"Massachusetts hiker, 26, found dead after Christmas Eve hike in White Mountains"

[One Half]

Why would it matter? In terms of preparedness or prevention, it's irrelevant. One really needs to plan for the worst. Which is likely what happened here, since it appears he made it to the summit and then a short way back.

One thing that hasn't been stressed enough in this thread (IMO) is the element of time, and fatigue over time. If you read Krakauer's Into Thin Air you see it played out. Climbers were too slow getting to the summit but failed to turn back. They were caught high on the mountain with all systems flashing red -- fatigue, weather, visibility, oxygen.

Chapter 8 of Following Atticus has a vivid, harrowing account of a walk along the Mt. Bond ridgeline in winter -- deep drifts, blowing snow and near zero visibility.

The story in Alive is worth mentioning as well. The ascent was harder and took longer than expected. The near-fatal mishap occurred on the descent.

I think it matters. If it started raining early and he kept going instead of turning around, really poor decision, especially if he didn't put on wet weather clothing to stay dry, or if he had on too much that he was sweating under his layers. If it started raining after he was nearly back to the TH, then questions as to why/how hypothermia set in so quick might have different answers.

[pilgrimskywheel]

equipment/decisions decisions/equipment???

nobody's talking about training and experience. if this kid HAD the equipment necessary to survive and didn't use it, that wasn't a decision. it's training/experience that let's you recognize the dangerous conditions and the onset of hypothermia symptoms to prevent them before they occur.

it's not a decision to stop and strip off your wet clothes and climb into your bag and emergency bivy once your hands are so stiff and you're shaking so bad you can't do that and even sophisticated knowledge fails if you haven't the training or experience to put things into use when the chips are down.

a good emergency drill is called "man in the creek", where you attempt to make a fire with crotch-high flames as quickly as possible -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEZlRy0lyZU

one of the smallest/lightest emergency tools is the Palmer Furnace, named for the cave explorer Arthur Palmer who used his carbide lamp held under his shirt to warm up. you can easily make a functional one with your poncho, a large trash bag with a hole in it for your head, or a mylar emergency blanket and a candle. a couple of tealight candles will work but not as quick as a larger one.

the idea is to sit on a warm dry spot (your pack), cross your legs and place the candle(s) between them and cover yourself completely with the trash bag or e-blanket. pretty quickly the temp inside will raise 20 or more degrees which should give you enough advantage to prevent or reverse hypothermia symptoms, allowing you to take more substantial measures for survival.

but again, you have to decide to carry this emergency equipment but even then, simply having gear won't help you unless you've actually been trained to recognize dangerous circumstances and apply life-saving skills...

You know what? Enough is enough. You don't need any training or experience for this totally avoidable situation that ended in pointless tragedy. Why? Because just like the old saying goes: "Even a fool knows enough to come in from the rain." You hike up a mountain December 26th in a rain storm and keep going you turn into a Popsicle - not really a shocker. How folks are still head scratching on this one is beyond me.

[rocketsocks]

You know what? Enough is enough. You don't need any training or experience for this totally avoidable situation that ended in pointless tragedy. Why? Because just like the old saying goes: "Even a fool knows enough to come in from the rain." You hike up a mountain December 26th in a rain storm and keep going you turn into a Popsicle - not really a shocker. How folks are still head scratching on this one is beyond me.

Because apparently he did have the training, he did have the skills (and Eagle Scout that hiked frequently) what we don't know is what he had with him...and ultimately what we may never know is what did he do with said skills, experience, and gear.

[rafe]

I think it matters. If it started raining early and he kept going instead of turning around, really poor decision, especially if he didn't put on wet weather clothing to stay dry, or if he had on too much that he was sweating under his layers. If it started raining after he was nearly back to the TH, then questions as to why/how hypothermia set in so quick might have different answers.

Per the article cited in the opening post -- they found Jack's body near on or near Bondcliff, ie. as far from the trailhead as one can be.

22 mile hike in the winter in the White Mountains, alone above treeline at 4500 feet, on the shortest day of the year. What could go wrong?

The weather, as described in the Globe article, was perfectly awful. I really don't know if there's anything in my kit that could withstand those conditions for long. So yeah, I'd have been at risk up there, just like Jack was.

