sleep in a shelter. If you want peace and solitude you need to stay FAR AWAY from the shelters. A lot of hikers pulling bigger mile days have the same rights as you do, and they likely won't be getting in until dark or around hiker midnight. So according to your self-absorbed viewpoint, these hikers need to move on unless it's an emergency? Absurd.

    Yes, it's true that anything goes at a shelter. That, however, does not mean that anything *should* go. There are jerks present in nearly all aspects of life, whether that's riding on the subway, having a pint at the bar, or standing on a street corner. A great many things "go" in a great many circumstances because jerks are thoughtless and rude everywhere.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    Wrong. The Guide to Safe Scouting states "A minimum of two registered adultleaders, or one registered leader and a participating Scout’s parent, or another adultare required for all trips and outings. One of these adults must be 21 years of age or older."

    It does not state that all need to be registered, in fact it specifically states that only ONE registered leader is required for a trip along with another adult over 21. According to policy you could go on a trip with one 18 year old Assistant Scoutmaster (registered), and one 21 year old or older non-registered adult such as a parent.

    And you didn't have to read very far into the Guide to Safe Scouting for this information, it comes from page 1.

    Your unit of course is free to have stricter guidelines but that is not BSA policy.
    Time for the two of you to take your disagreement to PM.
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