unwanted companions

[MtDoraDave]

As someone pointed out, the dog's owner never called the OP back, so how many days should he have sat at that gap waiting for the dogs' owner to come along or return his call? I think did nothing wrong... except perhaps to allow the dogs to follow him. As someone else said, 3 beagles in the woods are probably hunting dogs and should be left alone or discouraged from following you.

I saw a thread on FB recently, where someone "saved" a dog that was loose, and moved out of state before realizing they couldn't keep it (I forget why, but it doesn't matter in this case), THEN they tried to find the original owners...

I'm not saying there aren't any cases where a dog found by a road somewhere doesn't need saving. My dog of 14 years was one of such. But that goes beyond this thread/ forum's scope. If a dog of a hunting breed tries to follow me on the trail when I'm out of state hiking, I'll discourage it from following me rather than adopt it as my new friend or taking responsibility for it. If I come across a dog on the trail that doesn't appear to be a hunting breed, but possibly a local's dog that got out or a hiker's pet that wandered off - and has no collar to identify the owner - I still believe the dog has a better chance of getting back to the owner with its nose rather than with mine.

[garlic08]

What someone said about the dogs mooching food from hikers was probably right. They're smart that way. I bet they knew exactly where they were and what they were doing.

On my CDT hike a three-legged dog latched onto me in W. Glacier and followed me into the Park, despite pebbles thrown and scolding. It stayed just out of throwing range for a dozen miles to a ranger station where I found a LEO to take it back to town. She knew that dog.

[BuckeyeBill]

I have mentioned in another thread about owners training their dogs. I do know that hunting dogs are a "different breed" and are very expensive and specially trained. However they should not be permitted to run wild in the woods unless their owner is within a reasonable proximity to the dogs. I do believe that under the correct circumstances (owners in the immediate area) hunting dogs should have special protections in place. However, irresponsible ownership should come into play as well. If you see a locator collar on the dog, you should do what you can to discourage the dog(s) from following you. Do not beat them with a stick, I won't throw rocks or sticks at them. Totally ignoring them is the best approach. As with all animals that you don't own, don't feed them or you will have more problems with them than you want. I only will get involved with another persons dog if it is injured and then only if I am sure I won't get bitten in the process.

All dogs can tell when they are around "dog people" and act accordingly. You should always let a dog approach you. Only show the back of your hand towards them, as this show a non-aggressive posture. When they are close enough to your hand, let them smell it first, then come up under their chin to pet them. Never come down from the top as this may be interpreted as a act of aggression. Once they can tell you mean them no harm, you can pet the top of their head, but I suggest that you use both hands, one on top and one from underneath. Also remember, NO MATTER WHAT THE OWNER SAYS, ALL DOGS CAN BITE.

[tagg]

My point is the guy tried so give him a break. You are making an assumption that it would not have taken long to reach the owner. You don't know when the owner would have called back. It could have been hours or never (which apparently was the case because the OP doesn't mention ever getting a call back).

I'm the OP...sorry, I should have mentioned...Buckshot did call back that night while we were sleeping, left a message on my cell saying thanks and that he got his dogs. He said they had been gone for a few days. So all ended well, but truthfully, even if he never called back I still wouldn't think I did anything wrong. I was just curious as to how others would handle it after I got some push back from another hiker.

[Alligator]

You posted this knowing he called you back...so you already knew you had a positive outcome?

My key point was this. You unwillingly led the dogs out of the woods to a road crossing. Would you leave a three year old human in a similar place? No, because the child does not understand the risk of walking into the road. OOoo buttafly....Same thing for a dog. OOOooo deer....chase deer....Especially a scent hound, as they are singleminded when pursuing game. It's not a good idea to leave dogs near the side of a road even tbough it ended well this time. Most people become indifferent to the road kill they pass everyday but animals get hit by cars on a regular basis, whether they are strays, lost, or in their own neighborhood.

Thank you for making the call, it was more than many others would have done at all.

[earlyriser26]

Had a similar thing happen to me in Virginia. Me and a friend were hiking and a Jack Russel terrier started following us. He had no collar and followed us for 10 miles. It was cold and raining. We were picked up by a shuttle in the middle of no where. We left the dog with the woman that gave us the ride and she said she would attempt to find its owner. If she was unwilling to take the dog, we would have had to leave it.

[Francis Sawyer]

A shot across the bow with some pepper spray is usually enough to cause a stray dog to lose interest. It doesn't hurt them.

[TexasBob]

I'm the OP...sorry, I should have mentioned...Buckshot did call back that night while we were sleeping, left a message on my cell saying thanks and that he got his dogs. He said they had been gone for a few days. So all ended well, but truthfully, even if he never called back I still wouldn't think I did anything wrong. I was just curious as to how others would handle it after I got some push back from another hiker.

It was nice of "Buckshot" to call and let you know he appreciated your help and the dogs got back home safe and sound. I am glad everything turned out OK.

[Traveler]

You posted this knowing he called you back...so you already knew you had a positive outcome?

