i will give them beer. i'm a trail devilOriginally Posted by rickb
Well, you started off by admitting that you were a grouchy old dude....
Your post is part of a growing trend against trail magic or helping thrus with their journey. I still fail to see how any of it affects you or anyone else.
It is as if, somehow, the AT with all it's campsites and shelters has become sacred ground and the "general public" is to be chastised for using it. And, the folks I see/hear most complaining about TM/feeds/gulps/trash-outs haven't thru'd or even done a complete Section. Yeah, I don't care for ANY camper/hiker who can't keep their noise to themselves. But, those are the exception really. Not the rule. And, it really doesn't have anything to do with TM. Highlife's dealio on Max was over by 10p and everyone was cowboy'd out enjoying the nightlight of a full moon in 45F and 40mph winds....even though there was...shudder...beer involved.
And, yeah, if there is a "message" along with the TM, I don't go for it and agree it shouldn't be alongside the TM...I got some TM that had a sticker on it with the Church's name and "message on it...almost too steep a price sticker for me...almost...lolol.....
Yeah, there are some folks that get addicted to the wide-eyed "thank you''s that you get for a simple Coke at a forlorn, mosquito-plagued gap with nothing but a trickle of sour water in a damp dank stream bed. No doubt. But, if they clean up after themselves....what is the dealio? Really. An "entitlement" attitude? The attitude of hiking towards free something? Sorry if it seemed like I was spewing vitriol at you. I was venting a bit on the topic in general.
Whatever TM we do is pretty much trash-outs and jug water for refills at gaps. If a hiker needs something, like a bandage, blister kit, electro tabs, shoelace, whatever....we are happy to provide it. Big deal. The shoelace is a custom job from a spool of paracord....lolol....
Honestly, the things that get the most response/appreciation are trash-outs, replacement ziploc baggies, Cokes and packs of tissue or wipes. We don't provide beer. Apples are a surprise huge hit as well....just sayin....
Just last weekend after only a couple of days we left with more than 20 pounds of extra garbage from mostly thru hikers, not including the freaking tire some jackwagon left in the middle of a USFS hell road....I mean I get that the damn road ripped it off, but take the freaking thing with you...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I also think that some people are just chapped by the fact that the AT crosses "roads" that the "general public" can access with their vehicles. Well...most of their vehicles...don't bring your Miata....but your minivan may actually work. I've seen two on that incredibly crappy "road" that is the North route from Max to Brown Spring Gap. Wowza...no wonder that tire was in the middle....minivans....
If it's after 10pm and noise is keeping me up, it's my fault. I didn't hike hard enough.
Trail runners are hikers too; we're just faster.
Almost all of the posts on this thread have pretty much ignored what the OP said/asked/deduced. Some of the younger hikers have an entitled attitude. If they don´t get trail magic at every crossing they bitch. Its almost as if they don´t pack their own food because they expect trail magic to feed them day after day. I´ve seen it, and I agree with the OP, don´t feed the ¨bears¨, it only encourages them. Trail magic is a sacred thing, meant to offer a treat at opportune moments. Its not there to feed you day after day.
I remember when I hiked the PCT. Just after Tahoe, I ran into a nice man who was out for 2 weeks giving some trail support to his daughter who had just gotten back on the trail after being off with an injury. For several days, I'd run into him at a road crossing and he'd give me and other hikers a soda or gatoraide. A few days later, I stopped seeing him as I was hiking faster than his daughter. However, for the next several weeks, whenever I'd come to a road, I would get a strong craving for a soda and would constantly be hoping for trail magic. I later likened it to becoming a "park" bear that got habituated to human food and no longer wanted his natural diet. So yes, unexpected trail magic is great, but it shouldn't be overdone or it raises further expectations of it.
Last edited by Miner; 05-02-2017 at 00:15.
I didn't address it from the entitled point of view, because i didn't see it personally. In 600 miles last year, I met exactly two hikers who seemed just a little bit overly excited about trail magic. About the only vaguely negative" impact was that they rushed off immediately ditching the group in mid conversation. Certainly nothing to take offense at, unless you're looking to be offended. A lot of hikers talked abut various trail magic/feeds they enjoyed or missed. It was just another topic of conversation, like chatting about gear, views, or elevation.
I met no one who didn't pack sufficient food, no one that relied on hiker feeds. I met rich people who stayed in fancy inns, and poor people who largely skipped the towns, and they got along well with each other on the trail. There were all sorts of odd people on the trail, who annoyed me in tiny ways. I can't pretend that I'm enough of a mind reader to determine if anyone felt entitled or not.
I'm not a fan of hiker feeds for other reasons, but some sort of "it allows unworthy people to hike" reasoning just seems bizarre to me.
I've never met a thru that has bitched if they don't get trail magic at every crossing. Never. Ever. How many have you REALLY met that have done this? How many thru's have you actually met? Me...hard to say....more than.....50 this year....probably more than 500 lifetime....I've shared camp with more than 30 so far this year. All but one has been awesome this year. There is always an outlier or two. This guy wasn't evil, just terminally clingy/annoying/yakking. None were looking for a handout or felt entitled.
I've never met a thru that didn't pack enough food because they were counting on TM. Never. Ever. How many have you REALLY met? I have met people who say they are thru's that did not arrive in GA with appropriate gear and have tried to mooch everything from food to tents. I don't think any of those misguided fools ever made it out of GA or were serious contenders for a thru, let alone making out of GA. BTW, I've taken food OFF of thru's who have admittedly packed too much! No thru has EVER asked for $$. Only a couple have tried to mooch a ride at a gap where there was a shuttle available by phone.
And, more to the fact, precisely WHERE have you encountered these thru's? Anywhere but the first 80 miles in GA?
