What happened to HYOH?

[Traffic Jam]

I didn't realize that you started to work in retail.

Lol! It was one of those weird days...4 hours on med-surg, 4 hours in the ER, and 4 hours on L&D...talk about every spectrum of life! Welcome (or goodbye) to 2017.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Hell yes, I'd choose that to what I saw today at work.

Nothing for nothing my friend, maybe It's time to consider a different path?

[Sarcasm the elf]

Lol! It was one of those weird days...4 hours on med-surg, 4 hours in the ER, and 4 hours on L&D...talk about every spectrum of life! Welcome (or goodbye) to 2017.

Wow, that's a crazy day. Is your job designed to be floated like that or were they just desperate for staff?

[Traffic Jam]

Wow, that's a crazy day. Is your job designed to be floated like that or were they just desperate for staff?

if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

[Engine]

You rock. Did you happen to catch Mr. Wizard at the lab today complete with time lapse photos? Killer! Even Bill Nye dropped by.

You asked for the pics...

[Greenlight]

You rock. Did you happen to catch Mr. Wizard at the lab today complete with time lapse photos? Killer! Even Bill Nye dropped by.

The science still confuses me, but I always enjoy visiting from Bill Nye the engineering guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Secondmouse]

Why do I have the feeling you're about to win a stupid prize?

haha, yeah. arguing on the internet, that's pretty stupid. I'll leave you to it...

[lemon b]

Nothing. What others say is just that. HYOH

[pilgrimskywheel]

So, as it turns out in NH hikers (all hikers) have a legal responsibility to hike safe, be prepared, and be responsible. This info comes to us from the moderator - a Mr. Alligator. HYOH then, therefore, and so, doesn't mean do whatever strikes your fancy in the mountains and you won't be judged. Jump over the back fence with a loaf of bread and some tea in a squirrel sack and head for the White Mountains in a sarong tomorrow with a growler on some string and, you're wrong. Dead wrong. End of sentence, new paragraph.

I hate to say I told you so but, no I don't: I told you so. (That sound you hear is the crowing of an "internet rooster" LOL!)

[Alligator]

So, as it turns out in NH hikers (all hikers) have a legal responsibility to hike safe, be prepared, and be responsible. This info comes to us from the moderator - a Mr. Alligator. HYOH then, therefore, and so, doesn't mean do whatever strikes your fancy in the mountains and you won't be judged. Jump over the back fence with a loaf of bread and some tea in a squirrel sack and head for the White Mountains in a sarong tomorrow with a growler on some string and, you're wrong. Dead wrong. End of sentence, new paragraph.

I hate to say I told you so but, no I don't: I told you so. (That sound you hear is the crowing of an "internet rooster" LOL!)

Don't croon too soon. I haven't blanket endorsed your arguments. I pointed out the NH law that indicates hiker responsibilities in NH. The WMNF and NHF&G developed the program. I do believe people should be responsible safety-wise and environmentally as well. But my opinion is my opinion as far as hiking goes and is just one opinion among many. As a moderator, my opinion carries extra weight in regard to how the website runs. It does not have any extra weight in regard to how people hike in the real world. I make recommendations but there's no requirements that anyone hike my way. HYOH gets used in reference to situations not involving safety. Don't like slackpacking? HYOH. Don't like people drinking? HYOH. Like to hike heavy? HYOH. Like alcohol stoves? HYOH. Trail running HYOH.

Your opinion about not day hiking in winter in the Whites? HYOH. It's certainly legal without a pad, bag, or shelter and no mention of needing poles. Some alternatives ought to be in place as one's risk of overnighting increases. It'll be between the hiker and the state of NH.

It's still early in the fact finding to know what happened. No complete gear list, not enough information about cold weather hiking experience, planned itinerary, times and locations. The upside down jacket is a strong indication of hypothermia. But no medical report.

