Factors in Choosing a Tent?

[eggymane]

If you decide to go with a silnylon tent I would recommend these or simply make your own.

https://www.msrgear.com/tents/tightline-cord-tensioner

[Tipi Walter]

Silnylon is lighter than what I have, and less expensive than cuben tents, but how badly does it stretch when it gets wet? (re-adjusting my pitch through a rainy night is not my idea of late-night entertainment.)
Double wall tents are a defense against interior wetness due to condensation, but are modern single-wall tents better vented to produce less of a condensation risk?

As far as condensation goes, read my Peter Clinch quote below. My silnylon tents stretch alot and require a "second set-up" on a frequent basis, what you call re-adjusting my pitch. Here's my Keron tent during normal dry-air setup---



And then with a little moisture---

What this means in reality is that I'm setting up the tent TWICE---to go out in crappy weather and restaking the thing. Irksome.

Silnylon does sag or stretch a little when wet, even with just the evening dew.

All tents will have condensation under the right conditions. Most single wall cottage gear made tents will have a lot of ventilation (so be aware of that on cold windy nights ), but they can get pretty wet inside sometimes. This is a tradeoff that I am willing to make (and I carry a small chamois towel to dry the inside of the tent in the morning as needed).

To your first point, yes, just look at my pics. To your condensation point, yes, ALL TENTS will have condensation depending on air humidity and temps. And with this condensation will come interior wetness, made worse without the interior canopy of a double wall tent. Here's proof---


This was taken on a December trip during a 75 hour rainstorm. I was inside my double wall tent and the inside of the fly dripped this condensation on top of my interior yellow canopy which shunted the water down to the ground. Point is, without my inner tent all this water would've landed on me and my gear thru the night.

1)

2) Tent ventilation and condensation has as much, or more, to do you with your choices than the tent design. Leave whatever vents there are open and pitch in low humidity areas and condensation will be minimal in most shelters. Close vents against weather and camp in higher humidity, and you will get condensation inside any shelter. The double wall just protects you from accidentally touching the condensation or having the condensation run down the tent wall and puddle on the floor or otherwise soak your gear.

I guess it depends on where you are camping, but in the Southeast mountains of NC/TN and Virginia and Georgia, tent condensation can be at times terrible no matter how much you vent the thing. Here's the best description on tent condensation I have seen and comes from Peter Clinch from an Outdoorsmagic.com forum---

"Is there anything that can alleviate such condensation (if that's what is was) apart from venting as much as possible?"

"It's easy, all you need to do is defy some fundamental laws of physics . . . There are times and conditions when you just can't stop it. If air is saturated with moisture, which it quite often is in persistent rain because there's so much moisture about, you've got lots of condensation potential. Cool things down by letting the sun set and you've got saturated air that often can't help but lose some of that water, and it comes out in the form of a fine mist over any good condensing surface, and a tent porch is an excellent one."

"Most of what venting a tent does is carry away excess moisture created by the inhabitants of the tent as people naturally give off a fair bit of moist air. But if the source of the moist air is just all the air that's around you anyway there's nothing much you can do about it. Which is why most inners are lightly proofed, to deal with the condensation that you just won't ever be able to stop."

I have owned and re-sold 3 tarp tents. Henry Shires is a fine designer, a good business man and a reputable manufacturer. Multiple reasons, but Tarptents weren't for me.
Franco is a former or current employee, sub-contractor, representative or whatever of Tarptent. He doesn't disclose his relationship in his post as have many other representatives in WB.

So, a grain of salt.

My biggest peeve with Franco is his 100% glowing reports on every TarpTent he knows about. In other words, I have NEVER seen a post from Franco criticizing in any way his tents or explaining their weaknesses. Every tent has it flaws and weaknesses but Franco won't touch this topic.

Tarptent has many good features and many loyal owners. I did think as a "new" poster, you should know Franco's biases.

Exactly. I like how Franco "conveniently" leaves out his TarpTent disclaimer, i.e. "I work for the company."

[DuneElliot]

I hike with a dog. I assumed that Cuben fiber flooring was a no go due to dogs nails causing punctures. Is this correct?

I've had my dogs in my Duplex in crappy weather. I carry two pieces of a light-weight CCF foam pad for them to use as a bed either in or out of my tent. I keep their claws short and I haven't had a problem yet. They do usually sleep under the awning though if the weather isn't terrible.

[soumodeler]

Ah, you did find that you were readjusting it multiple times? Given that the Duplex is a single-wall tent, how does it compare to the Notch in terms of condensation in your experience? Thanks!

I have so far left the doors on it completely open and have had no issues with condensation.