I've stood on that ridge several times. In summer. Many different ways in, all of them long. More often than not, it's day two of a three-day hike. It's really the heart of the Pemi. Awesome views, very exposed.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Because apparently he did have the training, he did have the skills (and Eagle Scout that hiked frequently) what we don't know is what he had with him...and ultimately what we may never know is what did he do with said skills, experience, and gear.

Look, I'm going to ask an indelicate question here, but somebody has to: If he was so good - how come he's so dead? Experience and training mean you don't get out of the car at the trail head. You take one look up and go: nah. If he knew what he was doing he'd of successfully assessed the risks, and made the decision that would have saved his life. Nothing about any of this speaks of training or experience to me - it says the opposite. Discretion is the better part of valor.

[pilgrimskywheel]

And, what do you need to know about his gear? Whatever he had wasn't enough. Whatever he had wasn't deployed in such a way as to save him, or wasn't there in the first place. Again, missing the skills and experiences required. Probably the gear too.

[rocketsocks]

Look, I'm going to ask an indelicate question here, but somebody has to: If he was so good - how come he's so dead? Experience and training mean you don't get out of the car at the trail head. You take one look up and go: nah. If he knew what he was doing he'd of successfully assessed the risks, and made the decision that would have saved his life. Nothing about any of this speaks of training or experience to me - it says the opposite. Discretion is the better part of valor.

And, what do you need to know about his gear? Whatever he had wasn't enough. Whatever he had wasn't deployed in such a way as to save him, or wasn't there in the first place. Again, missing the skills and experiences required. Probably the gear too.

Im with ya, makes no sense to me...something is missing about this story. Could be as simple as he disregarded his training, or he may have had medical emergency, we just don't know yet.

[rocketsocks]

I try not to get to worked up about story's like these in the preliminary stage of investigation, not enough information out yet, so all this really is speculation.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I try not to get to worked up about story's like these in the preliminary stage of investigation, not enough information out yet, so all this really is speculation.

Not the mention the fact that this is a public forum and it's entirely likely that friends or family of the deceased will see these comments (as has happened before). Personally I'll hold off on armchair quarterback comments until the professionals who investigate release a full report

[rocketsocks]

Not the mention the fact that this is a public forum and it's entirely likely that friends or family of the deceased will see these comments (as has happened before). Personally I'll hold off on armchair quarterback comments until the professionals who investigate release a full report

yup, but like the Largay story, were 90 pages in, much has been said and the genie is long outta the bottle...it is what it is.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Yeah. What get's me fired up is the very real threat of over-regulation and accompanying fees. That the folly of others has consequences for the rest of us. I also am tired of the wide spread subscription to peculiar notions - like going up into the Whites on the shortest day of the year in a winter storm is perfectly acceptable behavior AND THEN there was an accident. That mishaps befell these many folks. There's not really that much to speculate on. My old pal Leslie the "Llama" had a huge old volume called "Death in the Whites" I think the title was. It was a record of tragedy in the mountains there clear back to the colonial age. What do they all have in common? They were good people who went someplace they shouldn't, when they shouldn't be there, often alone, without what they needed - including equipment, real experience, training, common sense, and most importantly respect, and they paid for it with their lives. Completing a thru-hike makes you an experienced thru-hiker - NOT an experienced survivalist. As a wise man once said the former "Is just walking" the latter, another business entirely. As far as I'm concerned every biped that walks upright is an "experienced hiker" so it's about time we relegate that term to the heap, as it is so vague as to be useless. The same could be said of any kid who grew up walking around all summer and camping in their parent's back yard, it don't make you Bear Grylls. And winning a soapbox derby is a skill useless on a mountain. Happy New Year!

[pilgrimskywheel]

Not the mention the fact that this is a public forum and it's entirely likely that friends or family of the deceased will see these comments (as has happened before). Personally I'll hold off on armchair quarterback comments until the professionals who investigate release a full report

Really? The public should honestly share the truth, and their feelings about the truth. We are expected to remain silent because we might be heard? Come on. You think his family is trolling WB looking for answers? A team of experts is going to tell us what? Yetis exist and they're hunting solo winter hikers in the Whites? We should yell: "Don't do this!" from the rooftops, and then just maybe this cats death will mean something if it stops one other kid from making the same mistake. The mistake being hiking alone in a winter storm in the White Mountains on the shortest day of the year with not enough stuff to survive. These points are not in dispute. It's only the like all the most ill advised moves a hiker could possibly make, and everybody knows this. And everybody knows why.

