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  1. #121
    •Completed A.T. Section Hike GA to ME 1996 thru 2003 •Donating Member Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theinfamousj View Post
    I have slept in shelters. I have slept in tents. I still cannot wrap my mind around what a tenter is thinking, setting up in a shelter. The shelter adds nothing to the tent. The tent takes much away from the shelter. And for every shelter I have seen, there are always plenty of tent sites nearby.

    Seriously, though, the only thing a shelter is, is a replacement for a rainfly, at best.

    Those of you who tent in shelters or under the behavior... What *is* it that the shelter adds to the tent that I am failing to realize?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    I've never done this, as I don't like to sleep in shelters under ANY conditions. However, as somewhat of an explanation, I've been told by others one scenario that seems moderately reasonable:

    In Deep Winter (temps near 20F or below with brisk wind chills below 0F), when a hiker has not seen a soul on a trail for days, setting up a tent inside a shelter might be acceptable as it probably decreases the cold significantly -- as you'd be out of the wind. Especially if you put up a tarp across the front of the shelter. But even though you may not believe anyone else will show up in this scenario, if enough people do and your tent is preventing them from using the shelter floor you should expect to take it down and either set it up on the ground to use -- or sleep inside the shelter on a pad like they would do.

  2. #122
    •Completed A.T. Section Hike GA to ME 1996 thru 2003 •Donating Member Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salsi View Post
    In my view, most people who show up late to shelters have a pretty good system to unpack and stay out of peoples ways, having tents in a shelter is just plain stupid, and to give a quote about that, "“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    Shelters within a mile or two of a trailhead get lots of latecomers -- especially on weekends. Many of these people are inexperienced. They found that shelter on a map, decided the perfect scenario for them was to drive two hours after work, park, and hike in. I would not expect relative newbies to have a "system" of any kind, much less understand etiquette that many experienced LD hikers try to live by.

    Another good reason to stay in a tent far enough away from shelters that this sort of thing is irrelevant to you. Up to a quarter mile away works for me, and allows me to use the shelter's other amenities (fire ring, picnic table, water source, privy, etc.) and also socialize if desired. But when it's time to sleep, being near others (at a shelter or even close to other tenters) is not the best way to go.

  3. #123
    •Completed A.T. Section Hike GA to ME 1996 thru 2003 •Donating Member Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    You never know if someone is filling up their bottle further downstream. The trail (or a different trail) may cross that spring or stream in another place that you can't see or know about. That is why many people carry a collapsible bucket they can scoop water and carry to a different location. There is nothing more disgusting than going to a spring to get some drinking water or water to cook with and you see bits of macaroni in it from someone who decided to clean their pot there.
    I carry an inflatable dog bowl with me, available online, in pet stores, or even larger WalMarts. I inflate it to provide a vessel for soapy water for washing me and my cooking gear. "Dirty" water gets dumped away from the water source. Then deflate. Weighs little, takes very little room. Problem(s) solved.

    This isn't the one I use, but you get the idea...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA1p4Bf9_gk

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    Did I miss something?
    Dicks Dome...

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    I saw a solid half dozen tents pitched in Overmountain shelter , by thruhikers that had made it that far. Not weekenders etc.

    The biggest reasons I think, was there was plenty of room, and it keeps mice away, and keeps all your stuff together..
    Plenty of other thrus were camping near shelter and not in it, and several were sleeping in it, and not in tents.

    Most are just pitching their inner, not fly, etc. That would be dumb.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-05-2016 at 13:47.

  6. #126
    •Completed A.T. Section Hike GA to ME 1996 thru 2003 •Donating Member Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    Did I miss something?
    Hexacuba Shelter is in NH, not VA.

  7. #127
    Registered User Sandy of PA's Avatar
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    Dicks Dome in VA is very buggy, a new shelter is under construction up the hill from it just out of the bug zone. A net inner is needed to sleep in Dicks Dome.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    Hexacuba Shelter is in NH, not VA.
    You're right, Dicks Dome was the geodesic dome, the Hexacuba shelter is a long ways from there.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    Shelters within a mile or two of a trailhead get lots of latecomers -- especially on weekends. Many of these people are inexperienced. They found that shelter on a map, decided the perfect scenario for them was to drive two hours after work, park, and hike in. I would not expect relative newbies to have a "system" of any kind, much less understand etiquette that many experienced LD hikers try to live by.