[Franco]

Tipi,
You made similar comments about me well before I became part of Tarptent.
I was using Tarptent products for more than 5 years before joining the firm.
As I stated above , I simply forgot to add the disclaimer, mostly because on some forums that is part of my signature or next to my name.

[Franco]

BTW, as pointing out the downside, I never claimed that silnylon does not sag (as an example) I just point out that if the shelter is re-tensioned once the fabric has relaxed, you don't need to do it again. If you get up more than once to do it , it was not done correctly the first time.
For example , looking at your sagging silnylon second photo, at that point the fabric has stretched as far as it goes so it needs to be done only once.
Years ago , possibly before I joined Tarptent, there was a lot of discussion about misting and or penetration with some silnylon.
I pointed out at the time, on several occasions, that I had both, although penetration only happened for me from drops from tree fronds (big blobs) not directly from rain drops on the shelter.
At the time the TT silnylon waterhead (and most others) was around 1200mm, it is now around 3000 with the current fabric.

[Arc-Niner]

Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?

[soumodeler]

Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?

Not quite sure what you are asking about the Duplex? Do you mean is there anything on the tent other than the pull outs for the "roof"? No there is not. Inside there are pockets at the bottom, but on the outside there is nothing in the middle and only the door roll up closures at the edges.

As far as the Notch, it is a great tent. I still have mine even though I am now using the Duplex exclusively. There are a lot of good tents out there, but I just liked the way the Notch was built and its (for me) perfect size and weight combo.

[eggymane]

Guys, I really appreciate all the perspectives in this thread. This is all very helpful to me. It sounds like my choice is between silnylon and the sagging issues and cuben fiber with its vulnerability to punctures and high cost. Looking at the Zpacks Duplex, is that roof just a big rectangle of cuben with the pull outs in the middle? And if I decide on silnylon, is there anything better than say a Tarptent Notch?

The duplex is a good shelter, it is basically a tarp with an integrated bathtub floor with a strip of bug netting on both ends and bug net zippered entries which connects the roof to the floor. It's simple in its design which is appealing.

As far as silnylon tents, the notch is good, but you may also look at LightHeart Gear.

[Arc-Niner]

Not quite sure what you are asking about the Duplex? Do you mean is there anything on the tent other than the pull outs for the "roof"? No there is not. Inside there are pockets at the bottom, but on the outside there is nothing in the middle and only the door roll up closures at the edges.

Sorry, I wasn't being very clear. You answered my question in any case.

[Arc-Niner]

The duplex is a good shelter, it is basically a tarp with an integrated bathtub floor with a strip of bug netting on both ends and bug net zippered entries which connects the roof to the floor. It's simple in its design which is appealing.

As far as silnylon tents, the notch is good, but you may also look at LightHeart Gear.

Thanks! I'll check out LightHeart Gear as well. Does the Duplex design with the bug netting around the bottom function as designed in terms of giving condensation a way to run out of the tent without dripping on you at night? And do you wish those outer doors zippered shut instead of just overlapping with the toggle closures?

[soumodeler]

Thanks! I'll check out LightHeart Gear as well. Does the Duplex design with the bug netting around the bottom function as designed in terms of giving condensation a way to run out of the tent without dripping on you at night? And do you wish those outer doors zippered shut instead of just overlapping with the toggle closures?

The Duplex is designed to control condensation by letting it run out the ends over the bathtub floor. In theory it sounds good but I have never had any significant condensation inside so I can't say for sure.

I see no need for a zipper as the best thing to do is leave them open unless it is really raining.

[Hosh]

I appreciate your viewpoint, and I hear you about the quality of Big Agnes gear. It sounds like I am going in the other direction from you in terms of tent weight, however. I've already got a 1-person freestanding tent, and I want to see if I can go to something lighter that will still provide reliable weather protection. I might regret it, but at least I want to put a toe into that pond.

I wasn't recommending any particular tent, you asked what tents I owned.

If you like Tarptent then I would recommend the Moment DW. It's pretty roomy, very weather proof and easy to set up. It also has an inner liner available to help with condensation control.

As an aside, one of my issues with Tarptent or any single wall shelter with a bathtub floor connected to mesh, connected a ceiling is the way it receives fresh air supply. I typically camp at higher elevations, temperatures can drop 30, 40, or 50*'s overnight, winds shift direction and become more powerful with the temperature deltas. With an air intake 6"s above the ground, chilled air can come across your face and body. If I were to purchase a Moment DW, I'd get an inner liner for use under certain conditions, may not be required in the SE at low elevations.