I hike solo in the winter. I've gotten dropped off in a whiteout at the trailhead. I was prepared. It was beautiful, I had a great time. I prefer overnighting vs day hiking and pretty much exclusively overnight in the winter. I do think that having all my gear is an additional safety margin for me. I have a friend on SAR in the Whites. Way more locally experienced there than me. He day hikes, ice climbs, snowshoes, backcountry skis. He doesn't always have a shelter with him. He knows what he needs and when to bail.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Don't croon too soon. I haven't blanket endorsed your arguments. I pointed out the NH law that indicates hiker responsibilities in NH. The WMNF and NHF&G developed the program. I do believe people should be responsible safety-wise and environmentally as well. But my opinion is my opinion as far as hiking goes and is just one opinion among many. As a moderator, my opinion carries extra weight in regard to how the website runs. It does not have any extra weight in regard to how people hike in the real world. I make recommendations but there's no requirements that anyone hike my way. HYOH gets used in reference to situations not involving safety. Don't like slackpacking? HYOH. Don't like people drinking? HYOH. Like to hike heavy? HYOH. Like alcohol stoves? HYOH. Trail running HYOH.

Your opinion about not day hiking in winter in the Whites? HYOH. It's certainly legal without a pad, bag, or shelter and no mention of needing poles. Some alternatives ought to be in place as one's risk of overnighting increases. It'll be between the hiker and the state of NH.

It's still early in the fact finding to know what happened. No complete gear list, not enough information about cold weather hiking experience, planned itinerary, times and locations. The upside down jacket is a strong indication of hypothermia. But no medical report.

I hike solo in the winter. I've gotten dropped off in a whiteout at the trailhead. I was prepared. It was beautiful, I had a great time. I prefer overnighting vs day hiking and pretty much exclusively overnight in the winter. I do think that having all my gear is an additional safety margin for me. I have a friend on SAR in the Whites. Way more locally experienced there than me. He day hikes, ice climbs, snowshoes, backcountry skis. He doesn't always have a shelter with him. He knows what he needs and when to bail.

Thank you for that feedback. I appreciate it. Our discussion from my perspective was in fact limited to the NH case in question, so I took your comments to be, as my own, narrowed to that scope exclusively.

I value the weight of each individual's opinion equally. Your's as much as the next. I was merely pointing out that your input was valuable due to the inclusion of the document of NH law attached in a thumbnail. Hard to argue philosophical points when there is a requirement for "prepared and responsible" hiking in the Whites according to law - hence my crooning.

As a point of anecdotal fact: I began my 2012 thru-hike New Year's Day in Atlanta, walked up RT 19, (I didn't know how to hitch then) and left Amicalola Falls on January 6th 2012. I was the 8th thru hiker to sign the book that year. The ranger pointed out to me that numbers 5 and 6 had been mountain top rescued by helicopter. I had 3 cracked ribs, a cauliflowered ear, and a recent concussion courtesy of the Ocala PD who don't know what thru-hikers are. I spent 4 days in the Black Gap Shelter with my tent set up in there expecting realistically to die. I was tripping with hypothermia and it snowed the whole time. My food, and fuel were running out. I had no map, and no phone. I called on all my training and experience to not die, and remember thinking how I'd be terribly rude and embarrassed to be caught dead in that rat hole. I had six dollars, a large army Alice pack, and sixty pounds of useless junk to survive with. I had no idea the AT even had shelters on it at the time. I had no business attempting what I did, but with luck, prayer, real trail angels everywhere, and real experience to draw on I squeaked by. Had I not been kicked out of Florida I wouldn't have dreamed of it. But, Ocala is no place to be a homeless hiker. I waited in the shelter near the Hike Inn intentionally until the weather cleared, and I was ready to go. These choices among many ensured my survival.

I'd like to point out that I specifically checked in at the Amicaloa Ranger Station to make inquiries before my departure. That I stayed the night in the shelter there. That I ate at the lodge. Returned during my shelter stay to eat and watch the weather. Restock on chocolate and the like. When the weather cleared and I was ready - with the awareness of many - I set out on the journey of a lifetime.

[pilgrimskywheel]

I'm not trying to denigrate the poor lost soul who died - I empathize. I don't sympathize. I'm really trying to admonish the living. We all have a rendezvous with destiny, and whatever your skill level, experience, training, or whatever you bring or don't bring with you into where we go - if you fail to pack your respect for these beautiful yet dangerous places - you'll meet it out there. Ready, or not. Luck has nothing to do with it.

Some days later I made it to Mountain Crossings. I spent 10 glorious rain and ice soaked days painting the new AT logos onto the floor of the store for Winton Porter. Pirate, Gabe, Squirrel, and WW were there. Lumpy, bless his heart, exchanged all the GI Joe junk I had for the real deal and I made Hiawassee in time to see the Pats lose the Superbowl. The most important HYOH rule I was to rediscover - keep moving. Magic and manifestation only happen when you keep moving north.

