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Thread: probiotics?

  1. #1

    Default probiotics?

    I used to eat as much live culture yogurt as possible, to fight off the bad bacteria in my stomach from drinking untreated water. I'm not sure if it helped or not. Does anyone have a probiotic story? (For or against) I'm debating bringing some along with regular multivitamins.

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    Having healthy digestive and immune systems is significant to me too both on and off trail. Seeing that between 60,000,000 to 70,000,000 MILLION U.S. citizens have digestive disorders alone according to the CDC, NCBI, and ANA(American Nutrition Assoc.) probiotics and an anti anti-probiotic lifestyle are a large part of addressing this. Yogurt gets the spotlight but fermented foods more often have a MUCH higher probation count and variety of strains. Miso(no MSG added), tempeh, the in town Kambucha, occasional fermented vegetable such as Kimchi, sauerkraut, pickle, or ginger(at Sushi bars, delish), dark REAL chocolate, occasional RAW Goat Cheese in moderation, and rarer ginger beer fits the probiotic bill. If you find kefir that has excellent probiotics too.

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    Right on Dogwood. I'll add that Mango Lassi (basically yogurt/kefir thing) is an amazing treat. :-)



    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Having healthy digestive and immune systems is significant to me too both on and off trail. Seeing that between 60,000,000 to 70,000,000 MILLION U.S. citizens have digestive disorders alone according to the CDC, NCBI, and ANA(American Nutrition Assoc.) probiotics and an anti anti-probiotic lifestyle are a large part of addressing this. Yogurt gets the spotlight but fermented foods more often have a MUCH higher probation count and variety of strains. Miso(no MSG added), tempeh, the in town Kambucha, occasional fermented vegetable such as Kimchi, sauerkraut, pickle, or ginger(at Sushi bars, delish), dark REAL chocolate, occasional RAW Goat Cheese in moderation, and rarer ginger beer fits the probiotic bill. If you find kefir that has excellent probiotics too.
    Let me go

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    Let me go

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    Yes, I take a pro biotic daily. Yep, it does appear to be important and it creates noticeable benefit. But I've learned it is very hard to talk to others about it. People tend to place "what you eat" into the category of quackery. Marketing has done this to people. The belief most have seems to be that some government agency makes sure the food we eat is what our bodies need. Which is really ironic considering that most people do not trust the same large corporations that make their food.

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    My story is while hiking the LT in 2013, a deep cut on my leg developed infection. Doctor on duty at Rutland walk-in clinic gave me script for Augmentin. Within 24 hours I developed severe diarrhea, so bad I had to run in the woods almost every hour while hiking. Dehydration followed, even with drinking a lot of water.
    One miserable night in Skyline Lodge I had to run to the privy in 38 degree rain almost every couple hours. So when I got to Waitsfield, I immediately stopped at that grocery store, and picked up a box of Culturelle probiotics. Took a zero in Waitsfield to get re-hydrated, rest and did double dosage on the Culturelle.

    It did the trick, within 24 hours all was better. I still take Culturelle at home, and take it with me on every hike or trip, especially overseas travel. Culturelle comes in capsules and does not require refrigeration. Yogurt and the other fermented foods mentioned are great too.

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    The problem with any probiotics is that you have no idea how many actual living cultures you are ingesting (or are even alive once they hit the store shelves). I was at a NIH lecture and they indicated that suppositories where the only efficient delivery mechanism for probiotics. I am not a Dr. or an expert by any means but I found it interesting.

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    Fermented foods are the best bet, you can’t be sure what mix of probiotics you are getting in a supplement, they may vary significantly from what they claim to include.

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    Poop transplants from healthy persons apparently have worked wonders for persons that had their own flora destroyed by antibiotics. After struggled with issues for years. Probiotics, etc not help.

    Yup its exactly what you might think
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 10-26-2018 at 10:26.

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    The OP mentioned taking a "regular multivitamin". I is important to understand that multivitamins and probiotics are completely different things.

