Trail Ethics: Please don't feed the ....

[Mr. Bumpy]

It comes up, but I am going to be a bitchy old man and bring it up again.

Yesterday I took a little trail run to Hogback Ridge shelter. There was a group, and there was the all too typical swagger. And then there was the question: "Is there any trail magic at Sam's Gap?"

I told them that there is a trashcan, a water source, and a warm apple in my car. They seemed disappointed.

Of course I am slightly jealous that I can't hack out a significant chunk out of my calendar to take a long hike until this fall. And I always enjoy coming across a beer in a spring or an unexpected snack and often partake. But something in the tone rubbed me the wrong way. Apparently someone was serving heavy fare at Max Patch a week or so ago and they were wishing that every crossing had that set-up.

It is like bears and hiker food. Don't feed the bears.

[Old Hiker]

Well, depends. I was ALWAYS surprised and deeply grateful to any Trail magic I came across, even if I chose to decline.

Had a great start to a bad morning at a road crossing one time. Up a hill to find cold drinks, watermelon and snacks.

Got to talk with some fellow hikers from 2012 who actually decided to finish the Trail instead of breaking their ankle at mile 500 or so.

Met some gentle, kind souls at my FIRST trail magic in GA on the Yellow Deli bus. Not my world view, but people like that help a lot.

Girl Scouts in NY (?) who left water and snacks at a park on a hot, nasty day.

I didn't look for nor expect it. It was marvelous when it happened.

[johnspenn]

The term "trail magic" has been mis/over-used to the point that it's meaningless.

If you have people asking if there is "trail magic" at the next road crossing, and disappointed because there isn't any, there's no longer anything "magical" about it.

The surprise cache of cold water for a hot and thirsty hiker on a hot day? Sure, trail magic. The unexpected lift into town and invite to stay in a stranger's home, eat a hot meal take a shower and do laundry? Trail magic.

Not really sure what you call the other stuff, really.

Technically I even have a problem with calling any of it "magic" but that's a discussion for another day.

[dervari]

Never expect it, and be grateful when you find it. The was a local church giving out cold water at Stone Mountain park on the Cherokee Trail one day and even though it wasn't true "trail magic" as per AT expectations these days, that cold water sure felt magical going down.

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[Rain Man]

A runner on a hiking trail complaining of someone supporting trail backpackers. The irony.

[MuddyWaters]

A runner on a hiking trail complaining of someone supporting trail backpackers. The irony.

I know of no place where the AT or any other national scenic trail is specified as a "hiking trail"

Because most walk, doesnt mean someone running is doing it wrong. Id wager day use outnumbers all else. Doesnt make it a day hiking trail.

[CalebJ]

How did trail running even become relevant to the discussion at hand? It's just a conversation about hiker feeds.

[scope]

Kinda takes the "magic" out of trail magic when someone is expecting it, huh?

[Mr. Bumpy]

A runner on a hiking trail complaining of someone supporting trail backpackers. The irony.

Hmm. I'm not sure what that comment is getting at? Are you really that strident or are you just trying to bait me for entertainment? It must really tear you up about the FKT types. I suppose you would probably might complain that I also sometimes take shears or bow saw on my day hike jogs too? Or of my custom of picking up and taking out trash bag out on my jogs too?

[gwschenk]

The magic is on the trail, not in some road crossing beer.

[scope]

The magic is on the trail, not in some road crossing beer.

Its like Reeces Peanut Butter Cups, both are great individually, but together they are magic! (trail+beer)

I think RainMan was making a reference to the flak Karl Meltzer and others sometimes get. Not being critical of the OP, just awareness of the irony.

[GoLight]

A runner on a hiking trail complaining of someone supporting trail backpackers. The irony.

In my opinion you mis-read the OP, he didn´t say that at all. He was commenting that some ¨trail backpackers¨ seem to feel entitled to a hiker feed at every crossing and its best not to encourage them.

