It has been done both ways.Originally Posted by Five Tango
You make the perfect example of the ignorant disrespect I referred to. This has absolutely nothing to do with the ATC, which is a fine organization as far as I am aware.
If it were nonsense then people wouldn't be so angry that they'd hang fish hooks along the trail to try to snag hikers. You probably have no idea what its like to have land in your family for generations and then have the government come in and take it away from you.
Are you defending the sociopaths that hang fish hooks across hiking trails?
The government has used eminent domain to obtain right of way to literally millions of acres for road construction, but you don't see people planting IEDs next to roads.
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So it's just the National Park Service that you hate? Tell you what, if you don't like the AT, then stay off it.
BTW Local governments establish property tax rates, not the Feds. But I'm the ignorant one...
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Make this emotional all you like. I made no comment about hating anything. Everything I said is true. I love to hike, love our national parks, and love the AT, but you are young and disrespectful and incredibly unappreciative of what it took to offer you the opportunities to walk for miles in those places. I won't ask you to stay off the AT because you feel that way but you can bet I won't stay off the AT because a young and arrogant hot head asked me too.
How old must one be to have an valid opinion on this internet message board? Eighteen? Twenty-one? Thirty?
I challenge you to provide one example where the NPS forced a land owner to accept a ridiculous offer such as $100 per acre, unless it was pre WWII, when that was the going rate for barren mountain land that had been clear cut.
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I currently own land where part of it was confiscated for less than $100 per acre well after WW II. The part that was taken was lost while the prior landowner owned it. I'd invite you to come out and visit this example you requested. It's a wonderful place. But I suspect we wouldn't make the best friends.
You have provided no evidence and I don't believe a bit of it. If a landowner isn't satisfied with the government's offer they have the right to go before a court to have the matter decided. Can't imagine any judge or jury would award such a paltry sum in a case involving a local vs the federal government. But hey, it's your story, you keep telling it.I currently own land where part of it was confiscated for less than $100 per acre well after WW II. The part that was taken was lost while the prior landowner owned it. I'd invite you to come out and visit this example you requested. It's a wonderful place. But I suspect we wouldn't make the best friends.
Also, I would have thought you were too old to be using emotions.
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Paying attorneys to fight this sort of thing is often not worth the Delta.
Back unimproved land. Probably sells for $390 an acre (a lot of it did). Five hours of lawyer time costs you a thousand dollars. They are only after 2-3 acres.
A one day jury trial? Two thousand dollars to fight the difference between $300 and $1,200 --you've lost money.
Maybe you are too young to know it's an emoticon, not an emotion.
Enjoy your hike.
So a local man is "swindled" out of $300-$1,200 and for that reason he plants spikes along a hiking trail to maim hikers? Got it.
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These people putting nails on the trail, hanging fish hooks, etc. are obviously disturbed. Someone correctly pointed out that this sort of thing has happened in the past on confiscated land where someone felt they still had a score to settle. It's only speculation that is the deal in North Carolina with the nails on the trail. Extrapolating to the point that someone is doing this because they lost a few hundred dollars is quite a stretch in logic.
juvenile behavior. a kid is doing it, or a guy who never got laid, or ever will.
[To add even more insult, go take a tour somewhere on public lands. Park rangers often call it "our land" and the need to take care of it. They also like to refer to the land as "bought by the government" or "donated" by the landowners (after their taxes were raised to make ownership unaffordable). Most people on the tour will nod as if they already "knew" this. It's disgusting to watch. The process wasn't nearly that painless and wholesome. The sacrifice of the landowners is entirely ignored.]
This does happen.
My favorite part of GSMNP is the North Shore area along Lake Fontana. This land was originally not part of GSMNP, but after the creation of Fontana Dam to provide the electricity for aluminum production during WWII, the land became "stranded" between the national park and the filling lake, which began to cover the valley roads that were the only access into the area. The local population, some which had been on their land for generations, had no choice but to accept the relocation packages and pack their belongings before their possessions were trapped by the rising waters. As additional insult, many cars were left behind due to WWII rubber rationing that left them without tires. The cars remain as eerie relics in the woods. The houses were burned, leaving only foundations and pottery/glass remnants in the woods - the saddest reminder of this population is the dozens of small cemeteries scattered throughout. The locals were coerced into leaving after receiving a promise that the government would build a new road to allow them to continue to visit and tend the graves of their families. Only after the people moved and the lake was filled did the government decide that the road wouldn't be built. It is a fight that continues to this day.
Likewise, my local NC state park is former farmland, forcibly purchased by the government in the 1930's during the great depression "anti poverty" measures. The rocky soil was poorly suited for crops, so the government decided that moving the locals into town would force them to abandon farming and hopefully pursue more lucrative jobs. To this day you can walk through the woods and see foundations, old roads, and daffodils popping-up around former homesteads.
I never hike in these places without respect for the families that once called these lands home - I know that most had no choice but accept a government "offer".
For over a decade, I lived in a small community located just to the east of what is now Shenandoah National Park .