And, finally(?), let's get back to my point. If a thru wants TM at every crossing, what is it to YOU? If a thru wants TM's to feed his thru, what is it to YOU? If a thru feels entitled to TM, what is it to you? Do you think those particular thrus will be any less of jerks without TM? Nope. They will probably be looking right at YOU for it!!!!! LMAO!!! Like an attitude will disappear if TM goes away...I could write a book about all the entitled stupidity I have heard on the AT by non-thrus...let's start with this entitlement. "What do you mean there isn't a bathroom except for the shelters?"
Haha, reminds me of two nobo hikers we met just after Grafton Notch State Park. One was complaining there was no soda in the trail magic bucket, only beer. I laughed at him.
I can remember when trail magic to me was walking into a town, between 1.5-2 miles, and having an elderly couple pull up and ask me if I was a thru hiker. I said "Yes Ma'am" and they told me to get in their car they would give me a ride. They were dress in their Sunday best returning from church services and while their car was not new it was very clean. While I was not caked in mud, I was dirty and worried about getting their car dirty. Both said not to worry. The next thing I know, I am their house having a hot shower, while the lady of the house was washing my clothes. She even washed them twice, as they weren't clean enough for her. They fed a wonderful meal and asked me to stay the night. I did decline, telling them I just needed to get some groceries and then head on down the trail. They took me to the store and took me back to the trail head and wished me luck. THAT IS TRAIL MAGIC!!!!
I have seen unprepared hikers all along trails. I don't think anyone wants to see some one not finish, so you gently offer advise, encouragement, and guidance. Some people try to walk a thru on a very, very tight budget. They don't plan for bad weather or other extenuating circumstances. I think it is great that they are trying, but you do need a reasonable budget to at least attempt to finish. Running out of cash is one of, if not the number one reason for having to quit the trail and go home, with injury a close second. Should it matter to me, should I care? To some people the answer is NO. But I do care. If I can help some one with an equipment repair, (Yes I do carry common repair gear), or hand some one an extra meal pouch that I know I won't use why shouldn't I? I always make sure to do so no one else sees it and causes embarrassment to them.
While I have seen a few people complain about TM not being available over four decades of hiking, these same people are the ones at hostels who clean out a hiker box of everything edible. Again, should I care? Yea I should, what about the next person who may need a helping hand, oh yea, screw them they should have prepared better. I have bought extra food to put in the hiker box, because it is the right thing to do. I have waited until the mooch leaves before putting it in the box, figuring they got their share already.
I was sectioning the AT one year and a female was in a shelter soaking wet as it had been raining hard. She seemed really timid and it appear as if she was shy about changing in front of the others. I walked over to her and pointed to my hammock and tarp setup and told her she could go there and change her clothes. She looked at me and I told not to worry I won't let anyone look. She smiled and returned and said thanks. Was it a big thing? Not to me, but to her it was. Was that trail magic? Maybe not to some but to her it was what she needed at the time.
So yes what others do and when they act like an entitled little brat that they are, I try ignoring them first. Then If they don't shut up yea I say something.
This post is not, in any way, directed at any previous post presented here. They are just my thoughts on the issue.
Blackheart
This thread reminds me why I avoid hiking the AT during peak season.
It's all good in the woods.
I at times live my bucket list by doing trail magic. I do remember about 3 years ago, I was giving RCs and Moonpies around Siler Bald. One man sat and talked with me for an hour. We had a great chat. I gave him my email asking him to keep me posted for his thru hike. Around Oct, I got an email from him telling me that my spirits and chat kept him motivated the entire hike. He said he was earlier thinking of stopping at Franklin and quiting, but I motivated him and he finished.
That is what I think is trail magic. Expecting it is not magic. Unexpected is what makes something magical.
When I hike next month as a section hiker, I do not feel obligated to partake but some feel that if it there take it regardless.
I think a lot of the issue is just is old farts remembering a time when TM was virtually always just random acts of kindness. Planned/ promoted hiker feeds are also much more a southern thing. You won't run into many on the northern half of the trail.
Trail magic is when the trail provides , out of the blue, what you really need, at the time you need it the most.
By very definition, a hiker MUST be in need.
It might be food, water, ride, money, lodging, moral support, etc .
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-02-2017 at 21:42.
This thread reminds me why I like backpack camping. Thank you BuckeyeBill, you´ve hit the nail on the head.
To me the true trail angels are the local folks who provide support like these folks did out of the goodness of their heart. How many times did a local provide a hitch that saved you from a long walk to town or worse? I saw people I hiked with gradually come to expect such things as the miles piled up and it bothered me that they seemed to take for granted the help locals provided as we moved northward. Hiker entitlement is not new, this was 9 years ago when a hiker feed was a Twinkle and Coke (rarely encountered). It is hard not to feel special when you have hiked a few hundred miles but when the locals get fed up with arrogant hikers, the AT will be in trouble and thru hiking will become a lot more difficult.
Last edited by TexasBob; 05-03-2017 at 19:19.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
People need to remember what another wise WB member said. When you are hiking the trail you are on vacation. Do you go on a standard style vacation and expect the locals to pay for everything for you? Buy your food and drinks, then if someone sets up a TM opportunity all the better. But realize you are on vacation.
Blackheart
97X Bam. That's it!
Trail magic should be unexpected for both the receiver and the giver.
Of course then there are 6000 trail volunteers who do trail magic all year long...
Cosmo
The graspy thing on my Frogg Togg zipper broke off many years ago. I did not abandon all hope though. The next camp area I simply looked around the fire pit until I found a bread bag twist-tie. Worked like a charm. Trail magic or litter?
Lonehiker (MRT '22)
Litter turned to TM
Blackheart
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