DFW people interested in Z Packs?

[CHILL_TX]

Just read a thread about buying a pack without trying it on. I'm going through the same thing. I actually contacted Z Packs about a demo pack program, but got shut down. I have a hard time dropping $350 on a pack, and another $600 on a tent without at least putting my hands on them first.

Here's my question...

If I bought a pack and possibly a tent (duplex maybe?) to try out, and set a time, would there be anyone interested in coming to check them out in person somewhere around Dallas/Fort Worth? Maybe meet at a park or something? Then people could get a feel for the products before dropping $1,000 on two items. Also, is there anyone who already owns some cottage gear that would want to come let others get a look in person?

I have zero ties to Z Packs and will get nothing from the company for this. I'll be purchasing the items out of pocket, and returning them after. I'm not trying to sell anything. I just know my own frustration right now, and thought I could help a couple others in the same boat.

[smoovoperator]

From what I know, they have a pretty good return policy. If it doesn't work out, send it back.

[FeistyNZChick]

Yep Zpacks is great to work with. I purchased their Duplex Tent and arc backpack from Australia and like you I struggled not having seen the products. I had nothing to worry about the products have been great. Return policies are good and you could try buying from the bargain bin for slightly cheaper price


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[chknfngrs]

I don't think you should do that to yourself. A burden to you and the company. You should contact other owners (like in a forum on a backpacking website dedicated to the Appalachian Trail. Word of mouth goes a long way.

Although I don't own zpacks, I've bought from mountain laurel designs who for the most part are on the same lightweight and super ultra lightweight wave length. I have to assume these cottage industry mogul-types have the best customer service, because their business depends on it. They are aware that we cannot try it on, touch it and whatnot before we make a purchasing decision and accommodate their customers accordingly. Zpacks has a great reputation, and though I don't need anything from them, based on my experience with Ron Bell and MLD, I would not hesitate purchasing their product without seeing it first. It might feel awkward but trusting their happy customers goes a long way.

[CHILL_TX]

We all know their reputation for customer service. This isn't about customer service in any way. If your comment is about customer service, then save it and move on. This idea is about people not being able to see the products in person, and not being able to afford buying them just to try out. Maybe they are considering saving up for a duplex, but are tempted to pick up a cheaper tent now instead because of convenience. Maybe seeing the products in person is what helps them make that decision.

I'm going to purchase a couple products for myself that I may or may not return. I just figured it would be beneficial to others in my area to carve time out of my schedule and let others come check them out in person. Not sure why all the negativity around that idea.

[chknfngrs]

It's not negative if you're trying to be helpful. It's way more involved when you're buying from this type of manufacturer because the gear is so ridiculously highly specialized. It's not for everyone for that reason. Definitely do your thing and do it with gusto.

[John M]

So you're going to let a bunch of people crawl around in a tent, probably get it dirty, then send it back where zpacks will have to sell it in their bargain bin. Not real cool if you ask me. Buy the stuff YOU want, send it back if it doesn't work out. But don't order with your mind already made up that you're sending it back.

[left52side]

I have nothing but great stuff to say about Zpacks in general,they have amazing customer service as well as great products. I understand your frustration with these decisions to make but honestly it is one of the top three cottage manufactures in the ultralight market.
You have no worries from them honestly .

[chknfngrs]

The first post suggested he would send it back, but in the second indicated hey may or may not do so.

[DuneElliot]

So you're going to let a bunch of people crawl around in a tent, probably get it dirty, then send it back where zpacks will have to sell it in their bargain bin. Not real cool if you ask me. Buy the stuff YOU want, send it back if it doesn't work out. But don't order with your mind already made up that you're sending it back.

This is exactly what went through my mind when I read the OP and I agree completely.

[CHILL_TX]

So you're going to let a bunch of people crawl around in a tent, probably get it dirty, then send it back where zpacks will have to sell it in their bargain bin. Not real cool if you ask me. Buy the stuff YOU want, send it back if it doesn't work out. But don't order with your mind already made up that you're sending it back.

