Question about southern Whites / southern New Hampshire

[hikernutcasey]

All of my hiking on the A.T. is Pennsylvania and south with the exception of the White Mountains from I-93 at Franconia over to Gorham. We are planning on returning to the area this fall and I want to know what the terrain is like south of Moosilauke. We have a week to hike and I'm trying to figure out where I can start. If we begin in Killington it's 116 miles or we could start in Woodstock which is 92 miles. I know the last couple of days with Moosilauke and Kinsman will dramatically slow us down (we did around 10-12 through the bulk of the Whites). We normally do 16-18 mile days. I'm thinking Killington to Franconia is too much to bite off and it would be better to start in Woodstock. Is that doable in 7 days? That's a daily average of 13.1 per day.

[Slo-go'en]

From Hanover to Glencliff is pretty easy. The only big obstacle is Mt Cube and it isn't too bad. It starts to get hard at Moosilauke. The "dog leg" between the LT and NH is a bit of a pain since your cutting across the grain of the ridge lines and therefore a lot of up and down. And it's really not that interesting, just a lot of hard work.

[lumberjaime]

+1 to slo-go'en's comment on the "dog leg." It's also kind of a pain because much of the time you are crossing the valleys, you are on roads or in fields. Vermont's reputation of being the "green tunnel" is well deserved, but hiking through some of those fields under a hot sun got me feeling pretty weak. If you're planning to go in Fall, heat shouldn't be too much of an issue.

If you've hiked from Franconia Notch to Pinkham Notch, you're pretty much set. Expect at least 2 more mpd than you managed on that section. Give yourself some time (and enough $$$) to enjoy Hanover!

[hikernutcasey]

+1 to slo-go'en's comment on the "dog leg." It's also kind of a pain because much of the time you are crossing the valleys, you are on roads or in fields. Vermont's reputation of being the "green tunnel" is well deserved, but hiking through some of those fields under a hot sun got me feeling pretty weak. If you're planning to go in Fall, heat shouldn't be too much of an issue.

If you've hiked from Franconia Notch to Pinkham Notch, you're pretty much set. Expect at least 2 more mpd than you managed on that section. Give yourself some time (and enough $$$) to enjoy Hanover!

Thanks for the replies and based on what you're saying I think my best bet is to start at Woodstock and make good miles up until Moosilauke and treat it more like what we did in the northern Whites from that point on in. It stinks having to be on such a tight schedule but when you fly and try to get in as many miles as possible to get your money's worth it makes it a necessity.

[peakbagger]

By the way VT east of Maine Junction is varied terrain which I like but as mentioned its against "the grain" of the local mountains so lots of ups and downs. The AT does pass through a small stand of old Growth next to Gifford Woods State Park (an CCC camp based around Avery's concepts) and there are lot of nice older hardwood stands with big hardwoods (for northern New England). It is also the state where I first encountered stinging nettles at one of the shelter water supplies. There are some just pain brainless green tunnel sections but enough variety to keep things interesting. I happen to like occasional farm fields. Its easy to get lost in Hanover, the trail is well marked but there is sensory overload and the inevitable sugar buzz from Ben and Gerry's.

[Kerosene]

All of my AT trips were 60-220 mile section hikes, typically fit within a vacation from work, so I know the feeling. If you're looking to eventually cover the entire Trail, then I would do everything you can to avoid "mileage gaps" by starting each hike from one of your end points. Not every hike works out as planned, and if you have to bail out early due to sickness, injury, weather, family issues or whatever, then you have a gap to fill with an expensive trip at some point in the future. I had a half dozen short gaps to fill in from trips in the 70's that nagged me for years.

Yes, it will be tougher to start in Franconia Notch and head south, but even if you're in shape it is hard to crank out 15-mile days over that section. Shoot for a series of 10-milers to Glencliff, then ramp up your daily mileage to 15+. This way, you have bail out points at Glencliff, Hanover, Woodstock and Killington (there are others, but those are some of the easiest ones).

