Bear spray.

[Alligator]

I don't carry either while hiking. The odds of it being helpful seem pretty remote to me. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of our government officials.

That's just out of line. Park rangers are law enforcement officers. They run into some of the same criminal activity that regular police officers do, in both the parks and forests, including drunks, drugs, and violent criminals. Plus they are the ones that get called if there is a nuisance bear. They may have to actually do something about a bear rather than just being able to walk away from the situation. A different level of risk and an uncalled for comment.

[scope]

I don't know why at 53 years old you need to come to an anonymous board to seek affirmation from strangers to carry bear spray. Will you need it? - probably not. If park police in NJ (where possession is illegal) catch you with it will there be an issue? - depends on the officer. Bottom line is that you need to do what puts you in your comfort zone - and don't worry about what others think. If having it reduces anxiety and makes for a more enjoyable experience, that in and of itself is a reason to bring it - and there is nothing wrong with that decision.

So, I'm trying to understand why my age has anything to do with anything. I probably shouldn't be bothered about it, but the more I think about it, the more I am bothered about it. I'm trying to understand the thought process that leads you to believe that I'm want of affirmation here with regard to bear spray. Based on the NJ reference, I think you may be getting my post mixed up with someone else's - you know you can select multiple posts to quote, right?

Basically, I fail to see ANY reference to what you said having ANY tie to what I said. Why the attitude?

[Alligator]

So, I'm trying to understand why my age has anything to do with anything. I probably shouldn't be bothered about it, but the more I think about it, the more I am bothered about it. I'm trying to understand the thought process that leads you to believe that I'm want of affirmation here with regard to bear spray. Based on the NJ reference, I think you may be getting my post mixed up with someone else's - you know you can select multiple posts to quote, right?

Basically, I fail to see ANY reference to what you said having ANY tie to what I said. Why the attitude?

Offshore is referring to NJ because you said "...any other bear territory." Lots of bears in NJ and the AT runs through there. Saw a bear there myself, coming up to a small hill. I glanced up the hill, saw an animal and stopped. Immediate thought was "Is that a dog...no heads too big. It's a gangly looking bear, not fully filled out. I tried to ease my camera out but as soon as I moved it took off to the right. I proceeded up the hill. As I am nearing the top, in the bushes on my left I hear something rustling. I look over to see patches of black fur slowly moving through the bushes. I didn't see it fully, but judging from how high off the ground the fur was, I judged it to be a really big bear, and likely a momma bear as the other bear while not a cub, was not full grown. I was also now in the middle of both bears, so I kept walking. Just after the top of the hill, the trail turned LEFT, the same way the momma bear was walking. At which point I just stoppedd and waited for her to trundle off. Which she did.

[scope]

Offshore is referring to NJ because you said "...any other bear territory."...

Nah, failing to see ANY direct correlation. Maybe a made up one. Just don't like my words being twisted, that's all.

[Alligator]

Which, of course, IS a manner of saying it, so thank you for that.

Given what I now know, I would carry bear spray - for sure in the Smokies if not anywhere on the AT or any other bear territory trail. So, if I had bear spray on this trip, you know what would've changed about the video? Nothing. I fail to understand why making the video makes me stupid, or for that matter, why the other boys in the selfie pic were stupid. Because they were doing something other than running (i.e. showing fear)?

I don't know why at 53 years old you need to come to an anonymous board to seek affirmation from strangers to carry bear spray. Will you need it? - probably not. If park police in NJ (where possession is illegal) catch you with it will there be an issue? - depends on the officer. Bottom line is that you need to do what puts you in your comfort zone - and don't worry about what others think. If having it reduces anxiety and makes for a more enjoyable experience, that in and of itself is a reason to bring it - and there is nothing wrong with that decision.

So, I'm trying to understand why my age has anything to do with anything. I probably shouldn't be bothered about it, but the more I think about it, the more I am bothered about it. I'm trying to understand the thought process that leads you to believe that I'm want of affirmation here with regard to bear spray. Based on the NJ reference, I think you may be getting my post mixed up with someone else's - you know you can select multiple posts to quote, right?
Basically, I fail to see ANY reference to what you said having ANY tie to what I said. Why the attitude?

Nah, failing to see ANY direct correlation. Maybe a made up one. Just don't like my words being twisted, that's all.

Let me start by saying that use of the phrase "if not" can be ambiguous.

The usage authority Bryan A. Garner says “if not” can mean either “but not” or “maybe even.”Writing in Garner’s Modern American Usage (3rd ed.), he says it’s “often an ambiguous phrase to be avoided.”

In your first quoted post, it appears to me that you mean "maybe even". Your statement is that you will would now carry bear spray in GSMNP and maybe even the whole AT or other bear territory trail. Your use of "if not" to mean "but not" really doesn't appear to be your meaning. So when you said "Based on the NJ reference,..." I pointed out why Offshore was using NJ as a reference. I was not providing agreement with his interpretation of your switch to now wanting to carry spray that occurred while talking to strangers on an anonymous board. (The part in italics is true, the rest I don't know.) But yes he was talking to you.
As far as your video, and to get the discussion back to bear spray, if you had been carrying bear spray, you should have done something different for sure. You would have moved it from its holster to your hand immediately upon spotting that bear. Otherwise it would have been useless. If that bear wanted to attack you, it could cover that ground in 1-2 seconds. You want to put out a cloud that bear will contact. Read the instructions if you get one, I read a set some time ago but can't recall all of it. You wouldn't want to be fumbling for the spray while the bear is biting your neck. I will not call it stupid, but the other thing you might have done differently was to not get another inch closer to that bear. As you had your camera out, it's not clear when you first saw the bear and whether you continued moving forward upon doing so. You did move forward slightly to get a better video of the bear. It appears in the video that your movement caused the bear to look back a few times and even stop. Left off the trail would likely have been a better route. Your intended direction of travel is not important at that stage.
Tips from GSMNP:
https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/nature/black-bears.htm

[Alligator]

And lay off the personal attacks too folks.

