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  1. #81
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Scudder,
    Where did this come from: "not the place to be digging 40' trenches"? 40 FOOT trenches? I hope that is a typo. That is not how pipelines are laid. I've watched several being constructed (at least 1 less than a mile from my home) since Hurricane Katrina permanently relocated me to Texas. The trench is just slightly wider than the pipe.
    If you want to talk about disasters, look up Katrina.
    Wayne



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  2. #82
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    ok , you need at least a 42 inch wide trench to bury a 42 inch wide pipe . maybe a bit more . unless you can dig a crazy accurate straight line in all sorts of terrain. These pipes are 40 feet long, and they are hauled in by truck so thats why the right of way is 75 ' ( and this part is not a typo).You need a service road and anything on the surface for an area 75 feet wide gets scraped off by machinery . Its a huge gutter in the earth draining somewhere and bringing sediment with it. Not good for the adjacent trout stream. or the wildlife that relies on unfragmented habitat. Even after the pipe is laid and the surface graded to accept the grass, this newly made cut is a highway for invasives, further pressuring fragile ecozones and species.
    I'm not sure if you think the AT is a only footpath or the communities it runs through. This pipeline is a disaster for clean water. Its meant to deliver fracked gas to coastal terminals for export, not to serve the communities that it runs through. Somebody referenced Wintergreen. They're projecting taking a large hit financially if this pipeline gets built. Something about devaluing their million dollar views and people not wanting to vacation in an industrial zone while the project is built.The primary business of Nelson is tourism. Lots of wineries , breweries, distilleries, ski area,restaurants, rentals and real estate. Pipeline scars are projected to be visible from 37% of all county properties. This will affect both tourism and local property tax evaluations. Folks here are saying "lots of pain for very little gain "as there are no plans to allow tapping the line for local use of the resource.
    As an aside, I lived in New Orleans once too. Got to hear Professor Longhair and a bunch of other great musicians. The Industrial canal was a big ditch that pointed the storm surge directly at the city. Wiping out the wetland filters compounded the problem.It really is all about the water.
    ,

  3. #83
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    pilgrimskywheel
    but let me ask you: would you like to live 500 feet away from such a potential - however unlikely it may be?”

    Can you show me exactly where any of the proposed routes lays this line within 500’ of a residents?

    pilgrimskywheel
    Does the ATC have any feedback for us on what is actually going to happen?


    From an earlier post this is from 12/7 It is an interview on NPR station WVTF Roanoke
    with Andrew Downs, Regional Director of Central and Southwest Virginia Appalachian Trail Conservancy

    FERC’s Pipeline Impact Statement Full of Errors, say Environmental Groups
    http://wvtf.org/post/ferc-s-pipeline...roups#stream/0

    V8
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  4. #84
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    if you go to Friends of Nelson.com and click on the information and resources tab, it will offer a menu which includes maps. I think the aerial maps are the easiest to understand.

  5. #85
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    Building pipelines with explosive capability on unstable soil is unwise. On the west side of the trail you have the Karst topography. On the east are the areas most heavily affected by the monumental rains of Hurricane Camille. Over 20 inches of rain in less than 5 hours turned mountainsides to pudding. Its not uncommon for big storms to set up shop on the eastern flank of the Blue Ridge and dump. The pipeline will be buried in a ditch. What happens when the ground supporting the pipe gives way?

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by V Eight View Post

    pilgrimskywheel
    but let me ask you: would you like to live 500 feet away from such a potential - however unlikely it may be?”

    Can you show me exactly where any of the proposed routes lays this line within 500’ of a residents?

    pilgrimskywheel
    Does the ATC have any feedback for us on what is actually going to happen?


    From an earlier post this is from 12/7 It is an interview on NPR station WVTF Roanoke
    with Andrew Downs, Regional Director of Central and Southwest Virginia Appalachian Trail Conservancy

    FERC’s Pipeline Impact Statement Full of Errors, say Environmental Groups
    http://wvtf.org/post/ferc-s-pipeline...roups#stream/0