I did that section northbound in two different Septembers. Let me suggest the following itinerary:

Franconia Notch to Eliza Brook Shelter (8.8 miles)
to Beaver Brook Shelter (9.0 miles)
to Ore Hill Shelter (15.5 miles)
to Firewarden's Cabin on Mt. Smart (12.2 miles)
to Moose Mountain Shelter (12.4)
to Norwich Inn in Norwich VT (12.5)
to Thistle Hill Shelter (13.1)
to Winturri Shelter (12.3)
to US-4 (19.9; or stop at VT-100 at 16.6)

You could compress this by at least a day as the terrain between Glencliff and Killington is quite a bit easier than the Whites.

Here's to great weather and a great hike!

[hikernutcasey]

Thanks Kerosene - I agree with you about the gaps created by jumping around. We have planned ahead and have our last 8 trips laid out.

Follow up question...if my buddy and I are in good shape, again we usually do 16 to 18 mile days, could we make it slackpacking from Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch? The Notch hostel offers this service so I was thinking we could get picked up, spend the night in the hostel and slack the 16 miles across Kinsman. We would have approx. 10 hours to do it which comes out to 1.6 mph.

When we did Franconia we made it from the notch all the way to Garfield campsite with fully loaded packs so I'm thinking we could do 16 with no weight.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Thanks Kerosene - I agree with you about the gaps created by jumping around. We have planned ahead and have our last 8 trips laid out.

Follow up question...if my buddy and I are in good shape, again we usually do 16 to 18 mile days, could we make it slackpacking from Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch? The Notch hostel offers this service so I was thinking we could get picked up, spend the night in the hostel and slack the 16 miles across Kinsman. We would have approx. 10 hours to do it which comes out to 1.6 mph.

When we did Franconia we made it from the notch all the way to Garfield campsite with fully loaded packs so I'm thinking we could do 16 with no weight.

IF, everything goes according to plan, it's a plan. Can they drop you off at the trailhead at Rt 112 crack of dawn? On a good weather day? With good headlamps and extra batteries? With enough in your daypacks to survive a night out in the elements, you know - IF, IF, IF...? Just bringing up the usual caveats.

[tdoczi]

Thanks Kerosene - I agree with you about the gaps created by jumping around. We have planned ahead and have our last 8 trips laid out.

Follow up question...if my buddy and I are in good shape, again we usually do 16 to 18 mile days, could we make it slackpacking from Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch? The Notch hostel offers this service so I was thinking we could get picked up, spend the night in the hostel and slack the 16 miles across Kinsman. We would have approx. 10 hours to do it which comes out to 1.6 mph.

When we did Franconia we made it from the notch all the way to Garfield campsite with fully loaded packs so I'm thinking we could do 16 with no weight.

i've done it. what makes it doable is that a large chunk of the hiking on both ends is, by whites standards, very easy. however many miles it is from kinsman notch to the start of the climb of south kinsman is mostly easy, as is the couple of miles from lonesome lake down to franconia notch. its really more like 10-11 miles of typical whites hiking with 5 or 6 much easier miles thrown in.

[peakbagger]

Thanks Kerosene - I agree with you about the gaps created by jumping around. We have planned ahead and have our last 8 trips laid out.

Follow up question...if my buddy and I are in good shape, again we usually do 16 to 18 mile days, could we make it slackpacking from Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch? The Notch hostel offers this service so I was thinking we could get picked up, spend the night in the hostel and slack the 16 miles across Kinsman. We would have approx. 10 hours to do it which comes out to 1.6 mph.

When we did Franconia we made it from the notch all the way to Garfield campsite with fully loaded packs so I'm thinking we could do 16 with no weight.

I am not a fast hiker but did a very similar day hike one day. I dropped my bike off at Kinsman Notch and then drove over to the Mount Kinsman trailhead (which come in from the west side of the mountain rather than the east side). It ends up on the AT just above Kinsman Pond. The hike down from Kinsman Pond is about a mile further to the parkway than what I hiked. When I got to Kinsman Notch I rode my bike back to where I started. It was a hot day full of PUDS and is mostly green tunnel except for some views backwards climbing South Kinsman and on top of both South and North Kinsman. I was pretty slow on my bike riding back and still probably did it under 10. I went south as the hike up South Kinsman is brutal (I much prefer going down steep stuff then up). Once you are on top of South Kinsman its fairly easy walking most of the way to Franconia Notch except for a couple of steep drops which may have pin steps (Nothing compared to the pins steps coming down Beaver Brook trail (the AT) off Moosiluakee.