I used thermos-like insulation water-bottle covers. They do helped but you can only carry so much water with them. There is a huge amount of effort constancy breaking snow, route finding, etc. Once you open up that lid, you boiling water is going to quickly loose a lot of heat fast. You can add mix snow in with the water and get a little bit more but it wasn't worth it. The snow would cool down the water I did have. It is a trade off. If you carry much water, it is going to weigh you down more and make it harder to break snow. For myself, I found the best course of action was to simple to melt snow by mid-day.
V/R
Wolf
[QUOTE=Wolf - 23000;2107144If you carry much water, it is going to weigh you down more and make it harder to break snow. For myself, I found the best course of action was to simple to melt snow by mid-day Wolf[/QUOTE]
It can beneficial to carry an ice axe, if for no other reason then to break through the ice in a stream to get to the water.
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Others may had their own experience but there was only one stream that I saw flowing. Everything else was FROZEN solid or under several feet of snow where it could not be seen. No springs, even the lakes were frozen to a point I was able to hike on top.
An ice axe could help chip out ice but normally it was just easier to just grab some snow and compact it down in the cooking pot.
Wolf
the article was in the GMC's quarterly "Long Trail News" magazine, as I recall I saw the story in a copy that was left in a laundromat in Pearisburg, VA back in April 2013...while I was on an AT section hike. It's been a while, but I think the LT winter hike in that story was done the previous winter 2012-13.
GMC HQ may still have it on file.
https://www.40below.com/products_det...p?ProductID=19
these bottles plus the same companies insulated bottle covers work great.
I would probably bring along 2x 1.5L's in the bottle covers and keep another 1L in my pack wrapped in a sock or something
but.. I have no intentions of thru hiking the LT in winter
1.5 liters are pretty big bottles. They dont fit in my pack's pockets.
Winter is the one time you do want to carry the heavy, wide mouth quart Nalgene bottles. And get insulated sleeves to cover them. I have two, one is thin and just insulates the body of the bottle for when it's not too cold and one made with 1/4 closed cell foam insulation that includes a cover to totally insulate the bottle for when it's really cold.
Follow slogoen on Instagram.
Alright guys, here we go...
I've done a fair bit of winter hiking in the Whites, my dad's an in-winter NH48’er, but I do plan on a few more nights up in the Franconia/Crawford region this weekend and next week testing this specific pack set-up out. Waiting for my new snowshoes to get in from Backcountry. Despite my speedy thru, my A.T. pack weight was actually around 30lbs with camera and electronic gear which allowed me to blog so thoroughly. I think this pack weight will come in around 5 lbs more than that. Total weight is a guess at this point, though.
We are planning to begin in Adams and head north, much for the same idea as you posted, we’ll get further up as the weather conditions worsen. Also, having already done the first hundred or so miles while white-blazing to Maine, we’re familiar with that region which might allow us quicker miles in the beginning to save up for slower days further north.
All great advice, Wolf. Thanks for commenting.
The details about water are definitely helpful, as that’s something I’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking about. I knew early on that my 3-season Sawyer Squeeze wasn’t going to cut it with the regular/full time sub-freezing temperatures. The benefit of the two of us hiking is that we will be splitting weight of the tent, each carrying 8oz fuel canisters, and 2 separate stoves. There will be a redundancy of critical gear.
My plan for upper body gear day to day hiking is a long poly underwear layer, a mid weight fleece quarter zip midlayer, and my Marmot PreCip jacket with the hood (re: snow falling from above) with a microfleece hat that covers my ears. I also have a fleece facemask/balaclava type to protect against frostbite on my cheeks. I’m strongly considering ski goggles as well for both depth perception and eye protection. Thoughts on the goggles?
I’ve got a strong plastic spoon I plan to bring.
Thanks Stranger! I’ve looked through it, and plan to again a few more times.
[QUOTE=colorado_rob;2106975]
First, I'm jealous! My wife and I were talking about trying this feat this year.
Of course this will be a total but-kicker and frigid cold a lot, but of course, that's part of the appeal!
…meaning maybe this concern is slightly overstated.
Timing of the hike: To get this thing done reasonably, I like the idea of the late December start; bigger chance of non-epic snow levels that early.
