LeConte Shelter already closed for the year

[scope]

Mostly just being funny. I think we all know why the lodge is still open, but that's also partially because its enclosed accommodations, too. Not that getting to and from isn't an issue if there's a spike in activity, just not as likely as folks sitting around at the shelter.

[madgoat]

Sorry to hear your trip got sidetracked HooKooDooKoo. Hopefully as the mast crop fills in, the bears will go back to their normal food sources so the shelter can reopen.

The day is coming when we will all be required to carry some sort of bear container. We are our own worst enemies. Whether on the AT in the GSMNP or outside of it, I always see trash, leftover food, and other smellables scattered around campsites and shelters. "We", in the collective sense, are the problem. Yes, frontcountry users help get bears habituated to human food. But backcountry users are the ones who make the shelters and campsites unsafe. Would the canisters help? Maybe, but even in the smokies where the cables make it super easy to protect your food, you still see campsites and shelters littered with trash.

[TNhiker]

you still see campsites and shelters littered with trash.

yup.....

some are worse than others.....

pretty much the only campsites that i have not seen trash were some of the (at the time) brand new ones----like new CS 88.......

But backcountry users are the ones who make the shelters and campsites unsafe.

and its not just the "novice" backpackers that are practicing bad food storage------i have seen so called "vets" have bad food habits as well......

[madgoat]

The "novice backpackers" have their moments too TNhiker. Between abandoning whole campsites filled with all their gear, leaving garbage bags full of trash hanging on the bear lines, full packs abandoned on the bear lines at trailhead accessible campsite, full on 1950's Boy Scout pioneering projects in camp, bushcrafter wannabees bailing when they realize their tv survival skillz aren't really all that useful, etc. Yeah, the novice backcountry users leave a mess that we all have to pitch in and clean up.

But I agree with you. The novice backpacker is not always the culprit. More often its the lazy seasoned backpacker.

[TNhiker]

But I agree with you. The novice backpacker is not always the culprit. More often its the lazy seasoned backpacker.

my point is that everyone will be quick to point their fingers at novice backpackers and place the blame on them.......

but ive seen enough people who call themselves "true backpackers" that have left a mess behind.........

[Rex Clifton]

I have a good solution, call Smith & Wesson! Seriously, I hike in areas of high bear concentrations and, I would bet, there are just as many careless hikers as in the Smokies. The difference is that hunting is allowed in areas that I hike, so the bears have a healthy fear of humans.


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[scope]

I have a good solution, call Smith & Wesson! Seriously, I hike in areas of high bear concentrations and, I would bet, there are just as many careless hikers as in the Smokies. The difference is that hunting is allowed in areas that I hike, so the bears have a healthy fear of humans.


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I believe this to be true in our area as well. I'm not a gun guy and I don't hunt, but I reap the benefits of being able to enjoy the domain of the bear and maintain my alpha status as a result of those who do. I'll gladly wear an orange beanie instead of bear spray.

[scope]

http://www.visitmysmokies.com/blog/s...national-park/

Still awesome this far past 4/1!! The "c'mon man!" vibe was there from the title, but as I read I started asking myself, "can't be true, right?", until I got to this...

Anyone fishing in the national park must first check the stream in question to make sure a polar bear is not lurking under the water. The official procedure for checking a stream is as follows: throw a polar bear treat (available for purchase at national park visitor centers) into the water, hide behind a bush or a tree, and wait for thirty to forty minutes. If a bear does not surface to eat the treat, it is safe to fish.

Good stuff!

[TNhiker]

The difference is that hunting is allowed in areas that I hike, so the bears have a healthy fear of humans.

and some would say that hunting keeps the population in check.........

[Dogwood]

I have a good solution, call Smith & Wesson! Seriously, I hike in areas of high bear concentrations and, I would bet, there are just as many careless hikers as in the Smokies. The difference is that hunting is allowed in areas that I hike, so the bears have a healthy fear of humans.


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You obviously don't hike in NP's or specifically the most visited NP in the country or understand NP mandates. "Hunting inside the parks runs counter to the National Park Service’s Organic Act, which says the parks were created to “conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wildlife therein.” In simple terms, the national parks were created to protect the lands, and everything on them, including the animals."


How do you suppose a bear hunt be facilitated in GSMNP? Do we close GSMNP to everyone else during bear hunting activity in such a highly visited NP even if it's a controlled hunt?...using what weapons? Who do you suggest does the hunting? Public hunters...while the NP is open to equestrians, campers, sightseers, fisherman, and hikers? Have you considered perhaps a trapping and relocation could be part of a solution rather than just a hunting, gun, and killing solution...or perhaps that a facet of a comprehensive solution could be requiring so called alpha animal HUMANS to alter their behavior to an increased extent in line with NP mandates or in greater cooperation with Nature?

[TNhiker]

Who do you suggest does the hunting?

just to throw it out there----

the Park does do some hunting and killing of animals in the Park....

some rangers along with some that they hire go out and kill feral hogs....

i have seen rangers with guns a few times (it was ironic that at the time eric robert rudolph was on the run) and pig hunting is what they stated after i asked...

and somewhere in the "back of beyond"----there is a camp where the contract hunters stay at for weeks on time and they go out hunting for pigs...

granted---pigs are an invasive species and thats what they are trying to control.........

[Hosh]

RMNP has had a limited elk hunt to cull the herd sizes. They hired "government sharp shooters" rather than open to the normal permit lottery. They did it during the winter so as to not freak out the tourist by gutting an elk in the parking lot. I am sure it cost as much as an F-18, but satisfied the powerful within the NPS. In spite of 3 separate attempts, the herd is still way too large.

It is curious that the NPS Organic Act was done to "....conserve the scenery...." The upper Big Thompson and Fall Rivers are corralled with wire fencing designed to keep the over-populated elk out, so the native willows can flourish. Makes fly fishing a major pain. Really screws up the view, kinda like wind turbines in the Hamptons. On the Fall River entrance side, there's a huge boulder surrounded by fencing. Every chance I get, I tell the Rangers the boulder has escaped and they should mount a search party.

Colorado has tightened hunting laws for bears, mountain lions and coyotes. Communities on the Front Range are decimated with bears breaking into houses, missing cats, and Chihuahuas. Coyotes stalk young children in the open spaces, mountain lions snarf down Siberian Huskies.

Too many people, I guess. If only the Texans and Californicators would stay home.

[duckypaddler]

From what I understand, the fences were taken down in part because people used them improperly, such as staying safely behind the fence while they either fed or taunted bears.

I had the pleasure of taking my 8 year old son Thomas on his first hike to Russell Field a couple Sundays ago. When we finally made it to the shelter, my memory of my first visit here came rushing back. My buddy and I were spending the night at the shelter. We had just unpacked out stuff when 2 locals (or had that "local" look) came up to join us for the night. They came prepared with fresh steaks. Just when I was wondering how they were going to cook them, they threw them outside the chain link fence and sealed the door. Now the others guys comment a few minutes earlier about if you are going to pee, go do it now was making more sense. Sure enough within 10 minutes we had a bear outside. I was terrified! Not sure if the bears or our shelter mates were more scary. The scene lasted a few minutes and bear went away but you could hear him pacing throughout the night.
Fast forward several more years and they started removing the chainlink, I was initially horrified. Well 10+ years later it seems to be the right decision. If you look at most of the "Bear" problems in the park they are really "People" problems. Those Good ole boys had been doing the meat thing before, probably a tradition from when these sorts of things were encouraged. If we could only train the tourons.