    I agree with the replies above that say a healthy internal microbiome is important for good health. There is also some evidence that a healthy external microbiome is also important. Americans' obsession with showering everyday is misguided. Hikers have an advantage here: hiker funk may be good for you. I also agree with the comments above that the best way to maintain your internal microbiome is through a diverse diet and that fermented foods are a good source of this. Here hikers may be at a disadvantage in that our diets are not always that diverse and rich in these probiotic rich foods. However again, Americans' obsession with sanitation works against us. How many "How long does cheese last?" threads have there been here? Americans are obsessed with refrigerating foods and are hesitant to take anything out of the refrigerator and put it in your backpack. But refrigerators have only been around for 100 years. In the previous 100,000 years of human history, we got by preserving food by a variety of methods, including fermentation. I speculate that the vast majority of fermented foods are ancient technologies developed for the purpose of food preservation. The point is that we as hikers could probably benefit from being a bit more aggressive at including these types of foods in our hiking diet, despite the dire warnings from the FDA about food spoilage.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Poop transplants from healthy persons apparently have worked wonders for persons that had their own flora destroyed by antibiotics. After struggled with issues for years. Probiotics, etc not help. Yup its exactly what you might think
    In my career as a scientist, I have attended my fair share of biology seminars. I recall one in particular where the biologist was studying the advantages of coprophagy in wildlife populations. All I could think is how biologists are good at coming up with cool words to name really disgusting things.

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    It's my understanding that the benefits of probiotics are generally overstated, because the microbiome in your gut is vastly more complex and (and personalized) than any active good bacteria you get in a probiotic food or supplement. That's why a fecal microbiotal transplant (in capsule form), preferably previously sourced from your healthy self (or a close relative) is the best way to re-establish a healthy gut microbiome after having it wiped out from medication.

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    I was very reluctant against probiotics, especially as some esoteric people advertised it here back home.
    Finally realized that my wife is using probiotic (different brand that I would not reconize without she telling me) for hausehold cleaning since years, with good success.
    Then I happened to get to know a guy in person who is selling this stuff for use in hospitals as a profession, and he told me real life stories that were really amazing.
    He says, this is the stuff he belives in and he's very lucky that after so many years of selling crap, basically cheating on people, he has this one product he belives in and has lots of proof that it works.

    Personally I'm using it to prevent mold in my old garage and barn and it really works, since two years now.
    Next spring I'll apply it to my grapes to prevent mildew, we'll see how it works out.

    I would NOT eat/drink it on a regular basis. Just a few single shots when you're in trouble should be enough.
    The way it works is, you provoke an "infection" by the good germs and barm that probiotic is, and those good germs are strong and reproduce quick while pushing aside (basically, eating all food from) the bad germs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef4 View Post
    ...you can’t be sure what mix of probiotics you are getting in a supplement...
    That can be true. It doesn't have to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by jungleland1972 View Post
    The problem with any probiotics is that you have no idea how many actual living cultures you are ingesting (or are even alive once they hit the store shelves). I was at a NIH lecture and they indicated that suppositories where the only efficient delivery mechanism for probiotics. I am not a Dr. or an expert by any means but I found it interesting.
    No need for being a M.D. to, just like anything else, do your own research, much like a M.D. would.
    https://consumershealthreport.com/pr...d18124f17aFind reputable sources that have been independently evaluated.

    Here are other helpful guidelines: https://www.livescience.com/56611-probiotics-myths.html


    Situations vary. Fecal microbial transplants MAY or MAY NOT be the best way to re-establish - and sustain - a healthy gut micro biome after having it wiped out from medication. Talk to health care practitioners informed of and open to multiple medical system approaches more qualified than someone posting on a hiking forum and you'll get the same answer. Here's one example: What if the personal microbiome is already compromised as is so often the situation? Where is the, as you say, vastly complex personalized active probiotic containing fecal matter coming from? Is it that optimal to capsule consuming someone else's fecal matter?

    Including probiotic and PRE biotic nourishing 'live' unprocessed real food not food like substances, fermented foods(GREAT source of probiotics!), and taking a high quality probiotic can all assist off trail and especially on trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Personally I'm using it(probiotics) to prevent mold in my old garage and barn and it really works, since two years now.
    Next spring I'll apply it to my grapes to prevent mildew, we'll see how it works out.