[Storm]

I am always happy to find a small gesture of kindness on the trail. I really don't consider that trail magic. I have found the magic to be when the trail looks out for you. While hiking in Pa. on a hot July day I ran out of water for almost 4 hours. Low and behold ran into an old spring house with some of the coolest sweetest water I ever drank. At another time I was short of food and still a long way from a resupply. The trail provided an apple tree. That in my opinion is really trail magic.

[ScareBear]

It comes up, but I am going to be a bitchy old man and bring it up again.

Yesterday I took a little trail run to Hogback Ridge shelter. There was a group, and there was the all too typical swagger. And then there was the question: "Is there any trail magic at Sam's Gap?"

I told them that there is a trashcan, a water source, and a warm apple in my car. They seemed disappointed.

Of course I am slightly jealous that I can't hack out a significant chunk out of my calendar to take a long hike until this fall. And I always enjoy coming across a beer in a spring or an unexpected snack and often partake. But something in the tone rubbed me the wrong way. Apparently someone was serving heavy fare at Max Patch a week or so ago and they were wishing that every crossing had that set-up.

It is like bears and hiker food. Don't feed the bears.

I was at "a" feed at Max Patch a few weeks ago. Were the hikers "Red", "GumpCheese" or "LadyPants"? Great guys....

Highlife put on the feed to celebrate his return to the Patch. He thru'd two years ago and has done the CDT 2x, so it was just his way of paying forward and having an awesome thru party at the Patch. It's not uncommon....

Sorry you don't like those thru's "attitude". But, what is it to YOU if they feel entitled? They didn't mooch anything or try to Yogi you, did they?

And, what is it to YOU if Highlife or me or anybody throw's a feed or some gap gulps and trash relief???

Seriously folks, why in the world is anybody getting bent about what a stranger does for a stranger? What is it to YOU, exactly??????????

[hikernutcasey]

I think one of these days I'm going to make me a sign that says "Trail Magic Just Ahead" and put it just before some gap. Then I'm going to go down into the parking lot, dress up with a top hat and cape and proceed to do remedial magic tricks.

[Puddlefish]

I was at "a" feed at Max Patch a few weeks ago. Were the hikers "Red", "GumpCheese" or "LadyPants"? Great guys....

Highlife put on the feed to celebrate his return to the Patch. He thru'd two years ago and has done the CDT 2x, so it was just his way of paying forward and having an awesome thru party at the Patch. It's not uncommon....

Sorry you don't like those thru's "attitude". But, what is it to YOU if they feel entitled? They didn't mooch anything or try to Yogi you, did they?

And, what is it to YOU if Highlife or me or anybody throw's a feed or some gap gulps and trash relief???

Seriously folks, why in the world is anybody getting bent about what a stranger does for a stranger? What is it to YOU, exactly??????????

I had a few negative trail magic moments:

- I was looking for the water source at some gap and got preached at by some pushy evangelist handing out cookies for god.
- Walked past an umbrella and picnic table a few feet from the cars and motorcycles at a busy crossing, politely declined the offer of trail hospitality and kept walking. The woman screamed out after me... "and thank you for all that you've done for us!" She apparently was gravely insulted that I didn't thank her for nothing.
- At Beauty Spot, I was chatting with a young couple, when some yahoos in the parking lot spotted me as a potential thru hiker and started screaming across the field that they had "trail magic."
- On Max Patch, I described in my prior post above. I set up camp in a field a mile or so away, legally stealth camped and it sounded like I was attending a minor league ball game with all the noise.
- Some twit covered a sign with a bag full of Ramen, which made me miss my trail. This one worked out alright as the blue blaze I ended up on was lovely.
- Someone left a "trash bag" by one of the Balds, and didn't pick it up before nightfall. It was strewn over the trail by morning.
- Some brainless clown left a big green tent set up on a beautiful level spot a few hundred feet from a nice waterfall. I was complaining to my friend the next day how I had to set up in a borderline muddy spot a mile down the trail, because the green tent guy beat me to the nice spot. My friend told me that he set up in an unlevel rocky spot near that tent. Eventually he noticed that no one was home. Turns out there was a note inside the tent, welcoming people to use the tent and sleeping bags for the night. I was tempted to walk back a mile and pack out that tent to the nearest dumpster.
- Numerous occasions of fruit being left at a trail head unattended. Which results in bears and other animals turning into nuisances and being put down.
- Several nights, beer got packed into tent sites and people partied until midnight.
- Some guy in a yellow pickup with a custom Trail Angel paint job, yelled halfway across a mountain asking if I had water. Waking up the poor people I was hiking past.