Excellent chance you could care less, and that's 100% fine. I'm just saying "for the record" that if you start in actual calendar winter (the 21st) and pull this off, you will have done something no one has done.
QUOTE]
Rob,
Thanks for chiming in. It’s great to hear that you and your wife were talking about the same thing. I know you said you hiked E2E in the fall, hopefully I can help provide some info for you for your hike next winter. I’ll be interested to see how the green tunnel syndrome is. It’s been interesting enough to follow weather patterns thus far, see photos of the Whites from friends (headed up there this weekend, so that will be interesting to get a first hand eye on).
Regarding timing, you bring up a fascinating point that I had not considered. I’m a records kind of guy, and I thrive on challenges. My A.T. experience left me with a 62 mile “day” (20.5 hours) out of Harper’s Ferry as a self challenge, and I typically would hike 30 or more miles each Sunday as a self-imposed “Sunday Challenge” just to keep things interesting. I know there’s some debate on here as to whether or not it’s on record of having been done before. I plan to call the GMC tomorrow and ask them the details. If it has been done before, I’ll start as planned on 19. There’s a deadline for me to finish (I have to be in Orlando the 15th of January) so 48 hours could make or break the hike. Need to be smart in that regard. If it technically has not been done before… well… 12/21 it is.
Looking forward to staying in touch. Hopefully the blog provides some entertainment and insight for you. Thanks again!
[QUOTE=Deadeye;2106979] I also have only one suggestion about gear: bring a CCF pad in addition to your inflatable. QUOTE]
My winter backpack is a Cold Cold World Chaos pack. The padding/back support is removable as an extra layer of foam under an inflatable pad. I think that’ll do if necessary as some extra insulation or as an emergency backup if need be! Thanks for your suggestion, definitely a valid point.
Rafe – I haven’t hiked the northern part after the A.T. heads to the whites. I appreciate the heads up, and will definitely be exercising caution in the unknown territory. I think that hiking as a team will allow us an edge with staying mentally sharp and supported during those tougher sections or worse weather.
I have the weatherproof maps, Guthook’s Long Trail app on my phone (hugely helpful on the A.T. with regard to finding shelters, knowing exact location), and will have a separate GPS app that I use while on Overland expeditions in my Jeep that will show my exact GPS location in relation to the trail. Yes, I know about electronics and battery in cold and all that. I carry spare battery banks for my electronics in order to maintain the blog while off the grid, so I’m not as concerned about losing power. We’ll be keen to keep an eye on where we are.
Thanks for the thoughts. Vermud be damned.
As I said above, it’s been interesting to watch the weather thus far this year, and I’ll definitely be continuing to keep an eye on it as we get closer to my departure date. I’m hoping that my GPS backups to printed maps will lend a hand at finding the trail when/if need be.
Your second paragraph made me smile. I too look forward to clear winter skies (we’ll be hiking between full moons, so it should be startlingly dark on most nights… I’m an astrophotographer so I live for that kind of thing) but the solitude on the trail will be amazing. Thanks for the well wishes, hope you follow along on the blog.
I’ve got shoes with heel lifters, Tubbs Flex Alps. I’ll be interested to see just how much snow we run into.
I had AT&T on the A.T. 2(almost 3!) years ago and had consistent 4G/LTE service up in the mountains. Hoping it’s stayed the same or perhaps gotten a little better. My pack is bright red, and Marmot shell is bright red. Hoping I stick out like a sore thumb on a white washed ski slope
Totally valid points!
If you have any links, I’d love to see them. Having a hard time finding any on my own aside the couple from 2012/13 who finished on the Catamount Trail instead of the L.T. due to it being “basically impassable” (their words via a Facebook post). My plan is to call the GMC tomorrow and find out what they have on record.
Regarding both of your posts, I have 2x the ultra-light Nalgene bottles, wide mouth with the fancy plastic inserts. Also have neoprene insulation covers for them. Minimal weight that add a little bit more insulation to the things.
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Texaco
GA-ME 2014 | April 4th - July 26th
Long Trail Winter 2016 | December 19th - ......
