Baxter State Park Thru-hiker Limits

[Starchild]

There really is no real option to dayhike to the summit from the gatehouse without a ride or a place to camp as the mileage to KSC is around 8 miles from the Togue Pond gate one way.

Th
Thru hikers are not above hitchhiking, actually they are very willing and able to do so. Unless BSP launches a campaign to not give rides to thru hikers, this will not be a problem, thru hikers are loved and their stories are greatly valued, a ride in is the least that someone could give them for that.

[Lone Wolf]

Ive read the appalachian trail section of the national scenic trails act a few times.

Not once, does it mention the right of anyone to thru-hike or have special concessions made for ability to do so....

It would seem simple to eliminate the Birches, route AT in the Togue pond gate, and treat AT hikers just like everyone else. Fairly.

Couple miles road walks, ksc reservations well in advance, climb the hunt trail to hearts content. Or dont.

The time is coming when gsmnp wont take the thruhiker load as well

agree...............

[Slo-go'en]

Most of the people here bitching will never get to Baxter in the first place...

[rickb]

agree...............

Probably doesn't say anything about taking private citizen's land witnout their consent either.

That would never happen at Baxter -- no way, no how -- but that Act of Congress does suggest that the NPS has more than a spectator's roll with regard to control of the AT. The entire AT, no matter some individuals' untested claims to the contrary.

Be that as it may...

Still not sure why a SOBO needs a special permit, and why one would be subject to a fine and expulsion from the Park if he fails to present his "special" card/papers to the authorities on demand while climbing K.

Sobos must make he same reservations and follow the same rules as everyone else, right? No Birches or special entry accomodations.

Is there some perceived "characteristic" associated with SOBOs that makes this kind of discrimination OK? Is it because they are more likely to be from "away" and skew outside the preferred demographic? However a handful of individuals chooses to define that.

Something is up.

[Starchild]

Ive read the appalachian trail section of the national scenic trails act a few times.

Not once, does it mention the right of anyone to thru-hike or have special concessions made for ability to do so....

That's the beauty of the AT thru hikers, they don't need that to get special privileges. People realize that these people are doing something that transcends society and bring a great positive to humanity and they have to make a offering of thanksgiving. This offering of thanks is expressed in privileges (some encoded in law) on the federal, state, local and private lands.

It would seem simple to eliminate the Birches, route AT in the Togue pond gate, and treat AT hikers just like everyone else. Fairly.

There does not seem to be that intention, the limits are set to preserve the Birches, BSP is just saying that they are taking a stand against the suggestions that they expand their thru hiker accommodations.

Couple miles road walks, ksc reservations well in advance, climb the hunt trail to hearts content. Or dont.

Or camp out at the gate, swipe all the day reservations before the first car arrives. This is not a solution, it's just BSP saying that they which to cap the numbers at the capacity of the birches.

The time is coming when gsmnp wont take the thruhiker load as well

Perhaps but I have not seen any indication and the current system as it seems to accommodate the number of thru hikers (much greater numbers / more concentrated than BSP) in their current system of allowing tenting near shelters that are full.

[LoneStranger]

...
Or camp out at the gate, swipe all the day reservations before the first car arrives. This is not a solution, it's just BSP saying that they which to cap the numbers at the capacity of the birches.
...

Togue gate is actually about a mile or so inside the park so no camping there. Hikers don't need a parking reservation so can't take them all before the cars arrive even if there are any unbooked DUPRs available. Totally agree with you about them saying that once The Birches are full you need to make other plans because they aren't adding more space.

[Starchild]

... Hikers don't need a parking reservation so can't take them all before the cars arrive even if there are any unbooked DUPRs available. ....

Can you explain this? Not sure from the words you use what you mean?

As for your other points, mine is that the way that BSP structured the permits it may cut into the limit of other visitors, so more thru hikers, less 'other people' will be allowed in due to this policy. As for when the permits are gone, the thru hiker will compete with the other users of the park, bumping them out.

I don't see how these logistical hoops BSP is setting up is going to deter someone who has walked 2000+ miles to get there. What they can do is charge for thru hikers more than they do, though that really does not solve the problem either.