    V8
    What questions are answered here? None. More unclear minutiae - you must work for the ATC: my donations in the mail! It appears that this issue, according to the ATC website, is all over but the crying. (That's an affirmative answer re: what is actually going to happen - their building it.) I'm curious how much exactly the ATC spent in donor's money to "strongly oppose" the pipeline and ultimately be completely "ignored". This is "stewardship and protection"? What it is is a colossal failure of those entrusted with millions of dollars of other people's money to do what exactly? File meaningless objections? In case anyone is wondering the ATC website offers a downloadable pre-written letter for mailing off to some muckety-muck or other so that you may "strongly oppose" the pipeline too. Unfortunately, the deadline for them to be snail-mailed in is - wait for it - TOMORROW! Good to know. File under: a day late and a buck short.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilgrimskywheel View Post
    What questions are answered here? None. More unclear minutiae - you must work for the ATC: my donations in the mail! It appears that this issue, according to the ATC website, is all over but the crying. (That's an affirmative answer re: what is actually going to happen - their building it.) I'm curious how much exactly the ATC spent in donor's money to "strongly oppose" the pipeline and ultimately be completely "ignored". This is "stewardship and protection"? What it is is a colossal failure of those entrusted with millions of dollars of other people's money to do what exactly? File meaningless objections? In case anyone is wondering the ATC website offers a downloadable pre-written letter for mailing off to some muckety-muck or other so that you may "strongly oppose" the pipeline too. Unfortunately, the deadline for them to be snail-mailed in is - wait for it - TOMORROW! Good to know. File under: a day late and a buck short.
    If the pipeline isn't within 300' of the AT then what exactly do you expect the ATC to do? THey really don't have a dog in the hunt. Do you expect them to fight every development that is with eyesight of the trail? If so then there are plenty that are a whole lot worse than a swath of brush and grass.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malto View Post
    If the pipeline isn't within 300' of the AT then what exactly do you expect the ATC to do? THey really don't have a dog in the hunt. Do you expect them to fight every development that is with eyesight of the trail? If so then there are plenty that are a whole lot worse than a swath of brush and grass.
    Um, I think you may want to re-read the article link in the OP.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malto View Post
    If the pipeline isn't within 300' of the AT then what exactly do you expect the ATC to do? THey really don't have a dog in the hunt. Do you expect them to fight every development that is with eyesight of the trail? If so then there are plenty that are a whole lot worse than a swath of brush and grass.
    They actually have a 3 million dollar dog in this FIGHT, and he got whipped. (As the pipeline actually CROSSES the AT!) Worse still, the pipeline dog's victory was never in doubt from what I see here. Why waste the dog at all when you could sick him on any number of other smaller winnable bouts? For example the trail magic issue which Director Andrews Downs told Outside Magazine is "...at the tipping point."

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilgrimskywheel View Post
    What questions are answered here? None. More unclear minutiae - you must work for the ATC: my donations in the mail! It appears that this issue, according to the ATC website, is all over but the crying. (That's an affirmative answer re: what is actually going to happen - their building it.) I'm curious how much exactly the ATC spent in donor's money to "strongly oppose" the pipeline and ultimately be completely "ignored". This is "stewardship and protection"? What it is is a colossal failure of those entrusted with millions of dollars of other people's money to do what exactly? File meaningless objections? In case anyone is wondering the ATC website offers a downloadable pre-written letter for mailing off to some muckety-muck or other so that you may "strongly oppose" the pipeline too. Unfortunately, the deadline for them to be snail-mailed in is - wait for it - TOMORROW! Good to know. File under: a day late and a buck short.
    Sorry not an ATC employee. Hell I'm not even a member, although it's not because I don't think their a worthy organization, they are. I choose to use my resources in other ways. I'm am certain, they will appreciate your forthcoming donation.

    You have absolutely no one to blame for your unabashed ignorance of this particular issue, but yourself. It seems, YOU have apparently only become aware of this situation in the last couple day's, but that is somehow the ATC's fault.

    Some of use have been involved in this issue for over 2 years.

    V8
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  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by V Eight View Post
    Sorry not an ATC employee. Hell I'm not even a member, although it's not because I don't think their a worthy organization, they are. I choose to use my resources in other ways. I'm am certain, they will appreciate your forthcoming donation.

    You have absolutely no one to blame for your unabashed ignorance of this particular issue, but yourself. It seems, YOU have apparently only become aware of this situation in the last couple day's, but that is somehow the ATC's fault.

    Some of use have been involved in this issue for over 2 years.

    V8
    Or, perhaps that it what you are meant to believe.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilgrimskywheel View Post
    Um, I think you may want to re-read the article link in the OP.
    UM sorry, you are wrong. please read this. https://www.ferc.gov/industries/gas/...6-eis/DEIS.pdf

    Or.... since you are all so willing to believe anything you read on the web. Go back and read the sections that I pulled out. That way you don't have to do any work. IT CROSSES UNDER via boring.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  13. #93
    Can you dig it?
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    ATC Comments on the MVP DEIS from 8 Dec can be found here, one of about a half-dozen comments on this project alone (and we do a lot more than comment)

    https://elibrary.ferc.gov/idmws/file...=20161208-5043

    Recent outcomes include the USFS pushing the project time table back to allow for additional environmental review.

