Do I need a shelter in smokies

[phicker]

Just reserved my shelters for a section hike trough the SMNP on the AT. So my question is, "should I still carry a shelter or can I be absolutely sure that I'll get my space in shelters?" I am sorry if this has been discussed in other post but I was just wondering. THANKS, Old Guy

[TJ aka Teej]

Always carry a shelter.

[illabelle]

phicker,
If you arrive at a shelter after others have filled it, especially if it's raining, or even if it's just getting dark, having a reservation entitles you to nothing more than the ability to politely request that someone vacate. If no one volunteers, you're stuck. Even if you carry only an emergency bivy or tarp, you should carry some kind of shelter for your safety.

It may also equip you to help someone else if you encounter someone who is injured or otherwise in need.

[bigcranky]

No. If you arrive at a shelter in the rain, and it's full of hikers, you may ask one or more to leave the shelter. If no one volunteers, you may have them forcibly ejected out into the rain. It's just like flying United

[HooKooDooKu]

I always worry that either a nail or splinter in the shelter might harm my mattress, so I carry a tarp to put under the mattress to protect it... I just make sure it's a large enough tarp that I could use it as an emergency shelter.

[evyck da fleet]

Or if you arrive at a shelter and it's packed you can can set up your tent/hammock and enjoy a nice sleep away from the snorers, hikers with loud mattresses and mice that will be occupying the shelter. Then again sleeping on the ground under the roofed picnic table would be an option for those without a shelter at some sites.

[Uncle Joe]

The shelter situation is one thing that puts me off hiking in the Smokies.

[TNhiker]

Or if you arrive at a shelter and it's packed you can can set up your tent/hammock and enjoy a nice sleep away from the snorers, hikers with loud mattresses and mice that will be occupying the shelter. Then again sleeping on the ground under the roofed picnic table would be an option for those without a shelter at some sites.

Not as a section hiker....

a section hiker will still need reservations and stay in the shelter...

[bigcranky]

Not as a section hiker....

a section hiker will still need reservations and stay in the shelter...

Yes, but, when the section hiker with a reservation shows up and the shelter is full, he or she needs to be prepared to either (1) throw someone else out of the shelter, or (2) camp nearby. I would greatly prefer #2 for all sorts of reasons.

[TNhiker]

Yes, but, when the section hiker with a reservation shows up and the shelter is full, he or she needs to be prepared to either (1) throw someone else out of the shelter, or (2) camp nearby. I would greatly prefer #2 for all sorts of reasons.

not legally as a section hiker can option 2 be applied...

that would be for thru hikers which the park defines as starting and finishing 50 miles before and after the Park...

[bigcranky]

not legally as a section hiker can option 2 be applied...

that would be for thru hikers which the park defines as starting and finishing 50 miles before and after the Park...

Technically true. However, if the shelter is full, I do not feel comfortable (nor is it my job) removing someone else. I would simply explain that to a ranger and trust it would be ok.

[Lyle]

"Do I need a shelter in smokies"

Yes

[Uncle Joe]

Technically true. However, if the shelter is full, I do not feel comfortable (nor is it my job) removing someone else. I would simply explain that to a ranger and trust it would be ok.

Agreed. I seriously doubt the park service expects anyone to throw someone out of a shelter. Or even ask them to vacate, for that matter. I'm a fellow hiker and have zero authority. That might be a good way to incite a provocation. Camping seems the prudent choice.

[TNhiker]

Agreed. I seriously doubt the park service expects anyone to throw someone out of a shelter. Or even ask them to vacate, for that matter. I'm a fellow hiker and have zero authority. That might be a good way to incite a provocation. Camping seems the prudent choice.

To a certain degree this is correct...

however I've heard stories of rangers showing up at a shelter and escorting people out of them if they do not have a permit...

[Gambit McCrae]

My direct experience with this smokies shelter issue: I have hiked the GSMNP twice, and doing the northern half this weekend. The first time I did it was dead middle of the thru bubble. There were 50+ people every night at the shelters, I got my spot and didn't have to boot anyone. People would mosey around until the shelter was full, then happily set up their tents.

