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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Without a gear list it's hard to tell if you are a genius or a fool.
    For somebody who has made the effort to learn UL concepts and put together a halfway decent kit, it is simple common sense... nothing extreme about it nowadays.

    If you gotta have a gear list, HERE is mine for this past weekend, rainy and 55°F Saturday, 42°F overnight, glorious sunshine Sunday, with total comfort... and yes, I did use almost everything I carried. Total pack weight with food (about 1.5 lb) and 20 oz of water was a bit under 11 lb.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 04-24-2017 at 18:48.

  2. #82
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Without a gear list it's hard to tell if you are a genius or a fool.
    How is hiking with 20 pound pack requiring anyone to be a genius??? Do tell? Does a woman name Grandma Gatewood ring a bell? She hiked in the 1950s - 1960s with 17 pounds backpack. Surely you don't think with all the improvement in lightweight gear and done previously some 60+ years ago, it now requires someone to be a "genius" to achieve.

    Gear list don't mean anything. The gear a hiker uses depends primary on how knowable and experiences of the hiker that is using the gear.

    Wolf

  3. #83

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    I just did an overnight without the "proper" gear. The low was in the low 40's. I used a 5 by 7 tarp to cover a piknik table and one to lay on. I attached the tarp to the table with zip ties. I used a small throw to cover with and slept on the ground. I slept in pants and a skirt a t shirt and a light long sleeve shirt. I was only a little cold for 2 hours. I could have fixed it but it was raining and I couldnt get to my other shirt without getting wet.

    I took too much food and ended up carrying out about 3 lbs of food. My pack weighed about 12 lbs.

    I didnt have socks or a hat. I should have taken those. I also should have had at least a cheap walmart foam pad. Those would have added a lb or less. Food for 4 more days would add lets say 8 lbs. I
    So without the "right" gear and without freeze drying or dehydrating food i could achieve a 25 lb pack. I affed 5 lbs to account for at guidebook cook pot feul and incidentals for a long distance hike not just an overnight

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Without a gear list it's hard to tell if you are a genius or a fool.
    My list is pretty extensive.

    REI Flash 50 - 40 oz (bought this a number of years ago, new ones may weigh different)
    Exped Synmat 15.5 oz with the pump bag that doubles as my dry sack for clothes and sleeping bag
    Zpacks 40 degree sleeping bag slim/medium 11.4oz (manuf. weight)
    Zpacks solplex tent with 8 carbon fiber stakes 27.28 oz (manuf weight)
    Cocoon Silk mummy liner
    Silk long johns top and bottom
    shorts and shirt to sleep in (Danskin from Walmart)
    EMS Techwick 1/4 zip long sleeve
    REI brand puffy jacket
    Mountain Hardwear head "buff" - thick
    "driving" gloves (I used to wear these on cold mornings when driving before the steering wheel got warmed up)
    chap stick and some type of natural nasal "inhaler" to clear nose allergies
    carrying 2 pair darn tough socks - 1 sleeping, 1 spare hiking
    Hiking poles - Bought these for snow shoeing years back
    2 x Sea 2 Summit dry sacks for food bags (my food is VERY lightweight but bulky - I need to work on better packaging technique)
    small "carabiner" and bear bag line (2mm reflective cord) - 1 will hold 4+ days of food
    spare ex officio underwear
    Jetboil MicroMo
    110 g fuel canister
    lighter (in case)
    2 disposable "trash bags" just ordinary twist tie bags for veggies, with twist ties
    cozy for FBC (though I use a different bag type made for boiling water) with 2 small binder clips
    Ti spoon long handle
    small single blade pocket knife
    3oz plastic bottle with Himalayan salt
    30z plastic bottle with coconut oil
    1oz bottle with white pepper
    1oz bottle of Dr Bronners
    TOOB toothbrush w/paste
    1 single use packet of Fructise shampoo&conditioner (for shower stop)
    equivalent of 2 lightload towels (I use 4 colors for different uses but only half of a 12"x12") - these get resupplied about every week
    comb
    sleep mask and ear plugs
    spare hair band/tie
    Icy Hot (in one of those push style? applicating bottles)
    First aid kit - 2 pieces mole skin, 3' gorilla tape, 3' porous tape, 4 bandaids, 1 weeks allergy meds, 2 days diarhea meds, 2 antiseptic wipes)
    14 Vitamin I
    MIni Sawyer squeeze with a 16oz platypus bag (no back flush tool)
    Hydrapak Seeker 3L (for night time/camping and avoiding multiple trips to water source)
    2 x Smart water 1L bottles (1 with sport nozzle)
    a spare cap for platypus
    a cap with holes drilled for salt and pepper "shakers" - 1 for both
    P style
    Gallon bag w/trowel, TP, and 2 grocery bags for "nasties"
    iphone5, charge cord, dual wall charger, pocket juice 4000 and charge cord, ear phones though I plan on very little use of these in a Qt freezer bag
    small journal and pen (yes), reading glasses, necessary pages from AWOL and pocket constitution all in a Qt freezer bag
    2 bags from limes you buy at the store - I use one for the pstyle and 1 for anything that may need drying (I can hang it outside my pack)