[Lone Wolf]

People realize that these people are doing something that transcends society and bring a great positive to humanity and they have to make a offering of thanksgiving

ummm, no......

[Starchild]

ummm, no......

Evidence disputes your statement. You may not agree like it should be, you may not like it, but you simply can't deny it and stay in the real world.

[TJ aka Teej]

That's the beauty of the AT thru hikers, they don't need that to get special privileges. People realize that these people are doing something that transcends society and bring a great positive to humanity and they have to make a offering of thanksgiving. This offering of thanks is expressed in privileges (some encoded in law) on the federal, state, local and private lands.

Have you ever met a thru-hiker?

[Starchild]

Have you ever met a thru-hiker?

Many, I have hosted them at my home, gave numerous rides to, worked for ATC, and thru hiked myself in 2013, NoBo in the bubble where I met many other thru hikers. How about you?

[LoneStranger]

Can you explain this? Not sure from the words you use what you mean?

As for your other points, mine is that the way that BSP structured the permits it may cut into the limit of other visitors, so more thru hikers, less 'other people' will be allowed in due to this policy. As for when the permits are gone, the thru hiker will compete with the other users of the park, bumping them out.

I don't see how these logistical hoops BSP is setting up is going to deter someone who has walked 2000+ miles to get there. What they can do is charge for thru hikers more than they do, though that really does not solve the problem either.

http://baxterstateparkauthority.com/...servations.htm

That has all the info on Day Use Parking Reservations. $5 gets you advance registration for a specific day for a single vehicle. Show up by 7am and you are in. If they don't sell out you can just drive up and get access and they give out no show space after 7am, but getting a reservation is the only sensible way to go.

Again, none of that applies to a thru hiker with no vehicle wanting day access. What does apply is a very long and dangerous road walk if they need to get from Togue gate to the Hunt TH. Some feel as you do that hikers are magical folk who should be gifted with all honor and assistance, but I have to warn you there are a lot of folks with plates from a state to our south that drive very fast on the twisting and dusty park roads who will run you down if you don't leap off the road when you hear them coming. That is based on my personal experience road walking in the park which is far more extensive than I'd prefer. Not sure how they feel about thru hikers, they may love em. Just saying that doesn't matter much once you go under the front bumper

[Starchild]

http://baxterstateparkauthority.com/...servations.htm

That has all the info on Day Use Parking Reservations. $5 gets you advance registration for a specific day for a single vehicle. Show up by 7am and you are in. If they don't sell out you can just drive up and get access and they give out no show space after 7am, but getting a reservation is the only sensible way to go.

Again, none of that applies to a thru hiker with no vehicle wanting day access. What does apply is a very long and dangerous road walk if they need to get from Togue gate to the Hunt TH. Some feel as you do that hikers are magical folk who should be gifted with all honor and assistance, but I have to warn you there are a lot of folks with plates from a state to our south that drive very fast on the twisting and dusty park roads who will run you down if you don't leap off the road when you hear them coming. That is based on my personal experience road walking in the park which is far more extensive than I'd prefer. Not sure how they feel about thru hikers, they may love em. Just saying that doesn't matter much once you go under the front bumper

This seems irrelevant as thru hikers will not be walking, they will hitch a ride, that's what they do.

[Venchka]

Meanwhile, and I ain't saying where, there are empty trails waiting for a person or two to enjoy. With good beer, tacos, enchiladas and pizzas nearby.
Wayne


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[Lone Wolf]

This seems irrelevant as thru hikers will not be walking, they will hitch a ride, that's what they do.

no, they call for shuttles these days

[rickb]

This seems irrelevant as thru hikers will not be walking, they will hitch a ride, that's what they do.

Back to Abol Bridge?

I am assuming a Thru Hiker will be permitted to enter the park there (Abol Bridge) after checking in at the gate, and not need to get a special dispensation from Park HQ, right? Or not.

Of course if he arrives in late September or October (when he fewest number of people are on K, BTW) BSP might well have closed the Birches based on their Cap number. Meaning another hitch out of the park and back to finish up.

And this somehow protects the Hunt Trail and the Summit?