My key point was this. You unwillingly led the dogs out of the woods to a road crossing. Would you leave a three year old human in a similar place? No, because the child does not understand the risk of walking into the road. OOoo buttafly....Same thing for a dog. OOOooo deer....chase deer....Especially a scent hound, as they are singleminded when pursuing game. It's not a good idea to leave dogs near the side of a road even tbough it ended well this time. Most people become indifferent to the road kill they pass everyday but animals get hit by cars on a regular basis, whether they are strays, lost, or in their own neighborhood.

Thank you for making the call, it was more than many others would have done at all.

Outcomes aside, the key word in the admonition is "unwillingly". The OP had dogs follow him unwillingly, something a lot of us experience over the years. The only real recourse when this happens is try and shoo the pests away and keep walking. In this instance it failed to dissuade the dogs and the OP continued to walk as this was the only logical option.

Crossing a road on the AT is inevitable at some point. However dogs are not 3-year old human beings so the level of assumed responsibility scales accordingly. If the dogs were prone to chase deer, they would have likely done so regardless of a road crossing nearby and probably had many times before. While I understand the admonition about not leaving a hunting dog by the side of the road because they are "single minded" when hunting (apparently hunting hikers that day), there were few options outside of trying to reach the owner. Setting up camp at the roadside to ensure the dogs wouldn't wander into traffic, wait for an owner who may never show up, or waiting for the dogs to leave on their own aren't viable options, especially if there is a schedule that has to be met.

I agree the OP did more than a lot of people would have in calling the owner, however responsibility for the animals rests with the owner, not the unwilling participant the animals happened upon during their outing.

[Tipi Walter]

If you see a locator collar on the dog, you should do what you can to discourage the dog(s) from following you. Do not beat them with a stick, I won't throw rocks or sticks at them. Totally ignoring them is the best approach.
ALL DOGS CAN BITE.

So, what do you recommend to keep a hunting dog from following me or staying in my camp? Here's some recent dog pics encountered on my backpacking trips---

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This guy followed me for several days.

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These guys hung out with me and would not leave.

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An emaciated dog out for at least a week and found on Slickrock Creek in NC.

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This guy wouldn't leave camp and spent the night on the Rocky Flats trail in Citico wilderness. Protect your food, boys.

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Another pest surveying my camp on Four Mile Ridge.

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This idiot takes the cake---on a recent trip---he hung out at a reststop and lifted his leg and peed on my beloved pack. Cur!!!

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And this hiking dog actually bit me and drew blood. (Hangover Mt, NC, 2005).

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Finally, this pic must be included and shows the all-important Circle of Anuses so popular with hiking dogs. Randy is lucky and is part of this special Circle.

[BuckeyeBill]

Tipi,
About hunting dogs:
I guess I should have said don't feed them, don't encourage them in any manner, if you're ready to break camp and move on; do it. My experience shows that several "Get out of here", "Go home" and/or just a loud "GO" usually works especially around other people, because they get upset with you for yelling at the "poor thing". Tell them they can take care of it then. Don't get me wrong I love dogs, I just don't like irresponsible owners. They should have been close enough by them to get them under control.

I have a couple of rescue dogs now, but I took the time to train them properly. They do listen to me, they don't jump on people or sniff human butts or crotches and they don't bark when someone rings the door bell. Even as well as they are trained, I would never take them on a hike with me. I am sure they would enjoy it, but they really enjoy laying around the house much better.

The owner of the dog that bit you, should be drawn and quartered for failing to control their dog.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi,

The owner of the dog that bit you, should be drawn and quartered for failing to control their dog.

As you say, any dog can bite and I wasn't about to alter or curtail (no pun here) my trip just because the thing snapped. The owner was apologetic and I'm not the type to give a crap (short of being dead in two weeks from rabies)---and I certainly would never snitch out anyone to the guvmint.

[BuckeyeBill]

As you say, any dog can bite and I wasn't about to alter or curtail (no pun here) my trip just because the thing snapped. The owner was apologetic and I'm not the type to give a crap (short of being dead in two weeks from rabies)---and I certainly would never snitch out anyone to the guvmint.

OK, but a few hours on the rack might straighten him out. Pun intended.

[Alligator]

Outcomes aside, the key word in the admonition is "unwillingly". The OP had dogs follow him unwillingly, something a lot of us experience over the years. The only real recourse when this happens is try and shoo the pests away and keep walking. In this instance it failed to dissuade the dogs and the OP continued to walk as this was the only logical option.

Crossing a road on the AT is inevitable at some point. However dogs are not 3-year old human beings so the level of assumed responsibility scales accordingly. If the dogs were prone to chase deer, they would have likely done so regardless of a road crossing nearby and probably had many times before. While I understand the admonition about not leaving a hunting dog by the side of the road because they are "single minded" when hunting (apparently hunting hikers that day), there were few options outside of trying to reach the owner. Setting up camp at the roadside to ensure the dogs wouldn't wander into traffic, wait for an owner who may never show up, or waiting for the dogs to leave on their own aren't viable options, especially if there is a schedule that has to be met.