    Food - I freeze dry all my own food. When I weighed 7 days in a box to ship it came out to 6 lbs 12 oz, box and all. I am currently carrying 4 days and likely to add an ounce or two more after I freeze dry my 40 kiwis! LOL so food is only about a pound a day, even adding in my nuts and raisins (not FDed) and my other FDed snacks (berries/kiwi/bananas)
    I also will have my sunglasses and a baseball cap though I didn't have these when doing the weighing. close enough. I may also wear/bring a pair of gaiters.

    Frogg Toggs women's ultralite 2 rain jacket and REI rainpants and energizer headlamp. (I said I was doing this off the top of my head!)
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  5. #85

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    exTENsive? or exPENsive?

    How many calories are in that 6lbs/12oz of food?

  6. #86
    Registered User Old Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    My list is pretty extensive.

    REI Flash 50 - 40 oz (bought this a number of years ago, new ones may weigh different)
    Exped Synmat 15.5 oz with the pump bag that doubles as my dry sack for clothes and sleeping bag
    Zpacks 40 degree sleeping bag slim/medium 11.4oz (manuf. weight)
    Zpacks solplex tent with 8 carbon fiber stakes 27.28 oz (manuf weight)

    Cocoon Silk mummy liner
    Silk long johns top and bottom
    shorts and shirt to sleep in (Danskin from Walmart)
    EMS Techwick 1/4 zip long sleeve
    REI brand puffy jacket
    Mountain Hardwear head "buff" - thick
    "driving" gloves (I used to wear these on cold mornings when driving before the steering wheel got warmed up)
    chap stick and some type of natural nasal "inhaler" to clear nose allergies
    carrying 2 pair darn tough socks - 1 sleeping, 1 spare hiking
    Hiking poles - Bought these for snow shoeing years back
    2 x Sea 2 Summit dry sacks for food bags (my food is VERY lightweight but bulky - I need to work on better packaging technique)
    small "carabiner" and bear bag line (2mm reflective cord) - 1 will hold 4+ days of food
    spare ex officio underwear
    Jetboil MicroMo
    110 g fuel canister
    lighter (in case)
    2 disposable "trash bags" just ordinary twist tie bags for veggies, with twist ties
    cozy for FBC (though I use a different bag type made for boiling water) with 2 small binder clips
    Ti spoon long handle
    small single blade pocket knife
    3oz plastic bottle with Himalayan salt
    30z plastic bottle with coconut oil
    1oz bottle with white pepper
    1oz bottle of Dr Bronners

    TOOB toothbrush w/paste
    1 single use packet of Fructise shampoo&conditioner (for shower stop)
    equivalent of 2 lightload towels (I use 4 colors for different uses but only half of a 12"x12") - these get resupplied about every week
    comb
    sleep mask and ear plugs
    spare hair band/tie
    Icy Hot (in one of those push style? applicating bottles)
    First aid kit - 2 pieces mole skin, 3' gorilla tape, 3' porous tape, 4 bandaids, 1 weeks allergy meds, 2 days diarhea meds, 2 antiseptic wipes)
    14 Vitamin I
    MIni Sawyer squeeze with a 16oz platypus bag (no back flush tool)
    Hydrapak Seeker 3L (for night time/camping and avoiding multiple trips to water source)
    2 x Smart water 1L bottles (1 with sport nozzle)
    a spare cap for platypus
    a cap with holes drilled for salt and pepper "shakers" - 1 for both
    P style
    Gallon bag w/trowel, TP, and 2 grocery bags for "nasties"
    iphone5, charge cord, dual wall charger, pocket juice 4000 and charge cord, ear phones though I plan on very little use of these in a Qt freezer bag
    small journal and pen (yes), reading glasses, necessary pages from AWOL and pocket constitution all in a Qt freezer bag
    2 bags from limes you buy at the store - I use one for the pstyle and 1 for anything that may need drying (I can hang it outside my pack)

