If you sleep cold, would this be enough for you with a 25 degree low?

[Midwest Mike]

20 degree EE Revelation quilt

medium-weight fleece

two down vests

fleece cap and standard balaclava

Thanks!

[MuddyWaters]

Realistically, I think of my 2 WM bags being good to temp. Bybthis i mean im snug, warm, cozy and sleep well.

I think of my montbell bag as being 5F higher

I think of my quilts as being 10 F higher really

2 down vests? Worry about head and feet instead. I wouldnt hesitate to take 20f quilt for 25f. But id have down hood, and expect cool feet.

It depends a lot on if daytime temp was 30, or 60, how long it stays cold. I wouldnt in winter , more likely in spring and fall

[sethd513]

I sleep cold in my quilt even after a good amount of time in it. I sent it back to get some down added to it. That being said with a down coat, hat and the whole thing I've had it down to 17* without a vbl before overstuffing it. My 20* enigma is now about 12* per EE. I haven't tested it since it was overstuffed.

For you, take one of those vest and wrap your feet in it if they are cold. Wear the other one loose on top of you if you need it. Personally I'd wear some wool mittens and a down beanie on top of that. You'll want a thermarest xtherm or something around r5 insulation value especially if up on a tent platform. I'm assuming this question is asked in a situation without a shelter? Tents and bivys add warmth. Tarps and shelters break wind.


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[Sandy of PA]

What R value mat do you have under you? I would need about an R5 for this scenario.

[colorado_rob]

20 degree EE Revelation quilt

medium-weight fleece

two down vests

fleece cap and standard balaclava

Thanks!

I think you're right there, especially with all those upper body clothes, and assuming you've got that R5 below you like Sandy said. We're all different as to where we get cold; I'm all about my core. My feet and head never seem to get cold, only my torso. Certainly a balaclava and hat combo would be plenty toasty enough. Only you can judge your feet and how they do typically.

[egilbe]

What R value mat do you have under you? I would need about an R5 for this scenario.

I usually do two mats. But yeah, people assume the temp rating for their bag is off when they are really losing heat through the ground.

[Cheyou]

Yes the sleep pad is very very important. I would b toasty if I was on my xtherm pad

[George]

IMO if you sleep cold ( like I do) a bag is a better choice than a quilt

[daddytwosticks]

IMO if you sleep cold ( like I do) a bag is a better choice than a quilt

True, in my experience. Also, a bag is better in cold weather if you toss and turn in your sleep like me.

[Engine]

Last night at Sassafras Gap it was 24* and windy until midnight. I slept under my 20* EE quilt with a STS liner, lightweight baselayer, down puffy, seaskinz socks, and EE hood.

I was very comfortable all night...But I'm a warm sleeper.

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[Hikingjim]

bring dry and thick socks or down booties if you have them (booties not necessary at 25, imo). leg base layer + light pants might be good. In winter with my quilt I typically go with long underwear + a light pant for camp/sleep.
Your hat/balaclava should be perfect if the hat is fairly warm.

I assume one of your vests is a bit bigger? If all that stuff is two tight, the down might compress in your vests. In that case, you'd be far better to just lay one of the vests over you somewhere (such as your core or wherever else you're cold)

Agree that an insufficient sleeping pad will ruin your night regardless!

[bigcranky]

If I have a down vest I often put it around my feet. Also, I like to carry a small piece of closed cell foam a a sit pad -- this also goes under my feet inside the bag or quilt at night. Helps a lot. If you can afford a set of Goosefeet they are also great for extra warmth.

Comparing my new 20F EE quilt (the 2-person version) to the loft of my WM Megalite, which has 2oz added down, and thinking about the lowest temps in which I've been comfortable in that bag, then my answer is yes -- given the proper sleeping pad, my light base layers that I usually sleep in, goosefeet, and a down vest or jacket to layer over me. Below freezing I am definitely using a hood, either the EE hood or my down jacket hood. Fleece might not be enough for me.

[Midwest Mike]

Thanks to all of you. I can't get out enough to figure stuff like this out myself, so I deeply appreciate the input. The reminder about ground insulation is especially helpful; I might or might not have remembered to bring foam pads to supplement my Xlite, but now I will. And I hadn't thought about the various uses for the vests at all. Happy trails.

[Venchka]

My take on quilts in the 20 degrees range...
By the time you assemble all the hats, booties, puffy, etc., etc. you would sleep better in a quality 20 degree down sleeping bag. In the right sleeping bag you would also be comfortable well into the 'teens.
Ask Just Bill. He knows.
Wayne


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[Francis Sawyer]

Take the R value of your sleeping pad and subtract the temperature rating ( below freezing ) of your sleeping bag. Then for every 100 ft of elevation above sea level add .35 degrees. Then divide the level of humidity by your latitude and add that to your weight (in stones) then subtract your age. Then add your Hdl cholesterol level and divide that by the total number of points scored in the latest Australian cricket match. Finally subtract the angular vector of the moon and the number SHOULD give the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

[Berserker]

I sleep cold, and one of the main things to make sure you have as discussed above is good ground insulation. If I were going to sleep out in 25 deg I'd been using my WM Alpinlite (20 deg) and wearing a down jacket and synthetic pants inside of it...may sound ridiculous, but that's what I gotta do to stay warm. So yeah, another thing to consider is some synthetic or down filled pants...they're light weight, pack up small, and provide a lot of warmth.

[colorado_rob]

My take on quilts in the 20 degrees range...
By the time you assemble all the hats, booties, puffy, etc., etc. you would sleep better in a quality 20 degree down sleeping bag. In the right sleeping bag you would also be comfortable well into the 'teens.

I disagree. A good 20 degree quilt with a built in footbox, on top of a decent R4-5 pad is just as warm as an excellent quality 20 Degree WM sleeping bag. I have (or had) both and directly compared numerous times. Since my quilt (Katabatic gear 21 degree) was just as warm (meaning just as much down loft above me and on the sides), but over a half pound lighter than my WM bag, I sold my WM bag. Only a regular beanie-style (smartwool, in my case) hat is needed for head warmth (for me, at least, down to high-teens/low 20's), and I would carrying that hat either way. That all being said, there is a short learning period for getting used to using a quilt.

[bigcranky]

An African or European swallow?

[cmoulder]

Thanks to all of you. I can't get out enough to figure stuff like this out myself, so I deeply appreciate the input. The reminder about ground insulation is especially helpful; I might or might not have remembered to bring foam pads to supplement my Xlite, but now I will. And I hadn't thought about the various uses for the vests at all. Happy trails.

Using an Xlite at that temp I would definitely supplement it with a Z-lite, at the very least, and preferably a RidgeRest Solite. And put the foam pad ON TOP of the air mat.

[Midwest Mike]

Thanks for the advice and the laughs. Cmoulder, you would have the Xlite and the foam pads AND the SOlite? I was thinking the Xlite and two pads would take me up to about 5.5 R value, and that would be enough. But I'm happy to learn that I'm wrong.