    I would NOT eat/drink it on a regular basis. Just a few single shots when you're in trouble should be enough.
    That's interesting. I was unaware.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    ... Marketing has done this to people...
    I'd call that a double-edged sword. "Marketing" sells a whole bunch of useless supplements, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadeye View Post
    I'd call that a double-edged sword. "Marketing" sells a whole bunch of useless supplements, too.
    They are making America Great Ag..n...economically. Sorry, I gotta go. The mailman is here delivering dog medications that are of SOOO much use.


    Consider the detrimental decades long over prescribing and rampant over use of antibiotics as one of the major causal culprits of the greater interest in and need for microbiome health and understanding. "Here take this antibiotic script just in case" has been the "professional" lab coat wearing framed diploma toting western medical norm for decades. cha ching cha ching That's not even how or where most of the antibiotics are used in the U.S. It's in your livestock. It's known to be in public water supplies it's so rampant. Talk about marketing...?

  17. #17
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    Consider the detrimental decades long over prescribing and rampant over use of antibiotics as one of the major causal culprits of the greater interest in and need for microbiome health and understanding. "Here take this antibiotic script just in case" has been the "professional" lab coat wearing framed diploma toting western medical norm for decades. cha ching cha ching That's not even how or where most of the antibiotics are used in the U.S. It's in your livestock. It's known to be in public water supplies it's so rampant. Talk about marketing...?[/QUOTE]


    I'm not disagreeing with you at all... I'm just not buying the other hype hook, line, and sinker, either.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    I used to eat as much live culture yogurt as possible, to fight off the bad bacteria in my stomach from drinking untreated water. I'm not sure if it helped or not. Does anyone have a probiotic story? (For or against) I'm debating bringing some along with regular multivitamins.
    Possibly stating the obvious here, but have you considered filtering water to avoid the issue in the first place?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    I was very reluctant against probiotics, especially as some esoteric people advertised it here back home.
    Finally realized that my wife is using probiotic (different brand that I would not reconize without she telling me) for hausehold cleaning since years, with good success.
    Then I happened to get to know a guy in person who is selling this stuff for use in hospitals as a profession, and he told me real life stories that were really amazing.
    He says, this is the stuff he belives in and he's very lucky that after so many years of selling crap, basically cheating on people, he has this one product he belives in and has lots of proof that it works.

    Personally I'm using it to prevent mold in my old garage and barn and it really works, since two years now.
    Next spring I'll apply it to my grapes to prevent mildew, we'll see how it works out.

    I would NOT eat/drink it on a regular basis. Just a few single shots when you're in trouble should be enough.
    The way it works is, you provoke an "infection" by the good germs and barm that probiotic is, and those good germs are strong and reproduce quick while pushing aside (basically, eating all food from) the bad germs.
    What is the name of the product?

  20. #20

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    Google Search
    This might be related to what LEO L. posted about:

    Abstract


    PURPOSE:

    Many hospital-acquired infections (HAIs) can be transmitted by pathogens contaminating hospital surfaces, not efficiently controlled by conventional sanitation, which can indeed contribute to the selection of MDR strains. Bacteriophages have been suggested as decontaminating agents, based on their selective ability to kill specific bacteria. However, there are no data on their stability in detergents and their potential use in routine sanitation. On the other hand, a probiotic-based sanitation system (Probiotic Cleaning Hygiene System, PCHS) was recently shown to stably reduce pathogens on treated surfaces. However, its action is not specific and slow, being based on competitive antagonism. This work aimed to assess the effectiveness of a combined use of phages and PCHS in removing HAI-associated pathogens from different hard surfaces.
    MATERIALS AND METHODS:

    The decontamination ability of phages in PCHS was tested in vitro and in situ, against drug-susceptible or resistant Staphylococcus aureus, Escherichia coli, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa strains, and using bacterial densities similar to those detected on hospital surfaces.
    RESULTS:

    Phages targeted efficiently all tested bacteria, maintaining their full activity when added to the PCHS detergent. Notably, the combined use of phages and PCHS not only resulted in a rapid reduction (up to >90%) of the targeted pathogens, but also, due to the stabilizing effect of probiotics, the pathogens were maintained at low levels (>99%) at later times too, when instead the effect of phages tends to diminish.
    CONCLUSION:

    These results suggest that a combined biological system might be successfully used in hospital sanitation protocols, potentially leading to effective and safe elimination of MDR pathogens from the hospital environment.

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