Torrentshell vs Rainshadow
Talk to me about the difference between these two coats besides weight. Any of you used both? Info online is mediocre at best.
Even being a patagoochie fan boy I can't recommend the torrentshell as it didn't breath at all....I was given this shell and didn't use it if that tells you anything.....Houdini on other hand is one of my favorite jackets...not a rain jacket though...OR helium 2 has served me well for rain..Originally Posted by dcdennis
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Patagoochie? Chouinard sold out looooooong ago...Patagonia became Black Diamond and Patagonia became a freakin fashion clothing line. Upscale North Face. NTTAWWT, you just have to sort through a bunch of non-tech gear to find the couple of things that they still make that are the real deal and not poseur gear. Same with TNF. TNF still makes a few real things, the rest are just fluff.
That said, I do own the NanoPuff and an original Synchilla Snap-t pullover...
Let's put it this way...I own 20 times more Black Diamond stuff than Patagoochie...
Try Marmot Precip, if price is an issue. It still is viable trail gear. Their super mica membrane jacket works well but is a bit pricier.
I've had excellent luck/results with two Mountain Hardware jackets. Both are light, sturdy, breathable and waterproof. The Stretch Typhoon DryQ Core Jacket also doubles as a BC ski jacket for me. The other is the QuasarLite DryQ Elite. At MSRP, they are expensive. I waited and got them both on deep discount sale. $120 for the first and $110 on the second...I have had NO problems with any MH product....YMMV...
They did what most successful companies do....grew by offering a wider variety of gear/clothing to a wider customer base. With this said Yvon instilled his values in the very successful company that still operates by them today. Posers are every where....like you, I still have several pieces from 25 years ago that are still going strong. Actually sold some of them on EBay few years back for way more than I paid for them new......QUALITY...
I wonder if there is a market for 40 year old Hexcentrics? I forgot. I also have, somewhere, a Patagonia Rainbow T-shirt and a Patagonia denim long sleeve pull-over. The T is pre-BD and the pull-over is post-BD. Might have to look into the market for those as well!!!
Yvon was a pioneer and is a man of great vision, no doubt. Its just that as the years went by, the clothing became far less tech and far more town. Do they still make shoes? Remember that? Yikes.
No money to be made selling quality specialized gear to only a few
Lots of money to be made by selling image of brand to masses
Unfortunately
Even our best ul cottage gear vendors slowly migrate this way. Adding wt and features to broaden sales. Many going to people who want to buy cache of being light, but arent even close in reality.
No raingear is breatheable enough for activity, so get pit zips and a good hood design
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 12-11-2016 at 06:00.
I have Sierra Designs rain jacket with chaps. Lighter than the torrent shell, a bit more fragile although, I have no holes on it. Doesn't breathe. If money is no object try the M10 anorak from Patagonia or one of the RAB anoraks. Great shells coupled with a mid and base layer
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I love Patagoochi.... stand behind their product with an iron-clad guarantee. I assume they can afford to do so because of all the non-technical users who buy their stuff to support us outdoor gear geeks.
I'm far from a clothing tweaker.... still wearing clothing I had in college 30-years ago.
But back to rain shells... I have the Marmot Precip and I like the design. It isn't the lightest but it is a good rain jacket for a fair price.
I admittedly know little of Patagonia's or BD history.
Your post made me want to know a little more.
I don't care enough to delve into either company but with a short quick search of Patagonia and Chouinard via Wiki, your information might be incorrect.
It appears to be two separate companies, once one, broken up due to bankruptcy.
I like some of BD climbing gear.
I like some of Patagonia outdoor clothing.
P has a great warranty, BD, not so much.
Mountain Hardware is owned by Columbia.
IIRC, in the late 70's Patagonia had to file for bankruptcy and was split up. The employees bought out the hard goods line and started Black Diamond. Chouinard kept the soft goods line and the name "Patagonia". Mountain Hardwear was started by Sierra Designs employees. MH has the best climbers and ski mountaineers in the world under their sponsorship...Ed Viesturs, Andrew McClean, and Ueli Steck. Their gear is not at all poseur, its the real deal. Their DryQElite is the best WP/B gear around. They invented it. Columbia only owns them, MH operates as their own concern and entity.