    Food - I freeze dry all my own food. When I weighed 7 days in a box to ship it came out to 6 lbs 12 oz, box and all. I am currently carrying 4 days and likely to add an ounce or two more after I freeze dry my 40 kiwis! LOL so food is only about a pound a day, even adding in my nuts and raisins (not FDed) and my other FDed snacks (berries/kiwi/bananas)
    I also will have my sunglasses and a baseball cap though I didn't have these when doing the weighing. close enough. I may also wear/bring a pair of gaiters.

    Frogg Toggs women's ultralite 2 rain jacket and REI rainpants and energizer headlamp. (I said I was doing this off the top of my head!)

    Sorry - I must be dense. I've added up ONLY what the GIVEN weights are and come up with about 20 pounds. Where are the weights of everything else? What am I missing?
    Old Hiker
    AT Hike 2012 - 497 Miles of 2184
    AT Thru Hiker - 29 FEB - 03 OCT 2016 2189.1 miles
    Just because my teeth are showing, does NOT mean I'm smiling.
    Hányszor lennél inkább máshol?

  7. #87
    Registered User kestral's Avatar
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    Gear lists and grams and calories per ounce and lets argue and throw our fellows under the bus because their stuff/ food/way is not ours. It's fine to do something different if it works for you. HYOH!

    pennypincher said she had a great time. Nuff said

  8. #88

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    Good enough, sure, but this IS the Gram Weenie Forum!

    Sometimes it is fun to produce a gear list for naysayers because it demonstrates that UL is easily within reach of the average backpacker. It is also useful to me because it helps me keep "weight creep" in check by constantly evaluating what I'm carrying and why I'm carrying it.

    Believe it or not, there are some UL folks who would question my carrying both the poncho and the Versalite, and both the down jacket and the fleece! But I know me and I'm the only one I have to answer to.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 04-25-2017 at 17:18.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Good enough, sure, but this IS the Gram Weenie Forum!

    Sometimes it is fun to produce a gear list for naysayers because it demonstrates that UL is easily within reach of the average backpacker. It is also useful to me because it helps me keep "weight creep" in check by constantly evaluating what I'm carrying and why I'm carrying it.

    Believe it or not, there are some UL folks who would question my carrying both the poncho and the Versalite, and both the down jacket and the fleece! But I know me and I'm the only one I have to answer to.
    Made a list for the average hiker wanting to cut weight. All items are from the REI website and easily accessible to everyone. If I owned the product I used it's actual weight. If I did not own it I used the stated weight. This is a really solid list for 3 season hiking. I feel like anyone would be comfortable in the woods with this list. Base weight is 13 lbs. and could be dramatically reduced with a few items from cottage vendors.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

  10. #90

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    Except HYOH does not mean "be intentionally misleading about pack weight, in the context of a discussion specifically ABOUT pack weight".

    I mentioned this in another thread, but the problem is not how one could possibly have light gear (it's easy, google it), but that when not starting from scratch, you end up justifying paying 100s of dollars to shave ounces. For instance, if someone already owns raingear which is heavier than the Helium II, it's a sunk cost, spending $200+ to go from say ~22 oz to ~11 oz just isn't feasible in a lot of cases. Just because there exists a product lighter than the one in use, doesn't mean that it's realistic to switch to it.

  11. #91
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    Under 20#s with a week of food and using a canister stove too. what have you got in your pockets? (I'm assuming that's a 7 day week) Seriously though - you can't just leave out water and the container(s) and claim under 20 lbs. "Under 20 lbs" means "Under 20 lbs".

    Good on you for getting the weight down. I've watched a lot of thrus go through Erwin this year with 40 lb+ packs and it blows my mind.
    Last edited by 10-K; 04-26-2017 at 07:46.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Under 20#s with a week of food and using a canister stove too. what have you got in your pockets? (I'm assuming that's a 7 day week)
    Actually, now that I have seen the list it occurs that there might be some fudge baked into it.