I agree the OP did more than a lot of people would have in calling the owner, however responsibility for the animals rests with the owner, not the unwilling participant the animals happened upon during their outing.

No he never said he tried to shoo the dogs away. He said he just kept walking and ignoring them "for a couple of miles".

Chasing deer deep in the woods isn't a real problem, the risk "scales up" next to the road. Which is where he left them.
Other options:
1. Shoo the dogs away if you don't want them following. Tell 'em to git. NO. NOW GIT!
2. Splash them with water, send a rock crashing. Appear menacing. The farther away when you do this, the more space they have to leave. Dogs are smart they understand an angry human. They won't want to stay. I'm not saying provoke the dog. A little foot stomping, maybe a short chase they run off. Much better for them than letting them follow you four miles.
3. Not wanting to wait at the roadside? Make the call to the owner and tie the dogs up in a safe spot. Call the local police, ranger, animal control. Let them know the dogs are there and that the owner's number is XXX-XXX-XXXX, it's on the collar. There ought to be some rope or cord between two hikers.

He's on vacation. If people can't be bothered to do the right thing when the situation warrants it when they are on their free time, when's it ever going to happen? Going to the store? Running errands? On the way to work?

We talk about the magic of the trail. Be the magician when it's your opportunity.

[MtDoraDave]

Tie up someone else's dog? No.

I get what you are trying to do, and I certainly don't want to pick a fight with a moderator of a forum I enjoy, but there are several ways that can end badly for the dog.

[Traveler]

No he never said he tried to shoo the dogs away. He said he just kept walking and ignoring them "for a couple of miles".

Chasing deer deep in the woods isn't a real problem, the risk "scales up" next to the road. Which is where he left them.
Other options:
1. Shoo the dogs away if you don't want them following. Tell 'em to git. NO. NOW GIT!
2. Splash them with water, send a rock crashing. Appear menacing. The farther away when you do this, the more space they have to leave. Dogs are smart they understand an angry human. They won't want to stay. I'm not saying provoke the dog. A little foot stomping, maybe a short chase they run off. Much better for them than letting them follow you four miles.
3. Not wanting to wait at the roadside? Make the call to the owner and tie the dogs up in a safe spot. Call the local police, ranger, animal control. Let them know the dogs are there and that the owner's number is XXX-XXX-XXXX, it's on the collar. There ought to be some rope or cord between two hikers.

He's on vacation. If people can't be bothered to do the right thing when the situation warrants it when they are on their free time, when's it ever going to happen? Going to the store? Running errands? On the way to work?

We talk about the magic of the trail. Be the magician when it's your opportunity.

Given these were described as hunting dogs, which are protected by laws forbidding interfering with them, the trail magic accompanying them may be a signifiant fine if not some guys with attitude in a pick up truck who own them. I take no responsibility towards these animals and am indifferent to their business whenever they show up. Stray dogs on the other hand are a different and I will and have taken some responsible measures to help much as you suggest.

[English Stu]

I was followed by a bear hound complete with radio collar, it followed me for hours. I did try and shoo it away. I was pleased when it followed a hiker going the other way.

[tagg]

You posted this knowing he called you back...so you already knew you had a positive outcome?

My key point was this. You unwillingly led the dogs out of the woods to a road crossing. Would you leave a three year old human in a similar place? No, because the child does not understand the risk of walking into the road. OOoo buttafly....Same thing for a dog. OOOooo deer....chase deer....Especially a scent hound, as they are singleminded when pursuing game. It's not a good idea to leave dogs near the side of a road even tbough it ended well this time. Most people become indifferent to the road kill they pass everyday but animals get hit by cars on a regular basis, whether they are strays, lost, or in their own neighborhood.

Thank you for making the call, it was more than many others would have done at all.

I posted despite the fact that it was a positive outcome because I was curious what others would have done in the moment without benefit of knowing it was going to work out well.

I see your point about not leaving them by a road, perhaps it would be better to try to leave them farther up trail and then make the call telling him where I saw them last. My thinking in this case was that the dogs were heading south when they latched onto me heading north, so we were walking back towards where they came from. I don't think I'll ever consider setting up camp and waiting to hear from an owner of a dog that might not even need saving, but I'm not completely heartless and certainly don't want to put them in danger. I just don't think I have a moral obligation to see it through to the end, and was curious what other people think. Just like everything else, I suppose it's no surprise that there are passionate people on both ends of the spectrum, which is probably a good thing.

[Berserker]

I'm a dog lover (have one myself), and I wouldn't have done anything more than the OP. Usually if I see dogs that appear to be hunting dogs when I'm hiking I just leave 'em be. Glad to see that the OP followed up in the thread here, and let us all know that that the dude got his dogs back.

[mankind117]

I was camping on Bob Bald in the Nantahela national forest about 6 years ago with relatives. In the middle of the night a lost hunting dog wandered into my cousin's vestibule. It just followed us the next morning as we walked out. Luckily we came across a hunter who claimed he knew the owner when he saw the tag and we left him with the hunter. Not sure what we would have done if we had not found the hunter.