Endurance Adventuring / A.T. Resource Blog - www.2180miles.com
Okay so! That's pretty much all the big ticket thoughts/comments from you guys. I really appreciate everyone reaching out and talking to me about their experiences and suggestions. Definitely have been helpful and have pushed me to consider different aspects of my hike. This is a great community, and it's nice to be off the typical "next year's A.T. class" threads with everyone and their mother chiming in with silly information.
I'm going to REI tomorrow for some small things. Once I get my new compression sack (compressing a -15 synth. bag is a lot different from a 20* down bag) then I can get you guys some more stats on bag weight and actual packed gear. Definitely will be interested in all your thoughts on what's on my back.
Thanks guys for taking the time to chime in. Be sure to check out the blog, 2180miles.com, and register for the email updates if you want. I won't spam you with stupid stuff, but there will hopefully be regular posts about the hike itself, along with a few more pre-hike posts regarding gear and prep.
Look forward to hearing back from you all.
Tex
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Texaco
GA-ME 2014 | April 4th - July 26th
Long Trail Winter 2016 | December 19th - ......
Endurance Adventuring / A.T. Resource Blog - www.2180miles.com
Texaco, don't forget the corn cob pipe, coal for two eyes, button for nose, top hat and broomstick.
Happy Birthday.
Texaco,
Just a couple points. Winter hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS hike that can very quickly turn out BAD. I’m going to be brutally honest because this hike can end lives. First your cell phone app WILL NOT WORK. When I took my cell phone winter hiking in Maine (2005) full charge. While gearing up from my car, in less than 20 minutes I found my cell phone completely DEAD. Cell phone batteries are not designed to handle that kind of extreme COLD. Your extra batteries will be dead before you are even able to use it. The batteries I did find that can handle the EXTREME cold are the lithium batteries made by Energizer. I used a GPS that took AA batteries and map/compass to help keep me on course.
You are also going to need more fuel. I recommend using white gas, with the ability to simmer. Canisters have come a long way but they still are not burning as hot as white gas. Your stove and amount of fuel needed is going to be drain in two ways. First by the outside temperatures is going to require more fuel to burn than your summer hike. Two the ice/snow is much colder than the water you can get from you’re AT thru-hike also requiring more fuel. For your meals, figure on at least 30 minutes per/burn to include both cooking your food and melting snow/ice.
Your Marmot jacket is going to quickly become an ice jacket. When the snow falls on top of it, your jacket is going to quickly freeze while you are wearing it. The best thing that I found that helped was wearing a poncho. A simple non-rip nylon poncho did wonders. It was also usefully in helping keep me warm while breaking for lunch.
Finally, when I did my 1995 winter Long Trail thru-hike, it was before the Internet was even popular. I’m not aware of any link of other winter LT hikers. It is difficult to post anything from the trail because of the cold and the service.
Hope this helps.
Wolf
I've only done 10 straight days on the LT in the summer and it was more challenging than I assumed with constant PUDs and very slippery conditions.
Good Luck. If you are from NH then you hike 4Ks in the winter like I do and thus have an idea of what you are getting into.
Except the trails in NH are usually broken out. On LT it will often not be the case.
All the advice was spot on except perhaps the comparison to conditions that caused Matrosova's death on Mt.Washington. Matrosove got picked up by the wind like a kite and got injured by the fall. I don't believe you'll encounter that and if for the few places that will be exposed and windy there will be quicker ways to retreat back into the tree line.
Let me go
I'm still jealous you have the time to do this though
I've done a few winter trips to Baxter State Park. When the snow is deep and unconsolidated on the trails or munor bushwhacks it gets downright miserable. it's like swimming in the plastic balls at Chucky Cheese's
Let me go
Thanks Dogwood! I'm traveling with work the week before I leave, come home for 48 hours (my birthday the latter 24) then leave for this! I may not be carrying the pipe and coal, but I am hiking with a guy whose trail name is Santa so that will have to do over the Christmas holiday
Thanks for the quick reply Wolf. Please don't think I'm naive to winter in the mountains. First priority is safety.
I've been a big fan of the Max Lithium 8x AAAs since forever. I use them in my SPOT tracker, headlamp, etc. They'll also be used in our 2-way walkie talkies and should be great due to their -40* rating. Appreciate the input there! I hike with my iPhone in my 1/4 zip's chest pocket, so it stays close to my body heat at all times to maintain some consistency with battery life, then sleep with it in my sleeping bag at night to keep it warm with me. I'm very aware of the depletion effect cold weather has on batteries, and am fairly experienced with working around those issues.
