Hiked the Smokies

[tdoczi]

This horse (no pun intended) has been beaten to death many times before. The permit and registration system in the GSMNP has been in effect I believe since 2012. It came about because of the overcrowding at shelters and numerous people stealth camping inside the park. Even now the ATC is asking, not requiring, people to schedule their departure date on their website, in order to avoid overcrowding along the whole trail. Baxter State Park has instituted a permit system to go on the trail up to Mt. Katahdin. All three examples are caused by overcrowding. Some people, myself included, put a lot of the blame on a movie about two friends hiking the AT. It is felt that this brought about a huge amount of attention to the trail that resulted in certain people with no previous hiking experience and that don't have a clue how difficult a thru hike is to complete. They go out and buy equipment without researching it and usually end up bringing way too much stuff and or the wrong type of gear. You will find it on the stairs on the approach trail and along the trail north of Springer Mountain just lying on the ground. They have no concept of LNT principles.

Now getting back to the Smokies, I will tell you up front that I personally detest shelters. Between the mouse poop, food stains, stains left by people who got sick (read puked) and the stinking, dirty, farting, belching, snoring hikers (nothing personal), just let me camp away from the shelter. I also don't want mice running back and forth over me all night or bugs that can give me certain diseases. I am the one that will setup in a shelter, but will gladly give up my spot to a late arriving hiker.

Some have mention the damage to the trees and and the ground that hammock hangers cause. A veteran hanger carefully chooses their spot. Live trees, no dead ones, that are the correct diameter (12 inch minimum for me) as well as the correct distance apart (15 feet minimum though I prefer 18 feet when I can find it.). Are there any widow makers overhead (dead branches that can fall on me). The correct distance from water sources (200 feet recommended). Ground underneath, is it the point of not being able to be reclaimed? If it is use it, but if there a tent camper there and it is a level area, leave it for the them, as a hammock can hang over slanted ground. If the area is capable of being reclaimed, leave it alone and find somewhere to hang. As a last resort we use virgin areas. After such use, we will do our best to restore it to it previous condition. Chances are low that another hiker will use that exact same spot.

The physics of hammock hanging is complex and should be left to the Sheldon Coopers of the world. Derek Hansen has a neat calculator on his website that shows you how changes in one aspect of the hang can effect to rest of the dynamics. It also shows the shear force applied to the tree at the strap height.

or for pete's NO ONE SAW THAT MOVIE.

it was huge flop. massive. the 8 people who did see it were elderly women and i think most of them have no interest in thru hiking.

[BuckeyeBill]

Which movie, I didn't say the name.

[tdoczi]

Which movie, I didn't say the name.

the only one about 2 friends hiking the AT thats been out into wide release and that some people like to scapegoat for the trails overcrowding issues.

[Time Zone]

Worst case, flat pitch and fooling around results in needing a very stout pole to be idiot proof and last. 3000 lb force , maybe 2000 horizontal ( not gonna do math), is abot 12000 ft lbs of torque on pole.

worst case = tree tents. I'll agree with you there, flat pitch is not good for trees.

But hammocks are not supposed to be hung at 0 degree angle - and from what I've seen, most hammock campers know this. Backyard hammock stands basically wouldn't exist (for long) if hammockers tried to hang at a flat pitch. At the recommended 30 degree angle, hammocks won't harm most trees/bark, and will only have cord tension equal to the weight of the hanger. Shear force even less, according to Derek Hansen's Hammock Hang Calculator:

https://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

Many hammockers also know that positioning one's body on a 20 degree diagonal to the centerline can simulate a flat pitch lay without forgoing the suspension hang angle needed to protect the trees.

[Time Zone]

or for pete's NO ONE SAW THAT MOVIE.

it was huge flop. massive. the 8 people who did see it were elderly women and i think most of them have no interest in thru hiking.

Per IMDB:
Budget $8M, Gross $29.5M (domestic only - many movies make the bulk of their money overseas)

The book was better, but the movie was OK. And I'm not an old woman.

I'd be glad to be part of any massive flop in the future that will earn 3-4x my money in 18 months. Sign me up!

[BuckeyeBill]

the only one about 2 friends hiking the AT thats been out into wide release and that some people like to scapegoat for the trails overcrowding issues.

Straight from the ATC website:

With the release of two thru-hike related major motion pictures in 2015 ("Wild" and "A Walk in the Woods"), the number of new hikers is projected to increase dramatically.

Oh and your eight elderly ladies that saw the movie must be rich since the tickets cost them $4,500,000 each.

[Venchka]

Straight from the ATC website:

With the release of two thru-hike related major motion pictures in 2015 ("Wild" and "A Walk in the Woods"), the number of new hikers is projected to increase dramatically.

Oh and your eight elderly ladies that saw the movie must be rich since the tickets cost them $4,500,000 each.