Once I was talking to the father of the owner of my local country store about my interest in backpacking . He gave me detailed directions to his former home place, now part of the park. When I made some mention about his compensation for his loss ,his comment was, " How much would you take for an acre of paradise?"
He was one of several in the area who felt like the government had made an offer that he could not refuse. That said, I am certain he would be horrified to hear of anyone trying to harm others who appreciated his former home.
Why was your land seized when the previous owner had it?
Hiking the AT is “pointless.” What life is not “pointless”? Is it not pointless to work paycheck to paycheck just to conform?.....I want to make my life less ordinary. AWOL
if history has anything to say about how our government can treat people and land, just look at the native Americans for one example. I personally have had my land threatened by the government due to them wanting to expand a highway. Luckily a few people high up in the ranks of the township made a big stink to ward them off. The offer was far too low and even on the insulting side. not sure if this is what happened for the trail but it does happen in our country. I am thankful for the chance to hike on this trail and just hope not too many were hurt along the way. I hope the ATC continues to do a good job to try to keep peace between land owners and the trail.
I would suggest talking to Bob at Kincora on his take on land acquisition policies and issues with locals in the US 19 E area.
Folks do forget to mention that the rape of four female AT hikers by a group of locals occurred in the Bitter End area north of US 19 E of the AT. It caused a lot of resentment by area locals when the federal government acted to arrest and jail at least one of the locals who had committed the crime as the local law enforcement elected to ignore the issue despite knowing who had committed the crime. For many years there were very specific warnings to hikers about parking anywhere near this area. ATC was decidedly not proud of this incident and it took them a while to finally bring this to light. I expect that at least some of the resentment by locals against land acquisition is flavored by this incident.
This was the early internet era so I have been unable to find a quick link to the whole story. Here is old post from the whiteblaze archives by one of the survivors. https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/arc...hp/t-6185.html
And here is the text from the thread
As a survivor of rape on the Appalachian trail and survivor of a pathetic trial, and horrific media coverage afterwards, I do want to say that rape does happen on the trail. Yes it is less often than rapes that happen off the trail, and probably less often than rapes that occur in Walmart parking lots. But please don't assume that it doesn't happen, or that it must be some freak anomaly that could have been prevented if the victim had just known the right thing to do. This silences those of us who have survived this type of attack. Sometimes bad people are just determined to do bad things to other people...even on the AT.
Plus I have to say until the last couple of years we (I was with 3 friends) were shunned by the AT Conference for bringing bad press onto the trail. An official silent treatment was the response chosen by the AT officials back when the attacks occurred, (I even have a memo about it). They rerouted the trail, but then acted like nothing happened. So while we were being crucified in court and in the media for somehow being "different", since we were 4 women out hiking and therefor possibly deserving of what happened, not one person from the AT community came to our support. Even one quote to the press explaining that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for four women to want to go on a two week backpacking trip would have helped. The silence just added to the pain.
The current officials at the AT office in Harpers Ferry have worked hard on trying to right this. One way was by publishing an article this past july in the AT Journeys magazine. It was written by one of my fellow survivors who recently went back and solo thru hiked the trail. She describes how much her thru hike empowered and affected her, especially concerning our past experience. Plus a few years back Brian King (from the AT Conference) along with the Tennessee Eastman Hiking and Canoeing Club helped me locate the old AT trail, so we could hike back into the site where the attacks occured. Brian's support during that time and the help we received from him and the TEHCC did more to restore my faith in the trail community than I can explain.
Anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that yes, the majority of people will be 100% safe on their hikes, just please don't deny the existence of people like us who weren't so lucky. Otherwise the image is given that if something does happen, it must have been a freak accident that could have been avoided. And as far as having a cell phone or pepper spray, well I doubt that would have done much good against 5 men armed with guns and knives. One safety tip I do agree with is camping as far away as you can from roads, and I would add that doing a little research into the various areas you will be hiking through would give you a heads up on how cautious you need to be. The area where our assaults occurred is still troubled to this day. Bitter End is about eight miles trail north of U.S. 19E. This area is known locally as Buck Mountain (of the 5 men who raped us, only one is back in prison for a recent crime, the rest still live in the area). Back then they were all well known by officials and feared by the locals in the area. I just wish we would have been aware that we were not taking a Sunday stroll through a perfectly safe area. If you go on most local AT trail maintenance websites they will list alerts for their areas, telling you how safe it is to leave your car, etc. This link is from the current Tennessee Eastman Hiking and Canoeing Club web site. http://www.tehcc.org/Alerts.htm#safety (http://www.tehcc.org/Alerts.htm#safety)
So yes, I still love the AT and the mountains, and have gone back and hiked sections of the AT numerous times (I still even keep my dream of maybe one day doing a thru hike). But I just couldn't stay silent on this board any longer. Please know that this post is not directed towards anyone in particular and I'm sorry if it came off too strong, I guess I just wanted my experience to be acknowledged and heard.
very disturbing on several levels. Not a fan of eminent domain, find another way...road walk! but hanging fish hooks, root nails and rape...enough!
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