P has a great warranty because...its only clothing with a huge markup. BD is mostly hardware for climbers. That stuff doesn't fail or you won't be in business long. And, what warranty would you need? "My harness failed!" said no climber alive...... That said, their headlamps suck badly and they know it, but won't stand by them. Which, has made me re-think purchasing anything that BD doesn't actually design and manufacture themselves...those Chinese headlamps suck horrifically. Absolute epic fail and BD won't stand by this POS and give money back. I should have bought them through REI instead of STP...just sayin...
I want to smoke what you have!
I too have read wiki that you quoted, almost exactly..good on you.
Chouinard decided to declare bankruptcy to save his company, you would have done the same.
He was not a sell out.
Regarding MH. You mention the best climbers in the world yet you fail to mention that they are paid to wear their gear. Of course they will praise their employer.
The least waterproof rain gear I own is a waterproof jacket from MH that they clam, the best. Garment wetted out within minutes.
DryQElite is no more impressive as any other breathable bs on the market today.
I don't understand your hate for patty or your love for companies, BD and MH that, in my experience are mediocre at best.
First of all, you don't know your stuff or your history. None of this is from Wikki. I know some of the original employees at the time of the split. I know Pat employees after the split, including department heads. If you dispute my claim that Yvon sold out, so be it. He ran the company into the ground, even though it had the best climbing pro out there, the best reputation in the industry, and a revered climber/visionary at the helm(himself). Then he got sidetracked with shoes and flyfishing. Seriously. He owed the employees a ton of money, so it wasn't difficult for them to wrest the hard goods away from Pat during bankruptcy. Pat, after bankruptcy, was just a name for clothing. It still is. Pat doesn't make climbing pro. Hasn't for 40 years. The vast majority of their clothing is non-technical. Glad you love them. Good for you.
Then you go on to dis BD as mediocre. Clearly, you don't climb. I doubt you randonee. Since you don't climb or randonee, discussing BD with you is pointless. You probably think BD is mediocre because you pay a ton for their product. Which is almost universally overbuilt, hence the cost. When you have some experience with climbing pro and innovations in climbing pro, give me a jingle....
Now, about your bullcrap regarding Ed Viesturs, Andrew McLean and Ueli Steck wearing MH just because they are paid to. Do you even know any of the three? No? Then you don't know your BD history AT ALL. And, to imply that they would climb in crap gear just because they are paid to is a freaking joke. You, obviously, don't climb and are not an alpinist. Their rep is everything(although Andrew is also one of the great hard gear pro designers in the world) and they won't sell it for crap. I'm just sure you could convince Andrew to ski down any one of his more than 100 first descents in a pair of Volants if you paid him. I'm sure you could convince Ueli to set a new speed record up the Eiger wearing a jacket that leaks and doesn't breathe. Not. None of these elite of the elite are going to risk anything on inferior gear, no matter the money. They wear what sponsors them, from underwear to skis to ice axes. If they didn't believe in it, they wouldn't allow themselves to be sponsored by it. Climbing is a very insular sport. It aint the freakin NFL. Elite climbers don't shill crap products. They don't do infomercials or HSN. You have essentially called the world's three greatest mountaineers whores. Shame on you.
Then you claim that all WB/B is bs and DryQElite is no different than any other. Bullcrap. DryQElite is eVent with different far superior surrounding fabric. Is eVent crap? I guess you prefer to hike in PVC, to insure you don't get wet....
Finally, you dis MH because you claim to have had a bad experience with one of their gear. Guess how I know you aren't being completely truthful? Because MH has a lifetime warranty and is customer-satisfaction driven. You would have gotten a replacement or your money towards any other MH gear. That's how MH works. Anytime the jacket failed to perform as advertised. For your entire life or the demise of MH, whichever comes first....
MH costs half of what Pat does for the same or superior gear with the same warranty. Seems like a no-brainer...but....if you feel better spending more for the same or less, go for it. Not very Swiss-like.
Tschuss!
As convenient as it is to bash patagonia, their stuff can be obtained at good discount and it lasts, has superior stitching and great warranry. Their clothing is designed for specialized sports first while it looks great too.
Let me go
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