Before my trip: I called the backcountry GSMNP office and asked: What do you expect a section hiker to do that shows up to a shelter full of thru hikers, when I have been specifically told to stay in the shelters. They would not answer my question, "that's a hard spot to be in". So, This weekend I will be bringing my 1p TT, and am a pretty long legged fast paced hiker, and will more then likely arrive at the shelter before 24 other people do and will have a spot, and my ear plugs, and a spot of the ol' cough medicine* and every single thing will work out A Okay.

To a certain degree this is correct...

however I've heard stories of rangers showing up at a shelter and escorting people out of them if they do not have a permit...

And this happened to me on my second smokies trip. (Not part of my 2 smokies AT complietions - Well before that), I thought I just had to fill out the permit and hang it. Whelp the next morning at Mollies ridge, A ridgrunner checked my bogus permit (woops), and radiod down to cades cove. We were told to head down to cades cove and to the visitor center. Trip over.

[BuckeyeBill]

In GSMNP four shelter spots are "reserved" for thru-hikers. Personally I think I would try to arrive as later and hope the shelter was full. I would much rather set up my tarp and hammock than sleep in a mouse infested, stinky hiker filled shelter. YMMV

[Turk6177]

You are going to hope that the shelters are full so you can camp in a tent (unless it is raining of course). That is said half in jest, but i would bring at least a ground cloth and a tarp to cover you in the event that you do not have a space in a shelter.

[Gambit McCrae]

From the GSMNP Regs website:
Appalachian Trail Thru-Hiker Backcountry Permit

You may obtain an AT thru hiker permit through this site.
IMPORTANT! To qualify for an AT Thru-Hiker Permit, you must begin and end your hike at least 50 miles outside Great Smoky Mountains National Park and only travel on the AT in the park. Hikers not meeting this definition should apply for a General Backcountry Permit
All users are strongly encouraged to read the basic permit information below before acquiring a permit.
Permits obtained through this system are issued by email. If you do not have an email address, please contact the Backcountry Office at 865-436-1297.
Basic Trip Planning Information

• Permits are required for all overnight stays in the backcountry.
• Each thru-hiker must obtain a separate permit.
• You must have a paper copy of your permit with you at all times while hiking through Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Please follow the instructions on your permit once you get to the park.
• You may obtain an AT Thru-Hiker Permit up to 30 days in advance of the date you anticipate arriving in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
• There is a cost of $20.00 per permit. The cost of the permit is non-refundable.
• A Thru-Hiker Permit is valid for up to 38 days from the date you obtain it. Thru-Hikers have 8 days to get through the Smokies. A break to rest or resupply in a nearby town does not negate one's standing as a thru-hiker.
• Thru-Hikers may tent in the immediate area around shelters only if the shelter is full. Thru-hikers are required to stay in shelters when there is space available. Thru-Hikers must always give up bunk space in shelters to those with shelter reservations.
• You are responsible for compliance with all park regulations and are responsible for your own safety. To keep the AT Thru-Hiker experience as unrestricted as possible, it is important that Thru-Hikers are diligent in following all regulations and consistently practice Leave No Trace principles.
• To help ensure that your trip is safe and enjoyable, we strongly encourage you to read Things You Need to Know before planning your trip or completing a reservation.
• Backpacking in the Smokies is much more challenging than many people realize. Additional trip planning assistance may be obtained through the Backcountry Information Office by calling 865-436-1297.

In GSMNP four shelter spots are "reserved" for thru-hikers. Personally I think I would try to arrive as later and hope the shelter was full. I would much rather set up my tarp and hammock than sleep in a mouse infested, stinky hiker filled shelter. YMMV

Unless they changed it I believe it is only 2 spots reserved for thru's

[BuckeyeBill]

I have no reason to doubt you Gambit. I would still rather hang.

[MtDoraDave]

phicker,
If you arrive at a shelter after others have filled it, especially if it's raining, or even if it's just getting dark, having a reservation entitles you to nothing more than the ability to politely request that someone vacate. If no one volunteers, you're stuck. Even if you carry only an emergency bivy or tarp, you should carry some kind of shelter for your safety.

It may also equip you to help someone else if you encounter someone who is injured or otherwise in need.

Yeah, that.

If I'm hiking somewhere overnight(s), I WILL have a shelter of some kind.