[rafe]

I value the weight of each individual's opinion equally. Your's as much as the next. I was merely pointing out that your input was valuable due to the inclusion of the document of NH law attached in a thumbnail. Hard to argue philosophical points when there is a requirement for "prepared and responsible" hiking in the Whites according to law - hence my crooning.

It is not law. It is a Hiker Responsibility Code. No ranger will haul you off the mountain for failure to abide by the code. Nobody will be fined or imprisoned. Failure to abide by the code may determine your financial liability for rescue, in lieu of a HikeSafe card.

Is the Code worth reading and understanding? Absolutely. Is it law? Not quite.

Here's a link to a story of a hiker rescued after a cold night on Mt. Jackson back in March, 2011. I only know the story because nowadays, she's my winter hiking partner. She's still peeved about the $7000 it cost her.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/03/2...on-mt-jackson/

[rocketsocks]

My life's worth seven grand to me, if I died my wife would kill me.

[pilgrimskywheel]

It is not law. It is a Hiker Responsibility Code. No ranger will haul you off the mountain for failure to abide by the code. Nobody will be fined or imprisoned. Failure to abide by the code may determine your financial liability for rescue, in lieu of a HikeSafe card.

Is the Code worth reading and understanding? Absolutely. Is it law? Not quite.

Here's a link to a story of a hiker rescued after a cold night on Mt. Jackson back in March, 2011. I only know the story because nowadays, she's my winter hiking partner. She's still peeved about the $7000 it cost her.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/03/2...on-mt-jackson/

Got it. Being less than adroit in your metier is not unlawful. Just hilarious and spendy, if not lethal. Thanks for clearing that up. I'd leave that whole $7K rescue tab thing off the resume if I was you - it doesn't exactly imbue me with an overwhelming sense of confidence in your "winter hiking partner". I bet she'd be REALLY be "peeved" if she knew you just shared that with everyone else who didn't already know the story! Don't worry - your secret is safe with all forty thousand of us.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Correction: I meant all 64,000 of us!

[Alligator]

It is not law. It is a Hiker Responsibility Code. No ranger will haul you off the mountain for failure to abide by the code. Nobody will be fined or imprisoned. Failure to abide by the code may determine your financial liability for rescue, in lieu of a HikeSafe card.

Is the Code worth reading and understanding? Absolutely. Is it law? Not quite.

Here's a link to a story of a hiker rescued after a cold night on Mt. Jackson back in March, 2011. I only know the story because nowadays, she's my winter hiking partner. She's still peeved about the $7000 it cost her.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/03/2...on-mt-jackson/

The hike safe law is a negligence law, a tort I think is the term. The state becomes an injured party, financial loss due to SAR costs. The ranger would be applying criminal law.

There are four important elements to a negligence lawsuit that must be proven:

1. The defendant owed a duty, either to the plaintiff or to the general public
2. The defendant violated that duty
3. The defendant's violation of the duty resulted in harm to the plaintiff
4. The plaintiff's injury was foreseeable by a reasonable person.

The hiker code is the "duty" (lol).

[lemon b]

Lets not forget. Many of us hiked (most of my hiking was pre internet) no cell phones, no gps, no internet. We learned on trail. For me it was a take what I need from hiker interaction. Leave the rest. First thing I learned was to respect nature as in fire pits to stay warm. Was a time we made em as needed. Thru conversation and observation we figured out we were making a mess so we just figured out some spots, made rings. kept the areas policed and tried to leave some dry wood for the next person. As far as hiking goes I see the internet as more of a problem than a solution. Get out and learn from like minded people. Find out what works thru actual observation and correction of mistakes.

[pilgrimskywheel]

I'm not sure this is a torts issue. Isn't there a prescribed discretionary schedule of fines and/or fees in these cases? Don't they just bill you for incredibly poor decision making. Then sue you in civil court if you don't pay for your $10,000 helicopter ride? Then get you with a bench warrant for non-payment?

[Furlough]

And the friction between differences of opinion, is where education is found....

Not for all. Having been more of a reader and less of poster over the past ~13 years here on WB, I am fairly certain there are those who shrink from the education process while staying insulated within their own shroud of stubbornness, arrogance and ignorance. And I suppose at times some could say this may apply to me.