Thanks for the chuckle Y'all.
Two Old Couples.
The movie was ludicrous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

Straight from the ATC website:

With the release of two thru-hike related major motion pictures in 2015 ("Wild" and "A Walk in the Woods"), the number of new hikers is projected to increase dramatically.

Oh and your eight elderly ladies that saw the movie must be rich since the tickets cost them $4,500,000 each.

projected. a projection that never came to pass, for better or worse.

4.5 million times 8 is 36 million dollars. that my dear friend, is a gigantic box office flop. no two ways about it.

i daresay there are more people, even after all of these years, who are hiking the trail because they read the book than because they saw the movie.

and beyond that, you say yourself, the GSMNP regs were implemented in 2012.... what, they were getting ready for the post movie influx?? lol the entertainment value of this board can be ever so very high sometimes.

[tdoczi]

Per IMDB:
Budget $8M, Gross $29.5M (domestic only - many movies make the bulk of their money overseas)

The book was better, but the movie was OK. And I'm not an old woman.

I'd be glad to be part of any massive flop in the future that will earn 3-4x my money in 18 months. Sign me up!

29.5 million places it where exactly on the domestic box office gross chart for the year of it's release?

if you take the number of hikers the year after the movie, subtract the number of hikers from the year before the movie, whatever number that is i can guarantee you you will not find that nuber of thru hikers who will say "oh yeah, i wasnt going to hike but then that movie came out..."

some of you like to act like this movie was some massive cultural phenomena that sent droves of new hikers into the woods. it wasnt remotely.

[Starchild]

...
some of you like to act like this movie was some massive cultural phenomena that sent droves of new hikers into the woods. it wasnt remotely.

There is a massive cultural phenomenon that is going on that is sending drives of new hikers into the woods, the movie was just a subset of that. Social media and around here (NY) Meetup.com has introduced many and the numbers of hikers have increased to the point that parking areas that were usually empty except for hiking club outings are becoming regularly overflowing. The AT, which has historically remained quite, as hikers flocked to the Catskills and other trails in the Hudson Highlands is now firmly on their radar and meeting thru hikers part of the highlight of the trip, along with trail magic opportunities.

The larger concern some have is will hiking hit 'critical mass', when it's awareness and popularity starts attracting exponentially more hikers thus increasing awareness and popularity even more and so on the trend continues. Some feared it was not the movie in itself, but the increased popularity and awareness of the trail would the scales to this ever growing trend. It is still too early to tell if the increase in number of hikers will level off or continue to grow, and if there is a way to have the trails sustain this growth.

And we have spillovers into different aspects of life where the AT is now relevant. I've already seen a fairly new use of the AT journey, school and college credit. While an educational journey was always part of the thru hiking experience - it was personal and not many took this path, few even knew about it, but I've met more people who are actually getting college credit for a long distance hike on the AT.

I do like to look towards El Camino to see where the AT may be heading, and it's not that far away in some terms. Services for slackpacking aboud on the AT and are growing, (El Camino can be slacked the entire length, 5 Euro's per pack per bounce). More options for overnight and shuttles are on the AT, though still far away from the Camino, but it is common to get questions for sections of the AT where people can hike hostel to hostel. It does appear to me that ATC took 2 pages from El Camino directly, the AT passport (Pilgrim's passport) and the AT yellow tag (scalloped shell) many hikers display. This serves to bond the hiking community but also advertize it. El Camino also has a aspect that many school children use the journey as summer camp and there is a term for them as they are so numerous, will that come to the AT? And if so can the AT handle that? - Perhaps so. The camino shows that hikers are willing to travel in vast numbers, far outstripping the numbers on the AT at present, and the hiking trail footbed (not including the numerous road walks) does not appear worse off then many sections of the heavily used AT, except in a very few sections when one travels in a trench due to centuries of use of a poorly designed trail which allows water to erode it - but these are small sections and a bit fascinating given how many have traveled this.

[tdoczi]

There is a massive cultural phenomenon that is going on that is sending drives of new hikers into the woods, the movie was just a subset of that.

everything you say is accurate except thinking the movie was any part of it at all. if the movie was never made maybe, MAYBE thered be 2 less people thru hiking this year.

MAYBE.

its not the movie's fault.

[Starchild]

everything you say is accurate except thinking the movie was any part of it at all. if the movie was never made maybe, MAYBE thered be 2 less people thru hiking this year.

MAYBE.

its not the movie's fault.

I would tend to agree if we take this a strictly linen as the movies (old media) was brought about more due to social media (new media) that has expanded popularity of the trail, so it was more of a effect and not a cause. However humans work as a complex system where the movies (AWitW, Wild) and books (AWOL, Wild) that happened to come out to cash in in the expanded awareness of the trail at the time where people's awareness of the trail was being expanded.

