Camping DIRECTLY on trail

[Bronk]

I don't poop where I sleep but I have pre dug holes against middle of the night needs.

I have wondered on shared use trails why dog owners have to clean up but not horse owners.

Bingo. One reason I hate trails that allow horses. No effort to clean up after them is ever made and they think nothing of leaving a five pound load of crap in the middle of the trail.

[Greenlight]

I don't sleep where I poop

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[Dogwood]

Dog owners definitely don't always clean up after their dogs. Equestrians by far are more conscientious and responsible for their own and their animal's behavior than dog owners are about their and their dog's behavior. Rarely have I seen a dog owner bag, carry out, and then discard their dog's pooh in a garbage can after an overnight backpacking trip. In remote trail settings it's non existent to witness this dog owner behavior. I don't carry my dog's pooh out either but I take my dog(s) off trail away from water sources occasionally on a leash to do their biz. Sometimes they go;sometimes they do not...which is more that I need to be vigilantly responsible for while backpacking or hiking. I've only twice seen equestrians bag their horse's manure and carry it out which is saying something considering the size a horse normally defecates daily. Equestrians are far more conscientious of their animals consequences to water sources than dog owners. By far equestrian laws are adhered to more by equestrians than dog laws, such as leash laws, adhered to by dog owners.

Have seen a few equestrians with shovels or rakes removing horse or stock manure off the trail or away from campsite areas. Overall, this is a rarity.

Cat, dog, and human feces are smellier than horse manure. Fresh horse and stock urine pooled in the center of the trail in hot weather is not something I wish to smell or encounter. In cold weather skidding upon frozen yellowish puddles of stock urine ice is of little anticipated fun.

Dog and human feces, being that these species are carnivores and omnivores, are more likely to spread disease than horses which are herbivores. For example, dog and human feces are more likely to spread bacteria like E.coli and parasites to humans. Horse manure typically contains grass, hay, and grains. I don't like stepping in horse manure as much as anyone else but I'd rather step in grass, hay, and grain feces resembling clumps of wet grass if given the choice than smelly cat, dog, or human feces containing decomposing animal proteins and whatever else was consumed by these animals.

[Bearleg]

It's not ok to camp on the trail if it leads to the privy


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[Tipi Walter]

Bingo. One reason I hate trails that allow horses. No effort to clean up after them is ever made and they think nothing of leaving a five pound load of crap in the middle of the trail.

The biggest reason I hate horses on hiking trails is because the damage these 1,000 lb beasts with their steel hooves do to the treadway. This applies to the Southeast.

They step off narrow trails and create big divots thereby collapsing parts of the outer edge of the trail.

They churn up creek crossings into mud pits and turn muddy trails into quagmires almost impossible for a foot traveler to hike through. If you don't believe me go to the Mt Rogers backcountry and study horse damage in the Lewis Fork and Little Wilson Creek wilderness areas.

Plus, horses have not been indigenous to the North American continent for the last 10,000 years. Take note wildlife experts and invasive species experts.

[Patriot76]

Camping on the trail is an old emergency signal much like flashing lights with the hood up for a vehicle. I am from the old school of the early 70's backpacking, hunting, fishing, and a combination of the three. The only reason I would camp on the trail is if I can no longer help myself and need help. In this case I would try to stay awake and enjoy the shelter. If I found a camp on the trail I would stop to see if they are okay, or need help. This is a great way to educate the novice without causing conflict.

As far as dung in the wilderness, it is natural. I do not expect anyone to pack it out, it is a fertilizer. Removing it from the trail or within eyesight is a common courtesy. By the way, Native Americans counted on dung for their fires for cooking.

[Elaikases]

The Knobstone Trail in southern Indiana is a 60 miler where a lot of the "illegal" established camps are right on the trail. It is still considered bad form to put up tents, start a fire and such. But if I was hiking thru I'd take in stride.


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I noticed that about the approach trail to Springer Mountain as well.

[Pony]

I don't see a problem with it for the most part. I've done it several times. On July 4 2010 I camped right on top of the NY/NJ state line. Woke up at 5 and nobody noticed or cared. Honestly it's probably better than creating a spot that's not already trampled by people.

[George]

I am with LW on this one - I have done it many times, granted I am mostly far off season

[glassman]

Under what circumstances is it OK to camping DIRECTLY on the trail, not right next to it but on it. This is a general trail etiquette question not specific to the AT.