[yaduck9]

I think getting those concerns answered will get me started (and spark more detailed questions about different models/designs). Thanks everyone.[/QUOTE]



something else to consider is the number of stakes that are required to set up a tent. For instance if one needs to use msr groundhog stakes, 0.67 oz , the oz can add up quickly, and in some cases the difference between a popular cuben fiber shelter vs a popular sil nylon shelter can come down to 2 to 3 oz.

My point is that the small details can make the differences much smaller.
One can mitigate by going to a carbon fiber stake, but then the price goes up accordingly.

one other thing is to consider what it will be like to set a specific shelter at the end of a long day in poor conditions.
YMMV

[Franco]

If I were to purchase a Moment DW, I'd get an inner liner for use under certain conditions, may not be required in the SE at low elevations
The Moment DW is a double wall tent, the liner was an accessory for the single wall first version (Moment)
It can be bought with the mesh or the "solid" (fabric) inner , as in this photo :
mtdw-20.jpg
The Notch has a mes or a partial fabric inner, like this :
nt-19.jpg
franco@tarptent

[scope]

Why do want to sleep on the ground?

For me, when I was looking for a lightweight solo tent, I ended up with a hammock setup because of how it mitigated all the concerns I had. I now have better overall coverage with enough room to cook, etc., no condensation issues ever, and I'm more comfortable. Just sayin'.

[DuneElliot]

Why do want to sleep on the ground?

For me, when I was looking for a lightweight solo tent, I ended up with a hammock setup because of how it mitigated all the concerns I had. I now have better overall coverage with enough room to cook, etc., no condensation issues ever, and I'm more comfortable. Just sayin'.

I love my Duplex and ground set-up and will keep it for trips that need it but I am migrating to hammocks for the exact same reason. Plus, I can use my winter tarp on the ground as a floorless tent/tarp as well as for the hammock.

[ggreaves]

The OP covered it before. He's an aspiring hammock guy but wants a tent for above treeline camping (and will have to live with the condensation).

[dmax]

I see a couple of mentions on the lightheartgear tents. We have one and love it. The awning is awesome. Especially when it's raining. I just wish I would have gotten the awning on both sides. The LHG tents have vents up on the peak. I'm sure that helps some with condensation. I'm suprised more tents don't have these.
I have a cuben tarp. Love it. Saving pop bottles for a cuben tent now. I just wish I had bought one a LHG cuben tents before they quit making them. You don't ever see them come up for sale on here.....

[Gambit McCrae]

Hello! This is my first post here on WB. I've been reading quite a bit here about all the different tents and shelter systems available, and I think my questions are a little more basic. I'll explain:

So I've been backpacking for years now, and all of my hear is much heavier than it needs to be. Currently I've been using an Easton Rimrock 1P tent, which weighs 50 oz. The idea of cutting that weight almost in half delights my middle-aged hiking legs on week-long trips on the trails.

I like the idea of ditching poles and using my hiking poles, but what tradeoff am I making against wind and rain?
Silnylon is lighter than what I have, and less expensive than cuben tents, but how badly does it stretch when it gets wet? (re-adjusting my pitch through a rainy night is not my idea of late-night entertainment.)
Double wall tents are a defense against interior wetness due to condensation, but are modern single-wall tents better vented to produce less of a condensation risk?

I think getting those concerns answered will get me started (and spark more detailed questions about different models/designs). Thanks everyone.

Ill give my short answer last

The trade off I have found with using trekking poles as tent poles is this and only this: If I break a pole, it effects my shelter setup. Its not going to be the end of the world, but I am going to have a less sturdy shelter for a couple nights. I have found no trade off in regards to wind and or rain.

Sylnylon tents: I have spent over 120 nights in one and have not ever gotten out in the middle of the night to adjust. However, Tipi is correct that if setup in a dropping temperature environment, the tent will require tightening the guy lines but I have always done this before going to bed for the night, or have woken up the next morning with a slightly relaxed pitch that has not ever caused any issues, just looks a bit sloppy.

SW vs DW tent: I have no experience with a SW tent, but I don't think that having an all mesh insert in a sylnylon tent is going to produce less condensation then the same tent, without the insert. Its all about ventilation. Unless it is gunna for sure come a real gully washer, or below freezing, I leave my tent doors open at night, zero condensation the next morning.

So my short answer. This option will give you the most weight reduction, while using trekking poles, with the most ventilation, and I have found over the past 6 months has givin me a whole new perspective to going to sleep, and waking up WITH nature, instead of secluding myself off to my tent at night. Tarp camping. I have a cuben tarp with a tyvek floor clothe. If you would like a little more protection, buy an insert for it with a bathtub floor and bug mesh.

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