So I don't think it's so simple to say, as the direct effect of the movies may be small, but the indirect effect may be much larger than one things, and we can also get into tipping point theory, where a little difference can throw the numbers much higher, so the movie may also be looked at with this consideration.

[Starchild]

Going further into the indirect effect of the movies, for many people the movie will be the only exposure to the trail that they know, till they meet a hiker, or thru hiker. So it seems like this has not added any hikers to the trail, but...

Even though the person may never hike it, or even hike at all, their awareness of thru hiking now exists and is something to talk about to the thru hiker when they meet one, or a potential one. This serves in encouragement and expanded support of the AT journey to the hikers they do meet. In my own life I've been bought drinks when they find out I thru hiked and they have only seen the movie - but want to talk about it.

[Venchka]

Please! Social Media! Send the newbies to the greatest thing in dirt. The Wonderful Fabulous AT.
Thank you!
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

I would tend to agree if we take this a strictly linen as the movies (old media) was brought about more due to social media (new media) that has expanded popularity of the trail, so it was more of a effect and not a cause. However humans work as a complex system where the movies (AWitW, Wild) and books (AWOL, Wild) that happened to come out to cash in in the expanded awareness of the trail at the time where people's awareness of the trail was being expanded.

So I don't think it's so simple to say, as the direct effect of the movies may be small, but the indirect effect may be much larger than one things, and we can also get into tipping point theory, where a little difference can throw the numbers much higher, so the movie may also be looked at with this consideration.

i get what youre saying, i dont necessarily agree, but i am going to point out that what you are saying and what the first post that brought the movie into this was saying are very different things. your position i am, we'll say, ambivalent towards. the flat out statement that was made that it is because of the movie, i am not.

[BuckeyeBill]

i get what youre saying, i dont necessarily agree, but i am going to point out that what you are saying and what the first post that brought the movie into this was saying are very different things. your position i am, we'll say, ambivalent towards. the flat out statement that was made that it is because of the movie, i am not.

I never said it was the "Star Wars" of hiking movies. Neither was "Wild." But they did bring attention to the two trails, to some that had no clue they even existed. I have met a lot of people that told me they never heard of the AT until they heard about and/or saw the movie. You say the quote from the ATC is "a projection that never came to pass, for better or worse." If your statement is true, explain why Baxter State Park started requiring limited numbers of permits and why the ATC request you register your start date? One word Overcrowding. So if the numbers from the past two years have led to overcrowding, where did the people come from? Maybe those 8 rich elderly ladies told their grandchildren, who told their cousins. I don't throw all of the blame on movies, but we all need to do something before you need a thru-hiker's or section hiker's permit to just be on trail. What if they said next year that in order to be a thru-hiker you had to have documented evidence of previous experience as a hiker with a minimum of 500 miles. What if you had to past a test on LNT, rules and regulations of all the parks you are going to pass through, have a wilderness First-Aid certification and a letter from you doctor that states your heath is OK enough to be on the trail. I hope this never happens, but we have already heard just this past week about a hiker in distress and in need of rescue. I happen to know, not personally, that the cost of a wilderness rescue can be quite large.

Many of us can remember when you had maybe 8-10 people at a shelter in the evening, kicking back and telling lies. You had no cell phone and had to call your family collect from a pay phone while in a town to resupply, to let them know you were OK. There was a day when you told your friends you were going to walk from northern Georgia to the middle of Maine and they were ready to have you committed. Now you tell you are going to do the same thing and they just look at you like your stupid. Same thing happens when you say you are walking from the Mexican border into Canada. Today you just have a lot more people that wish you luck and offer advice.

Since I joined this forum, I have seen a rise in the number of people trying a thru-hike. Then over the past couple of years, it has risen to all new record numbers. Of course we all know that the odds are not in their favor of completing. We now need to obtain three different permits to thru-hike the trail. Are more permits in our future? Who knows. Some clubs even charge a fee to use their shelters. I don't begrudge any of them. With the number of people hitting the trails today they have to do something to prevent overcrowding and offset the cost of maintaining a trail.

To Wayne, I don't do social media. I have a FB account only to keep track of my kids and grandchildren. Who gives a d*mn how many times I go take a c**p? Never did a selfie. Never made a video. Isn't a twitter the thing that butterflies do? There are some great apps for the hiker today, but an app won't walk for you. It won't increase your common sense. It won't cook your meals. It may tell you where you are and where you want to go, but if don't know how to read a map, will you know there is a 500 foot rise in altitude over the next half mile, between where you are and where you want to be? YMMV and HYOH my friends.

[Starchild]

.... Isn't a twitter the thing that butterflies do? ...

That would be flutter

[BuckeyeBill]

That would be flutter

Thank you.

[TNhiker]

To Wayne, I don't do social media.

actually you do...

this forum is a form of social media.....

[BuckeyeBill]

actually you do...

this forum is a form of social media.....

d*?*it you got me there.