So the one time I came close to camping "on trail" was an attempt at a night hike that was a failure. We camped within 100 ft of trail.No I am not proud of this, but....... at the time it seemed what was best. The way I was ok with this decision was that we were super low impact camping.
When we left in am we made sure to LNT

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[Elaikases]

I posted this because of a discussion on a PCT facebook page, not so much the actual post below but of some of the comments. I have camped directly on the trail before but under very specific conditions. In general I thought it was pretty clear trail etiquette but I am really wondering if it is as clear as I thought it was hence the question.

Attachment 39044

It is as clear as you thought. Some people.

[Elaikases]

That is, during times people are using a trail, you don't camp on it unless it is an emergency. There are AT campgrounds within 50' or less of the trail in Georgia. There are campgrounds in the "no camping" approach trail zone that are within 10' of the trail.

But, some people are just proud of whatever they do (like the one in the facebook post). So it doesn't matter to them.

[Tipi Walter]

Time to kill before my next trip so I might as well post some Almost-On-Trail Campsites I've used---

57-12 I make it to Brown Fork Gap where there is water-XL.jpg
This is right on the AT near Brown Fork Gap. Near the Brown Fork shelter but mercifully far away from the chortling idiots.

Trip 156 240-XL.jpg
This is also on the AT and south of Fontana near Walker Gap. Right on the trail but far enough from the Cable Gap shelter to avoid the howling monkey humans.

TRIP 134 080-L.jpg
This is in Peels Gap near Tate Gap on the BMT---right on the BMT.

TRIP 139 011-L.jpg
This is also on the BMT (thankfully few to none trail shelters on this trail) and right on the trail in Cold Spring Gap.

TRIP 148 563-XL.jpg
This is a camp right on the Grassy Branch trail in the Citico wilderness.

TRIP 153 405-XL.jpg
This is on the South Fork Citico trail.

P1000124-XL.jpg
Finally, this is actually right in the middle of the trail---Basin Lead trail near Bald River wilderness in TN.

[rocketsocks]

Time to kill before my next trip so I might as well post some Almost-On-Trail Campsites I've used---

57-12 I make it to Brown Fork Gap where there is water-XL.jpg
This is right on the AT near Brown Fork Gap. Near the Brown Fork shelter but mercifully far away from the chortling idiots.

Trip 156 240-XL.jpg
This is also on the AT and south of Fontana near Walker Gap. Right on the trail but far enough from the Cable Gap shelter to avoid the howling monkey humans.

TRIP 134 080-L.jpg
This is in Peels Gap near Tate Gap on the BMT---right on the BMT.

TRIP 139 011-L.jpg
This is also on the BMT (thankfully few to none trail shelters on this trail) and right on the trail in Cold Spring Gap.

TRIP 148 563-XL.jpg
This is a camp right on the Grassy Branch trail in the Citico wilderness.

TRIP 153 405-XL.jpg
This is on the South Fork Citico trail.

P1000124-XL.jpg
Finally, this is actually right in the middle of the trail---Basin Lead trail near Bald River wilderness in TN.

All exceptable camp sites to me, though 5 and 7 need a little tidying-up
Not that I'm "a place for everything and everything in it's place" guy

[rafe]

Spelling Abuse Notification: exceptable is not acceptable.

[Bronk]

The biggest reason I hate horses on hiking trails is because the damage these 1,000 lb beasts with their steel hooves do to the treadway.

I've been on trails where the trail looks like a ditch that is 1 to 2 feet deep because horses have damaged the treadway and it when it rains water flows and washes it out further.

[rafe]

One of my two transgressions...

Months later at a campsite in the Hundred Mile Wilderness, I met the hiker who had passed me on the trail that night.

[rocketsocks]

Spelling Abuse Notification: exceptable is not acceptable.

thank yew

[English Stu]

In the 100 mile wilderness I was in a small clearing and was tented say 5metre on one side of the trail and a buddy was a similar distance away on the other side. In the night there was a commotion which we took to be a Moose charging through. I had similar experience it the UK with loose horse galloping through a campsite. Certainly the wildlife use of the trail needs thinking about.

[scope]

I don't sleep where I poop

I'll never look at what I thought was bear scat the same way.


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