    I have done many 4- and 5-day trips with typically 1.5lb food per day and with all-UL kit (and 1 liter of water carried) the 3-season TWP is bit under or over 20 lbs on the first day. I see a few things on PP's list that I am fairly certain would blow the 20lb weight budget right out of the starting gate, such as the 40oz pack and the 15.5oz sleep mat and (approx? with fuel) 20oz stove.

    A good digital scale and a spreadsheet are essential for this exercise. And a digital hanging scale that is used to weigh the pack right at the trailhead is the acid test... it will find all those little last-minute things that didn't make it onto the spreadsheet

    All said and done, you carry what you need (and want, and can afford, and are willing to schlep) and it weighs what it weighs and some people really couldn't care less. But I agree with AllDownhill that in a discussion about pack weight—and in the UL forum—it is fair to ask "really?"
    Last edited by cmoulder; 04-26-2017 at 08:56.

  13. #93

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    Three season gear and 6 days of food for me comes in at around 26# including water.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by hipbone View Post
    Made a list for the average hiker wanting to cut weight. All items are from the REI website and easily accessible to everyone. If I owned the product I used it's actual weight. If I did not own it I used the stated weight. This is a really solid list for 3 season hiking. I feel like anyone would be comfortable in the woods with this list. Base weight is 13 lbs. and could be dramatically reduced with a few items from cottage vendors.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Excellent example!

    And and example of how 'going cottage' would be lighter AND cheaper, with the shelter, BA tent/footprint @36.5oz... a solo hiker could easily use a Tarptent Protrail with polycryo ground sheet @27oz (and $225) and save almost 10 oz AND about $150.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    Except HYOH does not mean "be intentionally misleading about pack weight, in the context of a discussion specifically ABOUT pack weight".

    I mentioned this in another thread, but the problem is not how one could possibly have light gear (it's easy, google it), but that when not starting from scratch, you end up justifying paying 100s of dollars to shave ounces. For instance, if someone already owns raingear which is heavier than the Helium II, it's a sunk cost, spending $200+ to go from say ~22 oz to ~11 oz just isn't feasible in a lot of cases. Just because there exists a product lighter than the one in use, doesn't mean that it's realistic to switch to it.
    I am not being dishonest. I mentioned the weight of 1 weeks food but stated I was carrying 4 days. I measured the total weight before leaving the Hiker Hostel with their digital scale. It included 1 liter of water. The only thing that was likely in my pockets was my cell phone. Even my money/ID/credit card was in the pack.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Actually, now that I have seen the list it occurs that there might be some fudge baked into it.

    I have done many 4- and 5-day trips with typically 1.5lb food per day and with all-UL kit (and 1 liter of water carried) the 3-season TWP is bit under or over 20 lbs on the first day. I see a few things on PP's list that I am fairly certain would blow the 20lb weight budget right out of the starting gate, such as the 40oz pack and the 15.5oz sleep mat and (approx? with fuel) 20oz stove.

    A good digital scale and a spreadsheet are essential for this exercise. And a digital hanging scale that is used to weigh the pack right at the trailhead is the acid test... it will find all those little last-minute things that didn't make it onto the spreadsheet

    All said and done, you carry what you need (and want, and can afford, and are willing to schlep) and it weighs what it weighs and some people really couldn't care less. But I agree with AllDownhill that in a discussion about pack weight—and in the UL forum—it is fair to ask "really?"
    See my last reply regarding the fact that I did weigh the pack at the Hiker Hostel and it came in at 22.5lbs.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    See my last reply regarding the fact that I did weigh the pack at the Hiker Hostel and it came in at 22.5lbs.
    Fair enough!

  18. #98

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    That's good stuff right there!

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    I mentioned the weight of 1 weeks food but stated I was carrying 4 days. ....
    to be fair, in your original post, you said "Fully loaded backpack with 7 days food is at 20.5lbs" . Kudos regardless of the nitpicking.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saprogenic View Post
    to be fair, in your original post, you said "Fully loaded backpack with 7 days food is at 20.5lbs" . Kudos regardless of the nitpicking.
    Yep and it was according to my bathroom scale. After that I switched sleeping mats, dumped a couple things and then added a couple things. Also, the original weight did not include any water or my hiking poles. The 22.5 was with 1 Liter of water and the poles plus a few extra snacks leftover from my travel to GA.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

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