Permethrin

[Deacon]

I don't like to wear long pants, but the threat of encountering ticks on my legs in New Hampshire and Maine is apparently a real possibility this year. I've treated all my clothes with permethrin, but am still concerned with bare legs.

My wife recently developed a rash on her back, and had a Dermtaologist examine her. The doctor said it could be a mite of some sort, and prescribed a cream that contains 5% Permethrin. She only used half the tube so I'm going to take it along for my New Hampshire/Maine section.

[lonehiker]

I don't like to wear long pants, but the threat of encountering ticks on my legs in New Hampshire and Maine is apparently a real possibility this year. I've treated all my clothes with permethrin, but am still concerned with bare legs.

My wife recently developed a rash on her back, and had a Dermtaologist examine her. The doctor said it could be a mite of some sort, and prescribed a cream that contains 5% Permethrin. She only used half the tube so I'm going to take it along for my New Hampshire/Maine section.

If applied directly to skin, enzymes (I think) will fairly quickly (20 min?) break this chemical down rendering it ineffective for what you are probably figuring on using it for. Additionally, I don't think that anyone recommends applying this to an embedded tick.

[egilbe]

Mammals, except cats, render the toxin inert when applied to skin. Unless you have hairy legs, its not going to do a damn thing to repel ticks on bare skin.

[Deadeye]

I just returned from a 4 day hike in New Hampshire tick country. My clothes were treated with Sawyer spray permethrin; my friend's were not. He found far more ticks on his clothes than I, on the order of 20-to-1, yet I was always in front. Based on that experience, I'm sending my clothes out to the professionals next year.

[Deacon]

If applied directly to skin, enzymes (I think) will fairly quickly (20 min?) break this chemical down rendering it ineffective for what you are probably figuring on using it for. Additionally, I don't think that anyone recommends applying this to an embedded tick.

Language on the back of the tube indicates it is effective 8 to 14 hours.

[lonehiker]

Language on the back of the tube indicates it is effective 8 to 14 hours.

You should do a bit more research, and maybe you are correct. But, I have read a couple of different articles over the last few years that are contradictory to that. http://tickinfo.com/permethrin.htm Read the 3rd paragraph. Another article was in Backpacker magazine many years ago but I do not remember which issue. Shouldn't be too difficult to find reference to the article. Up to you what you do but I think that you are giving yourself a false sense of security. Might also point out that the effective hours may somehow apply to the treatment of the parasite i.e. mites, lice, etc.

[Deacon]

Ok, it looks like this isn't a good choice for use as a deterrent for ticks. It would be good to use once the days hiking is done, and applied to hard to see areas, as it would kill any small mites/ticks, etc.

That said, now I'm having second thoughts about carrying the extra ounce and a half.

[TTT]

Will Permethrin remain active if clothes are washed in diluted vinegar, and will it bind to pants that are wax treated for waterproofing?

[Ethesis]

Will Permethrin remain active if clothes are washed in diluted vinegar, and will it bind to pants that are wax treated for waterproofing?

good question

my question is will wax treating pants mess up Permethrin?

[lonehiker]

My understanding is that it is more the agitation rather than the detergent that breaks the chemical bonds. But vinegar could be a different story. If treated with wax I would wonder if the chemical could form its bond. This is all speculation and you would be better served to contact someone like Sawyer products and ask them.

[BuckeyeBill]

"will it bind to pants that are wax treated for waterproofing"

According to Insect Shields website they will not treat any clothing with waterproofing or DWR treatment. The treatment they use is good for about 70 wash cycles and has always well for me because by wash cycle the clothes are well worn by then and I replace them.

[TTT]

Thanks. That basically rules out treating my Fjallraven pants which are wax coated
Soaking clothes in diluted vinegar appears to be a common practice on the AT to eliminate odor causing bacteria before or during a normal wash cycle. If it is at odds with Permethrin it becomes counterproductive which was the reasoning behind my other question. I'm also guessing that adding Aqua Mira to small wash loads would result in less of a smell as well.

[lonehiker]

Soaking clothes in diluted vinegar appears to be a common practice on the AT to eliminate odor causing bacteria before or during a normal wash cycle.

Is it? I've never heard of anyone doing it on any of the long trails I have hiked. I would guess some may do this, but to call it common practice? Maybe I'm out of touch...

[TTT]

Here's one example. I know of three more

[lonehiker]

Well I guess that makes it common practice...

[2 Samuel 22]

We treat our clothes with Sawyer Permethrin and Sawyer Picaridin for bare skin. No problem with ticks or mosquitoes here.

[Wise Old Owl]

I diluted some 10% permethrin concentrate used for livestock. It's cheap but has a strong smell so I only use it for pants.
How does the Sawyer's smell?

Some of the agricultural versions is loaded with Petroleum Distillate, Similar to Kerosene. Sawyers is water based and only has a light odor when applying. It dissipates when dry.

[Wise Old Owl]

If applied directly to skin, enzymes (I think) will fairly quickly (20 min?) break this chemical down rendering it ineffective for what you are probably figuring on using it for. Additionally, I don't think that anyone recommends applying this to an embedded tick.

Can I suggest to Decon that this is a bad idea. Just because it lasts or has a residual Its a prescription for a reason. Get it wrong and this may itch like hell. Just treat your clothes use Deep Woods Off or Ultrathon.

[Wise Old Owl]

I am posting this as an alternative to synthetic chemicals. Over time new things do come to market that present an honorable mention. Cedar Tree Oil appears to have some merit. You can apply this over and over again and it is a true repellent. You can spray directly on your dog or cat and yourself. I am still testing this myself, and there is real science behind this product and has been used in California for years, FDA and EPA approved and registered.

https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Cide-3.../dp/B003DX2JJQ

[MtDoraDave]

I just bought a pair of the Rynoskin pants, which are a very light, tightly woven nylon/lycra blend, base layer designed to keep insects from biting you without chemicals.
Sunday morning, I did 2 hours at a local preserve wearing shorts with those Rynoskin tights underneath to protect my legs - but mostly to see if they are hot to wear in the summer.
They are not hot to wear in the summer. Since they are thin and ultra light, the sweat evaporates just as quickly (if not more so) as it would from bare legs.

They claim 99.x percent effective against biting insects including ticks, fleas, and biting flies. On my 2 hour walk, I was bitten on the calf by 4 horseflies. Through the Rynoskin pants.

I'm still going to wear them in a couple weeks when I go up for my next section, but they will have been treated with permethrin. I sweat too much for applications of insect repellent to be reliable.