I get it, people want to be the trail hero, to be thought of as generous, and be loved, to feel like they're still part of the trail community. I understand the reasoning, but some of these people are causing far more harm than good.

[Mr. Bumpy]

I was at "a" feed at Max Patch a few weeks ago. Were the hikers "Red", "GumpCheese" or "LadyPants"? Great guys....

Highlife put on the feed to celebrate his return to the Patch. He thru'd two years ago and has done the CDT 2x, so it was just his way of paying forward and having an awesome thru party at the Patch. It's not uncommon....

Sorry you don't like those thru's "attitude". But, what is it to YOU if they feel entitled? They didn't mooch anything or try to Yogi you, did they?

And, what is it to YOU if Highlife or me or anybody throw's a feed or some gap gulps and trash relief???

Seriously folks, why in the world is anybody getting bent about what a stranger does for a stranger? What is it to YOU, exactly??????????

I'm not getting bent over the issue any more than it seems like you are getting bent at my post. To be fair, I probably should have posited a question in my OP instead of a statement - I wish I would have done that. I am very much a live and let live person - I like car racing, heavy metal, Gordon Lightfoot, and dislike cigarettes - these are just preferences - each to his own and feel free to disagree.

But yeah, it does diminish my experience and my confidence and trust in others when after arriving with a friendly, "Hello," to be ignored, not greeted likewise, and then hear how everyone was doing 19 mile days and so and so couldn't keep up. I'm pretty positive that that chatter was for my ears as there was only silence as I was walking up on the shelter. Then only after being there for five minutes and picking up a couple handfuls of trash their only greeting went pretty much like, "Which direction were you coming from? Is there any trail magic at the gap." To me, that IS just rude and crass, and if it were my child making that comment he would get a talkin'.

Ultimately, ScareBear, your implication is right, it is exactly NOTHING to ME, except for a rub. And I don't think you need to be cheesed up me for it - personal choice and all that.

I made my original post and that is why I hope many people post here, to try to get answers to questions that they have.

I like parties and all that, but I don't think Hell Hole Holler is the place for them any more than someone would be bothered if I set up a laser projector and showed a movie at a shelter. I have never really bitched on this forum about entitled attitudes - each to his own - but I have been hiking around here for 20 years, and attitudes like I describe here I judge as negative, the ARE increasing and I think can be directly fueled by what are well meaning intentions.

[RockDoc]

It's a sign of overpopulation when hikers start arguing amongst themselves like little children, as in this thread.
The more people, the more negative trail moments.
Regrettably, it will get worse.

[Lone Wolf]

It comes up, but I am going to be a bitchy old man and bring it up again.

Yesterday I took a little trail run to Hogback Ridge shelter. There was a group, and there was the all too typical swagger. And then there was the question: "Is there any trail magic at Sam's Gap?"

I told them that there is a trashcan, a water source, and a warm apple in my car. They seemed disappointed.

Of course I am slightly jealous that I can't hack out a significant chunk out of my calendar to take a long hike until this fall. And I always enjoy coming across a beer in a spring or an unexpected snack and often partake. But something in the tone rubbed me the wrong way. Apparently someone was serving heavy fare at Max Patch a week or so ago and they were wishing that every crossing had that set-up.

It is like bears and hiker food. Don't feed the bears.

i feed the the truly hungry and needy. AT walkers are neither.

[rickb]

i feed the the truly hungry and needy. AT walkers are neither.

What about beer?