    A note of irony: this pipeline is a few miles from the Columbia Gas Pipeline that we supported a few years back (an existing impact that could reasonable accommodate a co-location)

    -Andrew Downs - ATC

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger'02 View Post
    ATC Comments on the MVP DEIS from 8 Dec can be found here, one of about a half-dozen comments on this project alone (and we do a lot more than comment)

    https://elibrary.ferc.gov/idmws/file...=20161208-5043

    Recent outcomes include the USFS pushing the project time table back to allow for additional environmental review.

    A note of irony: this pipeline is a few miles from the Columbia Gas Pipeline that we supported a few years back (an existing impact that could reasonable accommodate a co-location)

    -Andrew Downs - ATC
    Hello Digger. What does that mean exactly? The giant bomb is UNDER the AT? That's different because a 1,115 foot blast radius is different under the AT? What have you done with the 3 million dollars you were supposed to have spent on "stewardship and protection" per year? You lost? Still no answer from you in honest stewardship. Are they, or are they not, about to cut the AT in half despite your best efforts? Why not just admit that people gave millions for you to blow it on field trips to see a lost cause? The ATC failed in it's mission. Dragon's tooth. McAffe Knob. Tinker Cliffs. The best effort of the ATC is a total failure? True, or false? Millions of other people's money blown on what? Zero? Deny it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktaadn View Post
    Solar and wind are the least worst options
    Except at night, both are very unpredictable in their output and must be backed up with a fossil fuel source.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilgrimskywheel View Post
    Hello Digger. What does that mean exactly? The giant bomb is UNDER the AT? That's different because a 1,115 foot blast radius is different under the AT? What have you done with the 3 million dollars you were supposed to have spent on "stewardship and protection" per year? You lost? Still no answer from you in honest stewardship. Are they, or are they not, about to cut the AT in half despite your best efforts? Why not just admit that people gave millions for you to blow it on field trips to see a lost cause? The ATC failed in it's mission. Dragon's tooth. McAffe Knob. Tinker Cliffs. The best effort of the ATC is a total failure? True, or false? Millions of other people's money blown on what? Zero? Deny it.
    You seriously must want to stay ignorant. You do realize this pipeline is about 70 miles away from all those cool places that you listed. Have you even hiked or know this area or do you just manufacture outrage based on Huffington Post.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  17. #97
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
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    Thank you, Malto, for all the excellent information. I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates it. Malcontents ( not a deragatory term) tend to be more vocal.

  18. #98

    Default A new low?

    Quote Originally Posted by pilgrimskywheel View Post
    Are they, or are they not, about to cut the AT in half despite your best efforts?
    Oh Good Grief! Cut the AT in half? Really? Exactly how does this crossing differ from the hundreds of other crossings, including highways where gasoline tankers and propane tankers cross hundreds of times a day, and rail lines, where petroleum products and hazmats cross as rail cargo regularly? Or how is it different than other pipeline crossings? None of the above have ever been alleged to have "cut the AT in half".

    It's "Chicken Little 'the sky is falling' " baloney like this which gives reasonable conservationists a bad name. The cause is harmed far more than helped by thoughtless knee-jerk reactions. Everybody is responsible for doing their own homework and not simply reading online propaganda and spewing it as fact.

    I strongly suspect some of the loudest cries are from those who have never set foot in the area of the proposed AT crossing and who know nothing about pipeline construction, pipeline operations, or statistical analysis of the various safety factors related to transporting natural gas and liquid petroleum products via pipelines and other modes of transport.

    AO

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    Except at night, both are very unpredictable in their output and must be backed up with a fossil fuel source.
    At night when everyone has their lights off because they are sleeping?

    I know that battery technology still has to improve to store the energy generated during the good wind/sun, but fossil fuels are dying. Everyone needs to accept that.

  20. #100

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    So many esoteric irrelevancies - where to begin? Forgive my incredible ignorance enlightened ones. My bad. I'm misreading the propaganda I guess. I think we can all agree however on a few facts: A gas pipeline is being constructed. The gas pipeline will cross UNDER the AT. The ATC is a donation financed organization devoted to the "stewardship and protection" of the AT. The ATC has devoted X amount of its 3 million dollar annual conservation budget "fighting" the pipeline. The pipeline, like other pipelines which cross, bisect, bore under, or other synonyms for intersect, is going to do so to the AT despite the "comments" of the ATC. Despite whatever dollar amount the ATC has invested in the "fight" the pipeline is happening and it probably always was.

    I've read the ATC comments and it appears that the pipeline isn't the only thing boring. So, as before, I'm asking: how much did the transparent ATC spend to have zero effect in the matter? To be, as stated in their own information, "ignored"? I write long boring complaint letters which are ultimately ignored to the ATC all the time - but I do it for free.

    Given the other serious threats to the "intended AT experience" recognized by the ATC now occurring on the southern AT in particular, wouldn't the apparently wasted resources squandered here have been better invested in supporting the PATHE Plan for example?

    Director Digger Downs stated: "they did more than comment"

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