You make it sound like there will be 100 people in muddy boots crawling in and out of the tent all day. I'm guessing more like 5-10 who will view the tent, and maybe set it up and take it back down, in a nice clean grassy area, on a tarp, and obviously taking care to remove shoes before entering a tent... like always. You're making some pretty baseless assumptions here, like that we have no respect for the company and wouldn't take the best of care of their products. This is an attempt to offer a service to people in my area. If you're not interested, then don't come. Pretty simple.

[Maineiac64]

I just bought zpacks tent and pack based on overwhelming positive reviews and feedback which when backed by return policy is very low risk.

Zpacks often show up at trail events too. I would not use the return policy to do a group demo unless Joe was ok with it.

[John M]

Are you buying with the intention of returning the product or are you planning on keeping them? Unless you're 95% sure you're going to keep the stuff I would call what you're doing dishonest. And before you say it doesn't affect me, when people start doing stuff like this, companies tighten up their return policies which affects all of us.

[CHILL_TX]

I guess I should clarify... I'm going to do this for my own benefit no matter what. I have a nearly new backpack and good tent, but want to lighten my load, and their products are at the top of my list. If I like the products, and they fit me well, then I'm keeping them. Again... I'm offering to let others come check out products that I will have bought with my own money at full price. I'm assuming 100% of the risk. If anything is damaged, or appears used, then it's not eligible for return, and that's a risk I'm willing to take on because I know my own current frustration and want to help out others who are in the same boat.

I just bought zpacks tent and pack based on overwhelming positive reviews and feedback which when backed by return policy is very low risk.

Zpacks often show up at trail events too. I would not use the return policy to do a group demo unless Joe was ok with it.

[CHILL_TX]

If you're not interested in the idea, then move on. I'm not looking for ethics opinions at this time. I've conversed with Z Packs on their return policy directly.

Are you buying with the intention of returning the product or are you planning on keeping them? Unless you're 95% sure you're going to keep the stuff I would call what you're doing dishonest. And before you say it doesn't affect me, when people start doing stuff like this, companies tighten up their return policies which affects all of us.

[John M]

If you're not interested in the idea, then move on.

Will do. Enjoy your new gear.

[Just Bill]

In defense of the OP:
One very nice thing that the folks at Hammock Forum do is have regular get together and meet-ups. From informal weekends to group hangs. It is incredibly helpful for the exact reasons and good intentions he has regarding getting out to see cottage gear in person and check it out. They even have a full forum to do this: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-Trip-Planning

About the closest thing we have is trail days, kick offs, etc. where vendors are out. Barring that... not many options to see the gear.

Keep in mind: the whole reason you are getting cottage gear at a reasonable price is that there is (rarely) a distributor, a brick and mortar store, or a vendor (retail) who is rightfully taking their markup.

On the flipside- it is what it is- and as mentioned cottage vendors generally have nearly ridiculous levels of customer service to offset the lack of face to face interaction.
REI once had a similarly insane return policy; which was abused and shut down.

"I'll be purchasing the items out of pocket, and returning them after."
That does rub some folks the wrong way. For my part... getting started on this sorta thing.
Paypal is about the best known, and merchant fees are roughly 3% per transaction... which is another 3% to process the return.
Plus handling(boxup) shipping (if it wasn't free) and then having to inspect the return for any defects... and any repair, cleaning or discounts to stick it in the bargain bin.

And if the gear is sold again then all these costs (less the return merchant fees) occur when it finally finds a home.

So point being- a little test and return can burn up roughly 10%-15% of the cost on goods that don't generally run on very high margins.

To be blunt... somebody like EE or Zpacks has enough good reputation and hardwork in that they have more customers than they can handle.

On the constructive side:
If you were a member of a local hiking club or similar then a vendor may be willing to send a demo. Just be honest.
Even better- odds are decent if you joined a trail club, the sierra club, or similar you'd probably find local folks who use the gear you might want to.