Armchair quarterbacking? Seriously? This is a opinion driven hiking forum for hikers. Is there another topic more important than how not to get tragically killed while doing what we love?

[lemon b]

Could have been me at 26.
My prayers go to his soul and family.

[Puddlefish]

Yeah. What get's me fired up is the very real threat of over-regulation and accompanying fees.

See, now you're just politicizing it to fit it into your own world view. We get it, you feel put upon and down trodden and the man is out to get you. Just the threat of regulation makes you insecure and boils your blood.

I've lived in NH most of my life, and never once felt threatened that the various agencies that maintain the forest were over regulating anything.

[Tundracamper]

How many experience climbers die every year on Everest. It only takes erring in one small decision that can affect the entire outcome. Doesn't that mimic life?

[Tipi Walter]

Look, I'm going to ask an indelicate question here, but somebody has to: If he was so good - how come he's so dead? Experience and training mean you don't get out of the car at the trail head. You take one look up and go: nah. If he knew what he was doing he'd of successfully assessed the risks, and made the decision that would have saved his life. Nothing about any of this speaks of training or experience to me - it says the opposite. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Your post reminds me of the Green Beret Creed, in part---

My goal is to succeed in any mission

- and live to succeed again.

I always think of this wonderful Pledge (part of a much longer creed) and how well it applies not only to soldiers and Marines and SF-types but also to outdoorsmen and backpackers. We go out in nature for long periods of time (the mission) and we wake up on the last day to come home to prepare for the next trip. We do everything in our power to live to go out again. There's fighting, and then there's fighting smart---just like there's just Hiking and then there's Hiking Smart.

[MuddyWaters]

Discretion is the better part of valor.

discretion is the better part of staying alive.

Vast majority of hikers and outdoors people are not experts at staying alive. They are just lucky to have never been seriously tested. Part of the lure of doing things in mountains IS that there is some risk involved. Mitigating all of it, is not possible. Focusing on whats most important, and when, ..comes from experience or intellect.

[pilgrimskywheel]

See, now you're just politicizing it to fit it into your own world view. We get it, you feel put upon and down trodden and the man is out to get you. Just the threat of regulation makes you insecure and boils your blood.

I've lived in NH most of my life, and never once felt threatened that the various agencies that maintain the forest were over regulating anything.

Well, as long as you're okay. I hiked through the Smokies in 2012 and 13 and it was free. Today it's not - it's $20 to hike through. $4 bucks a night to stay at a shelter, but as you are likely aware we're talking about Tennessee NOT Live free or Die New Hampshire. So what? It is an example of EXACTLY what I'm talking about. One of the best and most unique wildernesses in the country made into a real drag by real over-regulation due to overuse and folks being as stupid as they feel they have a right to be. The go to solution for bureaucratic nabobs is to slap a fee on it, and to get some under-qualified apparatchik puffed up with a uniform and a badge to collect them. I'm not politicizing anything, and my world view is I don't care to have the cantankerous old ridge runner follow me around the park to make sure I'm doing it right while regaling me with tales of other idiots he's had to herd through the park. Which is a completely true story by the way. Lets just imagine that some folks go hiking specifically to be left alone - not for the wonderful dialogue and constant social interaction.

[pilgrimskywheel]

20170101_112853.jpg Welcome to the White Mountains!

[rafe]

Lets just imagine that some folks go hiking specifically to be left alone - not for the wonderful dialogue and constant social interaction.

Says the most prolific poster on this and other equally contentious threads.

This young man went out of his way to avoid the most popular trails. This has nothing, zilch to do with overzealous rangers or shelter fees. He was in deep backcountry when he died. Ed Abbey would have called it a proud death. So tell me again, was it his right to die out there, or not?

I find myself in sympathy with the victim, to some extent. This was tragic. At his age I did some fairly reckless things that I survived at least partly by luck. I don't think he was a showboat or death seeker. I know the trail he was on, that kinda makes it personal.