[perdidochas]

I beg to differ, in part.

According to one manufacturer, it's not the OC but the % of major capsaicinoids that matter.
https://www.sabrered.com/formulation...rength-and-law
my personal pepper spray is 1.33%; my bear spray - made by a different manufacturer - is 2.0%.

So if it's true that major capsaicinoids are the true measure, then the bear spray is stronger, and as you note, more voluminous, and with greater range.

Another point, sometimes made, but often overlooked - "fatality by bear" is not the only risk that bear-spray carrying hikers seek to reduce. If it was, I'd more readily leave bear spray at home when hiking in bear country. But it's not the only concern. "Injury by bear" is another. Reducing risk of fatality or injury at the hands of other dangerous animals might be an unintended side benefit too.

Plus it looks cool in a holster.

Bear spray can't be more than 2% OC. Human spray can be 15% OC (3% MC).

http://www.udap.com/mm5/category/wor...-pepper-sprays

[zippyd8]

It depends where you're hiking

[MuddyWaters]

I only saw one of those 140 bears I was passing near. I looked up to see why a stick or nut had fallen from a tree about 15 or so feet away. A black bear was sliding down the tree like a firefighter. I ran for my life. When I looked back at the bear...it was running for its life too...the other way.

I heard rustling in a treetop next to trail while hiking once. Way up. Like 50 ft up.
So I stopped, looked around, looked up and seen something moving and limbs a shaking. . I thinks....thats a really big racoon. Its coming down the trunk and i realizes its a bear. So I yells, " hey bear, stay in that tree". It dont pay no attention. Down it comes butt first in just a couple seconds.. When it gets even with me, 5 ft off ground or so, it looks at me and we stare at each other for a second or so, its about 10 ft from me. I said something like " shoo bear" , dont remember exactly. It drops to ground with a thud, and takes off in other direction like bat out of hell.

[VatoGato]

I'm no expert on bears but I would second the general consensus that bear spray in most cases is unnecessary for the east coast where there are only black bears. I've seen many black bears and most of the time I only saw their butts as they are running away. I had one instance where I was less than 10 yards away from 2 cubs and I was very nervous in that situation and kind of wished I had some deterrent. Fortunately didn't see mama bear and got out of their quickly after shooting a quick video. <- probably stupid to stop and take a video looking back on the experience. Also had an experience where a large black bear was stalking me and a friend through the bushes and got within 10 feet of us but it quickly ran away when we stood up. IMHO black bears are really just like large raccoons. They can be curious, and if you try to feed them you might get bitten otherwise they tend to leave you alone. If I were to walk through the Appalachians again I would carry a small thing of mace but not for bears but for irresponsible people and their dogs. I don't know anyone who was bit by a bear but have two friends who were bit by dogs on the trail.

[Slow Trek]

In reference to the hiker attacked in his tent last year- while hiking the south half of the trail last year,we spent a night in a shelter with a bear problem. With us was the bear control ranger for the park. We watched him and his partner shoot the problem bear with a tranqualizer gun,take a blood sample for DNA testing,tatoo his lip with an ID number,pull a tooth to check his age,and attach a GPS tracking collar,all in about 15 minutes. When the bear woke up,they chased him down the mountain away from the shelter. This ranger was involved with the case of the hiker who was bit on the leg. The leg to which he had applied coconut scented sunscreen. Of the bears killed after the event.none had the same DNA matching the sample from his wound. Bears have an incredible sense of smell,and are always seeking food. Coconut is food. We saw 21 bears between Springer and Harpers Ferry last year,including the one I just described. He is the only one who did not run when we met. No bear spray for me,but I sure as hell will not sleep near food. Or anything that smells like it.

[TNhiker]

. The leg to which he had applied coconut scented sunscreen.

not sure where you got this info from but according to his blog--
https://peachpeak.wordpress.com/2016...omment-page-1/

the sunscreen was in his pack and not on his leg............

[Engine]

Do I need bear spray?

No...........

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Slow Trek]

I got that info from the bear Ranger who was there. Same Ranger that tranqualized the bear at our shelter.

[Bansko]

If I felt the need to, I'd have no qualms about carrying a firearm or bear spray on ANY section of the AT I felt the need to.

That said, in nearly 2200 miles, I never felt the need to.

[bamboo bob]

My grand daughter thinks bear spay is like bug spray. Some kind of Deet for bears is a good idea.

[rickb]

Running away from a bear is a very bad idea. First, bears can run at 35mph for a short time, they can easily catch you. Second, if you're running they may see you as prey.

Perhaps he was hiking with a slower friend.

[Cheyou]

I hiked with Stumbler in Pennsylvania. He carried bear spray . Never bothered me a bit.

Thom

[KDogg]

I never carried bear "piss them off so they will attack you" spray.

[Knee Jerk]

I carry bear spray on every hike but I've never needed it. (It's more for my wife's peace of mind than mine.)

I also carry one of those new "sound grenades" which cost only $10 and emit a high decibel sound.

However, I make so much noise in the woods I have never seen a bear or any wild animal for that matter. Even the squirrels and birds seem to disappear when I'm out there.

On the other hand, there was a hiker killed by a black bear in West Milford, N.J. - which is the next town over - about two years ago. But it was the first such fatality in N.J. in 17 years.