When I said we'd each carry an 8oz canister, I hope you didn't think I meant 2 canisters to last the entire hike... we'll plan to get off and resupply our food and fuel as necessary, and before either run fully out as I sometimes did on the A.T. - this hike isn't being taken lightly, and neither of us are inexperienced hikers. I do appreciate your concern and suggestions.
Regarding the Marmot, I had it in sub freezing, hailing, snowing, every-kind-of-winter-precipitation-ever weather while in the Smokies and further south in Georgia/TN at the beginning of my hike. It performed without issue, and I never ran across the issues you're describing. I've also worn it repeatedly on winter hikes in the Whites (summiting Moosilauke at 5*, howling winds and snow, etc) without issue. I'll remember your wisdom, and if necessary will pick up a poncho if the need arrises.
I had no issues with service last time, and am aware that it may not be as consistent further north. All of the maps I carry on my devices are fully self contained and saved offline, so they do not require cell service to view/explore. If I can't blog daily, the worst thing that happens is that people back home get anxious to read about what's going on... worse things could happen, and it drives viewership through the roof... not a terrible thing
Thanks again for your input, hugely helpful.
Thanks for chiming in T.S.!
I'm self employed and have hugely supportive clients who love reading about my adventures and seeing the photos. Taking off months for the A.T. came at no expense, and I'm often pushed by clients to know when I'm going next and where I'll be adventuring. I'm lucky in that regard.
Looking forward to the ball pits of snow. Hopefully less kiddo germs.
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Texaco
GA-ME 2014 | April 4th - July 26th
Long Trail Winter 2016 | December 19th - ......
Endurance Adventuring / A.T. Resource Blog - www.2180miles.com
Texaco,
Followed your AT blog. One of the best I can remember. I still go back and read sections of it and reference it here on WB.
I lived in Burlington for a few years and remember -30 without wind chill in the city, a good 20 degrees cooler in them mountains. Not in December though)
I cannot image being in that type of weather for an extended period of time. You and Santa have some major cojones for sure.
Snow could be DEEP. The first year I was there it started snowing Dec. 1 and continued for 25 straight days. Shoveled my drive twice a day.
After three years I had enough and moved back home.
Consider a Whisperlite instead of a canister stove. Carry a canister stove for backup. Also rig it with a copper strip as it will work much better in the extreme chill.
Good luck, cannot wait to read about your trip.
Honestly, the thing I would be most worried about (other than temp and water) is the terrain. There are a lot of sections after the AT branches off where there are ladders/ropes to continue over a gap or whatnot and even more sections where I'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out how to continue down a 20 foot drop over boulders. Never snowshoed before, but I would not trust that the snow beneath me would not have air pockets in it. Also, I can't see how there will be a way to get over Mansfield. I recall a rock shelf that I had to get on all fours and I barely had enough room and that was after a rock wall climb. But, if you've done similar before, give it a shot. Maybe plan a number of bail out options.
Swiss-
Thanks for the kind words. It means the world to hear/know that people still have high regard for the blog and use it as a reference point for other hikes/A.T. information. I added a poll to some of the Appalachian Trail related pages on the site and there are a lot of people that use it for research for upcoming thru-hikes. The internet is an amazing place.
It will certainly be interesting to have exposure to those kinds of temperatures for any kind of time period, you're right.
Look forward to having you follow along with the blog again. Be sure to leave comments if you want, they're a huge moral boost while I'm out on the trail itself.
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Texaco
GA-ME 2014 | April 4th - July 26th
Long Trail Winter 2016 | December 19th - ......
Endurance Adventuring / A.T. Resource Blog - www.2180miles.com
A 100% valid thought, and it is something that Santa (my hiking partner) and I have discussed. We'll have bailouts noted in case it comes down to getting out of there early, or will be ready to spend a day in the tent if there's a severe reason to. The goal here is not stupidity and hope for success, it's safety and hope for success.
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Texaco
GA-ME 2014 | April 4th - July 26th
Long Trail Winter 2016 | December 19th - ......
Endurance Adventuring / A.T. Resource Blog - www.2180miles.com