    Another good reason to stay in a tent far enough away from shelters that this sort of thing is irrelevant to you. Up to a quarter mile away works for me, and allows me to use the shelter's other amenities (fire ring, picnic table, water source, privy, etc.) and also socialize if desired. But when it's time to sleep, being near others (at a shelter or even close to other tenters) is not the best way to go.
    This is very true about shelters close to trailheads, I was not considering that in my post. However I would never use a shelter that near to a trail head for the exact reasons you listed.
    "In every walk with nature one receives more than he seeks." -John Muir
    "Because in the end you won't remember the time you spent working in an office or mowing your lawn. Climb that ******* Mountain!" - Jack Kerouac

  10. #130
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    Kudos to the OP for sharing his experience that maybe we shouldn't use snap judgement when dealing with inexperienced hikers. Both he and the offending shelter hog learned something about life on the trail.
    From this thread (I've read this entire godforsaken thing), I've learned to stay the hell away from shelters, don't wash your food trash in springs and don't burn anything other that wood in the fire ring. Also, have some humility when dealing with people on the trail (and whiteblaze).

    Other than not tenting in a shelter (that horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp), what have you seen on the trail that has been inconsiderate or ignorant? Maybe I'll learn something else.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wormy View Post
    Kudos to the OP for sharing his experience that maybe we shouldn't use snap judgement when dealing with inexperienced hikers. Both he and the offending shelter hog learned something about life on the trail.
    From this thread (I've read this entire godforsaken thing), I've learned to stay the hell away from shelters, don't wash your food trash in springs and don't burn anything other that wood in the fire ring. Also, have some humility when dealing with people on the trail (and whiteblaze).

    Other than not tenting in a shelter (that horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp), what have you seen on the trail that has been inconsiderate or ignorant? Maybe I'll learn something else.

    Well, just off the top of my head:

    1) Hikers who let their badly behaved dog run off-leash. I've encountered many slightly aggressive dogs with the owner a hundred yards behind.

    2) Hikers who fail to yield right-of-way to on-coming uphill hikers. This is a basic thing that experienced hikers know and about which the inexperienced are ignorant.

    3) Hikers who have clearly taken a leak right on the trail, or who have taken a dump within 30 feet of the trail. Who wants to look at yellow snow or used TP?

    4) Hikers who arrive at camp in the dark and then feel the need to look directly at you with their headlamp when they talk to you. Turn the headlamp down or look askew when speaking to people who are already at camp.

    5) People who let their dog drink directly from the shelter spring where everybody else sources their drinking water.


    Well, that's about one minute's contribution...

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by StubbleJumper View Post
    2) Hikers who fail to yield right-of-way to on-coming uphill hikers. This is a basic thing that experienced hikers know and about which the inexperienced are ignorant.
    Not sure that this is a "basic thing" at all, nor that only the ignorant don't know this "rule."
    ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit..... Numbers 35

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    Not sure that this is a "basic thing" at all, nor that only the ignorant don't know this "rule."

    It is a basic thing. Google "alpine hiker right of way" and you'll see scads of articles. My observation is that weekenders are rarely aware of it, but anyone who has logged major miles with alpine sections knows that basic bit of etiquette (and yes, they also know to yield to llamas, horses, mules and donkeys). It's really common sense.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by StubbleJumper View Post
    It is a basic thing. Google "alpine hiker right of way" and you'll see scads of articles. My observation is that weekenders are rarely aware of it, but anyone who has logged major miles with alpine sections knows that basic bit of etiquette (and yes, they also know to yield to llamas, horses, mules and donkeys). It's really common sense.
    It might be a "basic thing", but passing on the trail is so highly situational, there are many times when it makes way more sense to do the opposite.

    Funny thread, threads like this really bring out the self righteous! (not talking about your right of way post, Stubble).