Or does is motivate Thru Hikers to scarf up the few remaining last-minute openings of 4-person plus lean-tos at KSCG with a call from Monson or even farther south -- much to the disappointment of hard-working families wanting a respite from real-life jobs that didn't allow them to plan far in advance.

BSPs plan is nuts-- and does a disservice to more people than just Thru Hikers.

[Starchild]

no, they call for shuttles these days

Perhaps, the AT is becoming more like EL Camino in many ways. Goodwill is becoming standardized in services which are discounted.

[Starchild]

Back to Abol Bridge?

I am assuming a Thru Hiker will be permitted to enter the park there (Abol Bridge) after checking in at the gate, and not need to get a special dispensation from Park HQ, right? Or not.

Of course if he arrives in late September or October (when he fewest number of people are on K, BTW) BSP might well have closed the Birches based on their Cap number. Meaning another hitch out of the park and back to finish up.

And this somehow protects the Hunt Trail and the Summit?

Or does is motivate Thru Hikers to scarf up the few remaining last-minute openings of 4-person plus lean-tos at KSCG with a call from Monson or even farther south -- much to the disappointment of hard-working families wanting a respite from real-life jobs that didn't allow them to plan far in advance.

BSPs plan is nuts-- and does a disservice to more people than just Thru Hikers.

From what I have heard of it, you summarize it nicely. But consider that the number of thru hiker permits is about equal to the number of spots/day at the Birches it is just them stamping their feet and saying that they are not building more AT thru hiker accommodations. It really does not seem to have any effect on the thru hikers as the limits at the Birches is already there.


Why BSP can't do something like make a second 'birches' a mile or two before the current one to help spread out the AT crowds, and even reduce the capacity of both from 12 to 8, well the mind boggles.

[rickb]

Another thing that about this scheme is that every NOBO who elects to play by the same rules as tradional park users -- perhaps because the have elected to summit with their family as daynikers or join up with them them at one of those great Darcey Pond Cabins -- will be counted towards the Cap.

Why is that, I wonder?

[peakbagger]

The abandoned state road from Abol Bridge to the park entrance road is not used very much, it can be hours before a car will go over it, it was close to completely unpassable to passenger cars until a landowner did a big timber harvest a few years ago and roughed it back to passable condition. They ran a road grader down the road and stripped much of the old pavement and got rid of the trees growing up in the middle of it. I don't hold out a lot of hope that its going to be kept open to passenger cars in the long run. Thus a thru hiker may not have the option of hitching this road. If they know exactly where they are on the Golden Road, they may be able to hitch from Abol Bridge to the correct intersection for a cross road that cuts over to the state highway that eventually dead ends at the park. There are numerous unsigned dead end logging roads that cut off the Golden Road with variable signage. A map helps but the roads change every few years.

By the way, there is an option in place for "hard-working families wanting a respite from real-life jobs that didn't allow them to plan far in advance" 20% of all sites in the park are reserved for Maine residents two weeks prior to the date so that they have a chance to go there without having to plan in advance. This is per Baxter's wishes. There is a similar policy in place for DUPRs to give Maine folks a leg up. Therefore the contention that they will be disappointed due to thru hikers is not valid. If and only if a Maine resident doesn't book a spot does the general public including thru hikers have chance to book the reserved Maine slots. Read section 1.1 of the rules regarding that the park has the right to develop administrative policies and procedure for the processing of reservations. If you look at the rolling reservations later in the season you will see the 20% of the sites that cant be booked. Once they get two weeks out they will switch to booked. The reality is that with some flexibility there is almost always a place to stay in the park last minute. Last summer two weeks prior to Labor Day weekend I booked a lean to at Abol on the Friday prior to the weekend, I would have had to switch to an open campsite for Saturday and Sunday night but elected to head to the north end of the park which had numerous sites open.

I realize that the prior poster is desperately trying to justify making BSP into an evil entity but its obvious that he is trying to do it without all the facts in hand. Its guess its easy to try to armchair quarterback a fairly complex administrative system from afar but it ends up garbage in garbage out. Instead of armchair quarterbacking spend some time at the park actually seeing how the system works. What you will find is that the staff is very busy dealing with day to day operations and spend a lot of time they don't have dealing with thru hikers. Its amazing they can pull it off.