I am personally considering a version of what some cottage vendors have done- a rental program. That way some of my costs would be covered, but I could reach out to address your concern and get some gear in your hands. On my end I can assign a few units as Demo Units. That sort of system avoids putting a vendor or a customer in the spot of having to create "used" or discount bin gear that costs each of us money.

Dropping big money on gear you've never seen in person is a big deal; cottage guys get that and understand.
But customers here understand (and have seen) when generosity gets abused and that relationship suffers so that's why you're getting some pushback.

[CHILL_TX]

Good points there all around. My hopes were that some others like me would get to see the products first hand, then put in their own orders. I had hoped to let other like me finally pull the trigger or move on to another idea. I actually thought it might result in a couple extra sells for Z Packs. My intention was poorly stated in the first post. If I like the products, I would be keeping them.

In defense of the OP:
One very nice thing that the folks at Hammock Forum do is have regular get together and meet-ups. From informal weekends to group hangs. It is incredibly helpful for the exact reasons and good intentions he has regarding getting out to see cottage gear in person and check it out. They even have a full forum to do this: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-Trip-Planning

About the closest thing we have is trail days, kick offs, etc. where vendors are out. Barring that... not many options to see the gear.

Keep in mind: the whole reason you are getting cottage gear at a reasonable price is that there is (rarely) a distributor, a brick and mortar store, or a vendor (retail) who is rightfully taking their markup.

On the flipside- it is what it is- and as mentioned cottage vendors generally have nearly ridiculous levels of customer service to offset the lack of face to face interaction.
REI once had a similarly insane return policy; which was abused and shut down.

"I'll be purchasing the items out of pocket, and returning them after."
That does rub some folks the wrong way. For my part... getting started on this sorta thing.
Paypal is about the best known, and merchant fees are roughly 3% per transaction... which is another 3% to process the return.
Plus handling(boxup) shipping (if it wasn't free) and then having to inspect the return for any defects... and any repair, cleaning or discounts to stick it in the bargain bin.

And if the gear is sold again then all these costs (less the return merchant fees) occur when it finally finds a home.

So point being- a little test and return can burn up roughly 10%-15% of the cost on goods that don't generally run on very high margins.

To be blunt... somebody like EE or Zpacks has enough good reputation and hardwork in that they have more customers than they can handle.

On the constructive side:
If you were a member of a local hiking club or similar then a vendor may be willing to send a demo. Just be honest.
Even better- odds are decent if you joined a trail club, the sierra club, or similar you'd probably find local folks who use the gear you might want to.

I am personally considering a version of what some cottage vendors have done- a rental program. That way some of my costs would be covered, but I could reach out to address your concern and get some gear in your hands. On my end I can assign a few units as Demo Units. That sort of system avoids putting a vendor or a customer in the spot of having to create "used" or discount bin gear that costs each of us money.

Dropping big money on gear you've never seen in person is a big deal; cottage guys get that and understand.
But customers here understand (and have seen) when generosity gets abused and that relationship suffers so that's why you're getting some pushback.

[tflaris]

Z Packs is a great company to deal with IMHO. They also have the bargain bin deals on occasion.


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[Dogwood]

Need to get a far better idea of what one might want before ordering and creating a self demo "I'll return it after I see it - USE IT " approach especially after just being specifically told there is no demo program through ZP. My goodness ZPacks is just one of many UL and SUL specialty cottage industries that one would not be able to see or "feel" the gear before buying. What you're doing hurts these small manufacturers and leads to even larger outfitters like REI tightening return policies that affect all of us. Several comments at various UL manufacturer sites say specifically not to order multiple sizes to see what fits. These same sites offer detailed info about their gear to get it ordered right from the get go.

With ZPacks being one of if not THE currently hottest UL/SUL cottage gear manufacturers there are oodles of Zpacks gear reviews including many YouTube vids. ZP's own site has many product demonstration vids so having to "feel" gear in person sounds like an excuse for not engaging in appropriate gear due diligence. ZP's popularity also ranges into LARGE metropolitan Texas areas like DFW so hook up with others there to see their ZP gear.