    Even though we all love this great pastime (long distance hiking), it can be really stressful out there sometimes, and the bottom line is that we all really have to chill out and give folks who "break the rules of etiquette" some slack.

    Sure, hogging a shelter with tents can be rude, depending, but so can arriving after "hiker midnight" (dark) and making a fuss. both should be given some slack.

    Best thing is to just relax and enjoy and don't get your knickers in a twist do easily!

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    Best thing is to just relax and enjoy and don't get your knickers in a twist do easily![/QUOTE]


    Well said sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    It might be a "basic thing", but passing on the trail is so highly situational, there are many times when it makes way more sense to do the opposite.

    Funny thread, threads like this really bring out the self righteous!
    I usually stop no matter what, uness they stop first.
    Often we both stop and chat.

    One bad experience I ever had with this, a scout leader (and new hiker) in our troop berated a passing group for not yielding to us when our troops met going opposite directions. It was embarasing because its so insignificant, and only a fool would get offended.

    Some people just have to express newfound knowledge.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-06-2016 at 12:53.

  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    Not sure that this is a "basic thing" at all, nor that only the ignorant don't know this "rule."
    Yeah, I don't know who made this thing "basic", or even why it is courteous to to do. If I'm going uphill, I guarantee I'll be the first to stop and let the downhill hiker pass.

    More often than not, the hiker with a good place to step aside (no rocks, cliffs, poison ivy, etc) is the one to yield.

  18. #138
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    uphill has the right of way is most definitely a "basic thing." it is, in fact, one of the first "rules" of hiking i ever learned. the fact that all of you are ignorant of it doesnt prove that it isnt basic, it proves that you are, as the person who brought it up would suggest, ignorant (as many are) of what is indeed a very basic rule of hiking etiquette.

    its like cyclists in any major city. by law, they are supposed to follow the same tragic rules as cars. stop at stop signs, red lights, not go the wrong way on a one way, etc etc etc. if 3% of cyclists have ever heard of any of this i'd be shocked. it seems the vast majority of them never have. that makes them ignorant. it doesnt make those things not the law.

    its funny, "we" are never the ignorant one. other people who have never heard of something might be ignorant, but when it us, well, if we havent heard of it must not "be a thing." funny quirk of human nature.

  19. #139

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    Id like to know who made it up.
    Because there isnt any rules.
    there isnt any governing body of hiking.

    some dumbass suggested it, and its been tossed around now and then by media since. They suggested a rule because they thought people were too stupid to know how to handle an approaching person by themselves.

    Its pointless
    Its stupid
    No one follows it
    No one cares

    road rules are laws designed to protect people, and quite different.

    Everyone agrees not farting at the dinner table is good. Thats what makes it etiquette.
    If people dont agree or see a need.....its not.
    No one agrees, or sees a need for this stupid idea, and so no one pays any attention.

    allowing horses to pass, makes sense , you dont want to spook them on a steep trail, or walk off it with the horrible damage they do.
    Bikes....you are definitely able to get off trail easier, and you really dont want them to drive off the trail anyway

    people...give me a break. figure it out for yourself.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 11-06-2016 at 16:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Id like to know who made it up.
    Because there isnt any rules.
    there isnt any governing body of hiking.

    some dumbass suggested it, and its been tossed around now and then by media since. They suggested a rule because they thought people were too stupid to know how to handle an approaching person by themselves.

    Its pointless
    Its stupid
    No one follows it
    No one cares

    road rules are laws designed to protect people, and quite different.

    Everyone agrees not farting at the dinner table is good. Thats what makes it etiquette.
    If people dont agree or see a need.....its not.
    No one agrees, or sees a need for this stupid idea, and so no one pays any attention.

    allowing horses to pass, makes sense , you dont want to spook them on a steep trail, or walk off it with the horrible damage they do.
    Bikes....you are definitely able to get off trail easier, and you really dont want them to drive off the trail anyway

    people...give me a break. figure it out for yourself.

    got to the grand canyon and hiked. it stressed there as part of the trail ettiquette. as another has said here, google it and you'll see as well.its a rule.many many people are ignorant of it. but it is a rule. i suppose one day if enough people continue to ignore it itll cease to be a rule.

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